Is Southgate underrated by the CAF?

[giorno]

He had less tools to work with 2018 so understood the counter-attacking gameplan. I didn't say England were better than Croatia, but it was fairly rudimental at times and good managers get better ball retention out of their teams.

At international level, in a world cup semifinal, against that type of opponent? Can't think of one honestly. Even France didn't really do any better in that regard in the final. They got insanely lucky in the first half and then Croatia ran out of gas

But the pattern running through those tournaments, and again at the World Cup and at the Euros, was England's broken football. They were outplayed for large parts of the games against Slovakia and Switzerland in 2024, USA in 2022, Scotland and Denmark in 2021. That was not because the opposition were sporting world-class central midfielders.

So, the second group game in Qatar, the second group game at Euro 2021(England dominated Denmark). Two games in 3 tournaments doesn't really scream "broken football". These last Euros were a different matter altogether, granted. England were a disjointed mess throughout

 

[El Zoido]

England have won 1 trophy in their history. Maybe they should calm down with their expectations

What expectations? Doesn’t matter if they lose in the final or go out in the group stages, the result is still that they won nothing. It’s the same thing.

 

[Bepi]

I actually don't buy in to the narrative that he played awful, boring football. Sure, we didn't fly at teams like big Ange does at Tottenham but it was hardly Simeone. I'd say style wise it was middle of the road and reasonably well balanced.

My big issues with Southgate are that he himself is boring, and his him game management is poor. I feel like in International football you can cope with being a mood hoover because you can go weeks / months without being heard from, and the players have minimal interaction. I think in club football it would get old very, very quickly.

Summary - Nice guy, steady guy, nice human, good with the media, boring and dreadful in game decisions.

It's a hard pass for me as Utd manager but I think he's decent for international.

This post (and mostly the part here bolded) is food for thought if we want to discuss where football is going as a sport, entertainment or a mix of both (80/20… 50/50… 20/80?) and what we are entitled to expect as fans.

 

[Red Star One]

England have won 1 trophy in their history. Maybe they should calm down with their expectations

Yes but the expectations still should be trophies if their league is comfortably the best in the world and they have easily top3 talent pool in the world for the last decade or two. Some would say on paper England are the best in the world. I actually respect that the English fully expect their team to win the Euros or World Cups even if their historical tally is terrible compared to other powerhouses. It’s stupid to settle for “at least we get a semi each time it’s ok” with such players

 

[Gio]

At international level, in a world cup semifinal, against that type of opponent? Can't think of one honestly. Even France didn't really do any better in that regard in the final. They got insanely lucky in the first half and then Croatia ran out of gas


So, the second group game in Qatar, the second group game at Euro 2021(England dominated Denmark). Two games in 3 tournaments doesn't really scream "broken football". These last Euros were a different matter altogether, granted. England were a disjointed mess throughout

Well if you are including 2018 then take your pick from the Croatia, Colombia and Belgium games.

 

[giorno]

Well if you are including 2018 then take your pick from the Croatia, Colombia and Belgium games.

the Henderson-Dele-Lingard midfield. We've already gone over Croatia, the Belgium games were both dead rubbers, and I don't remember England particularly struggling to deal with Colombia. Sure their attack was nonexistent, but so was Colombia's. It was also their first KO game on the heels of Iceland in France...

In general, that was a team that played very much to its strenghts, and fairly well at that. It was also just extremely limited

 

[Samid]

Kane misses him:

 

[Robbie Boy]

I no longer have to live in fear when a Southgate thread is bumped.

 

[tenpoless]

I have forgotten about him. Phew..... I thought he was going to replace Ten Hag

 

[fergiewherearethou]

He was very underrated.
Best results that England had since 1996 and the fans still complain. Everybody thinks England is entitled to win major trophies but it just doesn't happen so easily.
The way the national side played wasn't pretty and the general opinion is that England had a golden generation but 2 euro finals and a WC semi final are very good results.
Southgate just did not have the pedigree at club level to impress for England regardless of what he did.

If Capello achieved results similar to Southgate he would of been remembered as one of the greats. It is just a perception thing rather than reality.

 

[Red Rash]

He was very underrated.
Best results that England had since 1996 and the fans still complain. Everybody thinks England is entitled to win major trophies but it just doesn't happen so easily.
The way the national side played wasn't pretty and the general opinion is that England had a golden generation but 2 euro finals and a WC semi final are very good results.
Southgate just did not have the pedigree at club level to impress for England regardless of what he did.

If Capello achieved results similar to Southgate he would of been remembered as one of the greats. It is just a perception thing rather than reality.

Yea in retrospect not he can't be United manager for the moment he was ok. I don't think anything spectacular and considering the England squad you can argue the team made him look better than he was.

But he is just such a boring and conservative manager watching United under him would have been joyless.

 

[VanTastic_]

He was very underrated.
Best results that England had since 1996 and the fans still complain. Everybody thinks England is entitled to win major trophies but it just doesn't happen so easily.
The way the national side played wasn't pretty and the general opinion is that England had a golden generation but 2 euro finals and a WC semi final are very good results.
Southgate just did not have the pedigree at club level to impress for England regardless of what he did.

If Capello achieved results similar to Southgate he would of been remembered as one of the greats. It is just a perception thing rather than reality.

You can't play the kind of football Southgate was playing without winning anything IMO, especially since he had a Top 2-3 squad in every tournament he participated in.
As for if he was over/underrated, only time can tell. If Tuchel goes on and wins a Euro/WC, then there will be a lot of what ifs in regard of what could have been had the Englidh FA appointed Tuchel or someone of his ilk way before instead of sticking to their guns.

Anyways, as a lot of people have pointed I'm just glad to no longer have heart palpitations whenever his thread is bumped.

 

[Semper Fudge]

I no longer have to live in fear when a Southgate thread is bumped.

It really was a horrible time.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Yea in retrospect not he can't be United manager for the moment he was ok. I don't think anything spectacular and considering the England squad you can argue the team made him look better than he was.

But he is just such a boring and conservative manager watching United under him would have been joyless.

Never liked such a conservative style regardless of manager and I never wanted him at Utd. But he did good for England in comparison with his predecessors.
If he ever goes on and manages at club level, it remains to be seen how well will he do.

You can't play the kind of football Southgate was playing without winning anything IMO, especially since he had a Top 2-3 squad in every tournament he participated in.
As for if he was over/underrated, only time can tell. If Tuchel goes on and wins a Euro/WC, then there will be a lot of what ifs in regard of what could have been had the Englidh FA appointed Tuchel or someone of his ilk way before instead of sticking to their guns.

Anyways, as a lot of people have pointed I'm just glad to no longer have heart palpitations whenever his thread is bumped.

If Tuchel goes on and wins a trophy then Southgate will look worse, no doubt, but what if he doesn't, sometimes all it takes is 1 or 2 bad games at a tournament and it's all over.
We do not know the future, we just have to wait and see how Tuchel will do.

 

[The Firestarter]

Kane misses him:

Vibeland

 

[Hammondo]

He was very underrated.
Best results that England had since 1996 and the fans still complain. Everybody thinks England is entitled to win major trophies but it just doesn't happen so easily.
The way the national side played wasn't pretty and the general opinion is that England had a golden generation but 2 euro finals and a WC semi final are very good results.
Southgate just did not have the pedigree at club level to impress for England regardless of what he did.

If Capello achieved results similar to Southgate he would of been remembered as one of the greats. It is just a perception thing rather than reality.

Beating no good teams, we were lucky.

 

[groovyalbert]

No, but I do think England will end up missing him more than they think.

Seems like a fair tournament manager, wouldn't want him guiding my team throughout a whole season.

 

[groovyalbert]

Beating no good teams, we were lucky.

Prior to that England had been knocked out tournaments by Iceland, failed to get out of a WC group in 2014, not qualify for Euro 2008...

Southgate massively improved England's cup fortune and I wouldn't include Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Croatia, Senegal, Colombia or Sweden as "no good teams"

Could also add his Nations League wins too

 

[Hammondo]

Prior to that England had been knocked out tournaments by Iceland, failed to get out of a WC group in 2014, not qualify for Euro 2008...

Southgate massively improved England's cup fortune and I wouldn't include Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Croatia, Senegal, Colombia or Sweden as "no good teams"

Could also add his Nations League wins too

None of them were good though.

He did a good job of getting rid of the previous generation we were horribly holding onto, I absolutely give him that.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Prior to that England had been knocked out tournaments by Iceland, failed to get out of a WC group in 2014, not qualify for Euro 2008...

Southgate massively improved England's cup fortune and I wouldn't include Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Croatia, Senegal, Colombia or Sweden as "no good teams"

Could also add his Nations League wins too

I mean he also came into the job right when a huge swath of English talent was coming up as well, and he played not to lose the vast majority of his time in charge.

 

[groovyalbert]

I mean he also came into the job right when a huge swath of English talent was coming up as well, and he played not to lose the vast majority of his time in charge.

England have burned through multiple "Golden Generations" arguably better than what Southgate had to work with without getting anywhere near as far as Southgate did in in tournaments.

None of them were good though.

He did a good job of getting rid of the previous generation we were horribly holding onto, I absolutely give him that.

Netherlands were touted as tournament favourites at that point, Croatia had been to a WC final then were v competitive the following WC.... They may not be the best sides, bit these are all good respective international tournament sides.


Southgate largely played abysmal football but his results can't be sniffed at for a side like England.

 

[Trequarista10]

He's definitely the luckiest Englnd manager. His record is unquestionably inflated by some favourable draws.

However he was consistent and must be given some credit for the results. It seems a calm manager who created a good atmosphere is what the team needed at the time.

Tactically he was blatantly poor and he was ultimately exposed against good teams. Early on, this could be put down to the lack of strength of the squad. However the last couple years he had a stacked squad and didn't know what to do with it.

Underrated/overrated are stupid terms. He did a good job, he is a limited manager with some strengths and weaknesses. If he took over a PL side I think he'd struggle and last less than 12 months. And yet he was a better England manager than Capello, Hodgson, Sven etc, despite each of them far superior managers overall. He was the right personality at the right time. Stayed on two years too long.

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

He's definitely the luckiest Englnd manager. His record is unquestionably inflated by some favourable draws.

However he was consistent and must be given some credit for the results. It seems a calm manager who created a good atmosphere is what the team needed at the time.

Tactically he was blatantly poor and he was ultimately exposed against good teams. Early on, this could be put down to the lack of strength of the squad. However the last couple years he had a stacked squad and didn't know what to do with it.

Underrated/overrated are stupid terms. He did a good job, he is a limited manager with some strengths and weaknesses. If he took over a PL side I think he'd struggle and last less than 12 months. And yet he was a better England manager than Capello, Hodgson, Sven etc, despite each of them far superior managers overall. He was the right personality at the right time. Stayed on two years too long.

Ole vs Southgate debate would be fun.