Is Southgate underrated by the CAF?

Loon said:
Somebody has seen the link with Ashworth and Southgate and made 5.
Click to expand...

It's what we all hope, yeah.

It makes no sense whatsoever for United to go for Southgate.

It makes more sense for United to stick with ETH than to go for Southgate (and it doesn't make that much sense to stick with ETH either).

The only possible argument for Southgate is that he has "gate" in his name already.

If hiring him turns out to be a failure or fiasco (and not least if there's something positively fishy about him, say that it turns out he's Hitler's grandson), the media can't possibly use the term "Southgategate" - because that would be ridiculous.
 
duffer said:
Although it would be hilarious to see Southgate appointed, I'm not taking the piss when I say that I can see a reason that the new hierarchy might want someone like Southgate (and specifically Southgate given his history with your new boss).
Click to expand...

Well, yeah - there it is.
 
Ludens the Red said:
If the worse does happen and he is actually appointed. At the very least we can feel comfortable knowing the experiment wont last very long. He’d struggle to see out a season.
Click to expand...

Indeed. The "who replaces Southgate" thread will be up and running before the end of August.
 
Matt Varnish said:
If Southgate is our only option after Ten Hag, I'd rather keep Ten Hag
Click to expand...

Ten Hag has done very little to convince me.

But in a hypothetical scenario where competent people above him in the structure decide that it's better to give him a chance as a coach (not a "manager", not as someone with any heavy input on player recruitment and long-term strategy)...rather than hiring a new coach, and ETH is fine with this...yes, okay.

I'd rather that than hiring Southgate as either a "manager" (that would be horrible, because we absolutely need to move away from that "model") or as a "head coach" (because...what the feck has he ever done in that regard to inspire anyone with confidence? The consensus on him is hardly that he's made the most of the players available to him).
 
Chesterlestreet said:
It's what we all hope, yeah.

It makes no sense whatsoever for United to go for Southgate.

It makes more sense for United to stick with ETH than to go for Southgate (and it doesn't make that much sense to stick with ETH either).

The only possible argument for Southgate is that he has "gate" in his name already.

If hiring him turns out to be a failure or fiasco (and not least if there's something positively fishy about him, say that it turns out he's Hitler's grandson), the media can't possibly use the term "Southgategate" - because that would be ridiculous.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
OP's question is the wrong one. For me it should be "Is Gareth Southgate the most overrated manager on the planet?". To which the answer could very well be yes.

He has a reputation built solely on England's supposed improvement in tournaments. But if you actually scratch beneath the surface of that record, it really isn't what it is cracked up to be.

If my memory serves me right, in 3 tournaments England have played top tier opposition 7 times.

Belgium x2, Croatia x2, Germany, Italy and France.

Southgate won 2 of these games, and lost 5. The two wins were a group game against Croatia, and a knockout game against the worst Germany team in 50 years.

Had he have lost any other games against mid level opposition on route to latter stages of tournaments, he would have rightly been hung out to dry by the UK media.

And not only that, his role at England involves zero squad building or coaching really. It is simply to assemble an 11 from the superstars that are served up on a platter. And based on the talent we have at our disposal, the football is usually awful.

It blows my mind that he is being linked with United.
 
sammyhol said:
OP's question is the wrong one. For me it should be "Is Gareth Southgate the most overrated manager on the planet?". To which the answer could very well be yes.

He has a reputation built solely on England's supposed improvement in tournaments. But if you actually scratch beneath the surface of that record, it really isn't what it is cracked up to be.

If my memory serves me right, in 3 tournaments England have played top tier opposition 7 times.

Belgium x2, Croatia x2, Germany, Italy and France.

Southgate won 2 of these games, and lost 5. The two wins were a group game against Croatia, and a knockout game against the worst Germany team in 50 years.

Had he have lost any other games against mid level opposition on route to latter stages of tournaments, he would have rightly been hung out to dry by the UK media.

And not only that, his role at England involves zero squad building or coaching really. It is simply to assemble an 11 from the superstars that are served up on a platter. And based on the talent we have at our disposal, the football is usually awful.

It blows my mind that he is being linked with United.
Click to expand...

All that is true, but he wears three piece suits and is proper British innit?
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Ten Hag has done very little to convince me.

But in a hypothetical scenario where competent people above him in the structure decide that it's better to give him a chance as a coach (not a "manager", not as someone with any heavy input on player recruitment and long-term strategy)...rather than hiring a new coach, and ETH is fine with this...yes, okay.

I'd rather that than hiring Southgate as either a "manager" (that would be horrible, because we absolutely need to move away from that "model") or as a "head coach" (because...what the feck has he ever done in that regard to inspire anyone with confidence? The consensus on him is hardly that he's made the most of the players available to him).
Click to expand...
This is why I take comfort it can't be true. I would actually fear this outcome in the old setup - who better for the Glazers to whack at the helm as a 'manager', than a yes man who wants to keep people happy and would jump at the chance to manage Luton, let alone United, with next to zero pedigree as a hands on head coach.
 
The brave facing on it if we did appoint Southgate would be a reminder of the Moyes news.

He's got less of a pedigree then Moyes had and coasting through a few tournaments that have never been lower standard with our best crop of talent in 30 years doesn't change that.
 
Sandikan said:
The brave facing on it if we did appoint Southgate would be a reminder of the Moyes news.

He's got less of a pedigree then Moyes had and coasting through a few tournaments that have never been lower standard with our best crop of talent in 30 years doesn't change that.
Click to expand...
His record against top 10 teams with England is terrible. The only positive I hear is that he would introduce a good culture, there has not been anyone claim he is good tactically.

It would be seriously depressing if he was appointed.
 
Keanes Magic Hat said:
His record against top 10 teams with England is terrible. The only positive I hear is that he would introduce a good culture, there has not been anyone claim he is good tactically.

It would be seriously depressing if he was appointed.
Click to expand...

It just would make no sense on any level.

We either need someone with the experience of big clubs and winning, or what we thought Ten Hag would be, huge potential to become the best manager of the future.

A middle of the road guy who moved into international management fairly early doesn't tick any box.
 
If the rumor is any true that INEOS is considering Southgate for Man Utd position, INEOS's management approach and expertise are the more concerning part for me.

Southgate has zero proven record of managing club success, also his record with national team is really up to debate how successful it is, taken he pretty much enjoy a generation of talents produced by the EPL while zero trophy brought in. INEOS even entertained for such idea is baffling .

Likewise, Porter and De Zerbi both should not be considered. If they ever brought Brighton top 4 then I could have given them benefit of the doubt , but the truth is their profiles are too light to manage top club at this point, no matter how brilliant they managed to deliver one or two games at a time facing top teams.
 
afatzp said:
If the rumor is any true that INEOS is considering Southgate for Man Utd position, INEOS's management approach and expertise are the more concerning part for me.

Southgate has zero proven record of managing club success, also his record with national team is really up to debate how successful it is, taken he pretty much enjoy a generation of talents produced by the EPL while zero trophy brought in. INEOS even entertained for such idea is baffling .

Likewise, Porter and De Zerbi both should not be considered. If they ever brought Brighton top 4 then I could have given them benefit of the doubt , but the truth is their profiles are too light to manage top club at this point, no matter how brilliant they managed to deliver one or two games at a time facing top teams.
Click to expand...
There's levels though.

Potter and De Zerbi makes sense if you take phase 1 of INEOS' plan to hire a head coach who they think will be able to make us competitive for the CL but likely isn't good enough to win the PL/CL (especially if they don't think their No1 target is available) because they have actual coaching experience across different leagues with relative success. Part of me hopes to see Potter back at a bigger club and I don't think he'd be the disaster people think he is, especially thinking of what we're seeing now with Poch at Chelsea, because he represents how football managers should be selected - grafted his arse off in minor Swedish leagues, did well, grafted in the lower English leagues, did well, got the Brighton job, did well, and then did badly at Chelsea. All the while, United were hiring Ole, Chelsea had Frank, Gerrard went in at Villa, Arteta at Arsenal...he obviously doesn't have the 'name' against them but he's got a shit load more actual coaching experience. Maybe he's not quite good enough for a team who wants to win the league but I can see him returning to the PL and doing well again.
 
These Southgate-to-United links are giving me flashbacks to 2018, 2020 and 2021 "Florentino is a big fan of Löw" :lol:

Thank the gods that never happened. Lopatego was bad enough
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
He insisted on using Maguire when everyone was giving him dog’s abuse, even United fans.

He kept benching Sancho even when he was at Dortmund. Now we see the guy’s nature at United.

People mocked him for Bellingham’s performance in the last World Cup. Now the boy is showing his class at Real.

May be, just may be, he is a better manager than the CAF gives him credit for?
Click to expand...
Clearly
 
He's done reasonably in his role. In a specific scenario, at international level, with a lot of mouldable players and a fairly unchallenging environment protected by the FA he's created an atmosphere where players seem to want to play, got some very good draws in tournaments and to be fair he's got some decent results.

But is that body of work anything that suggests he'd be a top club manager? Not remotely. He ought to be a better manager than he was at Middlesbrough, it would be a worry if you'd been managing that long and not improved - but it's a completely different type of job he's been doing. It doesn't mean he's going to transition well to a different scenario.

Wouldn't be for me, I think it goes without saying he's not fit for a top job. Would I even look at him as a lower tier PL club? I doubt it, I'd go for someone with more gravitas at club level.
 
Hes played a top 10 ranked side 24 times and won 4.

Anyone actually rating him has to be a troll.
 
Sir Erik ten Hag said:
People mocked him for Bellingham’s performance in the last World Cup. Now the boy is showing his class at Real.
Click to expand...
Literally never happened. What he was mocked for, was not using Bellingham when he was ready at the euros.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
There's levels though.

Potter and De Zerbi makes sense if you take phase 1 of INEOS' plan to hire a head coach who they think will be able to make us competitive for the CL but likely isn't good enough to win the PL/CL (especially if they don't think their No1 target is available) because they have actual coaching experience across different leagues with relative success. Part of me hopes to see Potter back at a bigger club and I don't think he'd be the disaster people think he is, especially thinking of what we're seeing now with Poch at Chelsea, because he represents how football managers should be selected - grafted his arse off in minor Swedish leagues, did well, grafted in the lower English leagues, did well, got the Brighton job, did well, and then did badly at Chelsea. All the while, United were hiring Ole, Chelsea had Frank, Gerrard went in at Villa, Arteta at Arsenal...he obviously doesn't have the 'name' against them but he's got a shit load more actual coaching experience. Maybe he's not quite good enough for a team who wants to win the league but I can see him returning to the PL and doing well again.
Click to expand...
I admire Potter that he has climbed up the ladder to get where he is , but his next club should be Tottenham / Villa / West Ham instead of Man Utd . He may have all the knowledge that a top coach needs , but he could easily lose the dressing room taken he has no top club success experience or halo from his player era. Poch on the other hand elevated Tottenham into a regular top 4 club at his watch and managed PSG for 1.5 years , but still subpar on his Chelsea job. That really tells how difficult to manage a top club nowadays.

I think Nagelsmann would be a approachable target , a much better choice than Southgate anyway. His contract with Germany is up to Euro cup, with top club experience and won title, and speak fluent English , French and German. Well built profile for EPL top club job.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It isn't because Italy were hands down the best team in THAT tournament. England did very well to take them to penalties.
Click to expand...

Spain were better. Morata simply misses too many chances. If Spain had David Villa instead of Alvaro Morata they cruise through the semi and the final.
 
Keanes Magic Hat said:
His record against top 10 teams with England is terrible. The only positive I hear is that he would introduce a good culture, there has not been anyone claim he is good tactically.

It would be seriously depressing if he was appointed.
Click to expand...

He probably won't even be able to do that at club as he will be around the players all the time, it's pretty easy to be chill and good vibes when you only have them for a week and then they're someone else's problem, or you are out of the country for weeks at a time with no distractions.

I've been waiting about 6 years to see him gone from England manager, if he ends up moving on to my club from there I'm going to blow a gasket. I think I would rather have every current Premiere league manager bar maybe Wilder than him.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
No they were not. They were superior to England by far in midfield and had a world class center defensive unit behind that midfield. The idea England could have easily bested them is fanciful in the extreme.
Click to expand...

England didn't need to control the game in possession though. If they went 2-0 up they weren't losing that game. They had one shot in the first half. If they killed it early they'd have won.

I don't think Italy were a bad or terrible team, clearly not as they won it, but the game from 1-0 was set up for England to win as they were on a high, playing decent enough football with some good performances and they were at home. It was a perfect combination of factors for an international side really.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.