He's England's Ole for all pros and cons.
Is Southgate underrated by the CAF?
- Thread starter Sir Erik ten Hag
- Start date
Hope Glen Johnson has a word with Liverpool to talk to Southgate about replacing Klopp like he’s saying. Means he won’t join us
Statically Gareth Southgate is the second most successful England manager in history in terms of wins.
He'll never get the credit that he deserves, though.
He could win the European Championships, World Cup, European Championships and World Cup, back-to-back and there are some people who would say "England won those four tournaments in spite of Gareth Southgate, not because of him."
Maybe it's it's personality. Perhaps if he was a "cheeky chappy" like Venables or Keegan he might receive more kudos.
A big part of me thinks it's political. We all know that Gareth Southgate leans to the left. He believes in fighting political, racial and social injustices... and the majority of England usually votes Conservative.
Before anyone ridicules the suggestion. It wasn't that long ago that England fans were booing the England team for taking the knee.
It wasn't that long ago that Southgate was being lambasted by a certain section of England fans because he was "woke"? (People who weaponise that word are racists)
The dislike towards Gareth Southgate simply cannot be football related. Look at his stats. It's second only to Alf Ramsey.
It can't be football related, unless England fans are truly stupid and they want Southgate to unleash the "attacking talent" that England have and go with a 2-2-6 system.
"Ridicule is the tribute given to the genius from the mediocrities" ~ Oscar Wilde
He'll never get the credit that he deserves, though.
He could win the European Championships, World Cup, European Championships and World Cup, back-to-back and there are some people who would say "England won those four tournaments in spite of Gareth Southgate, not because of him."
Maybe it's it's personality. Perhaps if he was a "cheeky chappy" like Venables or Keegan he might receive more kudos.
A big part of me thinks it's political. We all know that Gareth Southgate leans to the left. He believes in fighting political, racial and social injustices... and the majority of England usually votes Conservative.
Before anyone ridicules the suggestion. It wasn't that long ago that England fans were booing the England team for taking the knee.
It wasn't that long ago that Southgate was being lambasted by a certain section of England fans because he was "woke"? (People who weaponise that word are racists)
The dislike towards Gareth Southgate simply cannot be football related. Look at his stats. It's second only to Alf Ramsey.
It can't be football related, unless England fans are truly stupid and they want Southgate to unleash the "attacking talent" that England have and go with a 2-2-6 system.
"Ridicule is the tribute given to the genius from the mediocrities" ~ Oscar Wilde
Coach/Manager | Term | P | W | D | L | F | A | GD | FTS | CS | FAv | AAv | Pts% | W/L |
| F.A. Selection | 1872-1887 | 31 | 14 | 5 | 12 | 97 | 61 | +36 | 4 | 8 | 3.129 | 1.968 | 53.2 | +2 |
| International Select Committee | 1888-1939 | 195 | 124 | 32 | 39 | 577 | 232 | +345 | 16 | 60 | 2.959 | 1.19 | 71.8 | +85 |
| Walter Winterbottom (ISC) | 1946-1963 | 139 | 78 | 33 | 28 | 383 | 196 | +187 | 17 | 34 | 2.755 | 1.41 | 68.0 | +50 |
| Alf Ramsey | 1963-1974 | 113 | 69 | 27 | 17 | 224 | 98 | +126 | 19 | 49 | 1.982 | 0.867 | 73.0 | +52 |
| Joe Mercer | 1974 | 7 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 9 | 7 | +2 | 1 | 3 | 1.286 | 1.00 | 64.3 | +2 |
| Don Revie | 1974-1977 | 29 | 14 | 8 | 7 | 49 | 25 | +24 | 8 | 11 | 1.69 | 0.862 | 62.1 | +7 |
| Ron Greenwood | 1977-1982 | 55 | 33 | 12 | 10 | 93 | 40 | +53 | 10 | 28 | 1.691 | 0.727 | 70.9 | +23 |
| Bobby Robson | 1982-1990 | 95 | 47 | 30 | 18 | 154 | 60 | +94 | 27 | 54 | 1.621 | 0.632 | 65.3 | +29 |
| Graham Taylor | 1990-1993 | 38 | 18 | 13 | 7 | 62 | 32 | +30 | 7 | 16 | 1.632 | 0.842 | 64.5 | +11 |
| Terry Venables | 1994-1996 | 24 | 11 | 12 | 1 | 35 | 13 | +22 | 7 | 15 | 1.458 | 0.542 | 70.8 | +10 |
| Glenn Hoddle | 1996-1999 | 28 | 17 | 6 | 5 | 42 | 13 | +29 | 7 | 19 | 1.50 | 0.464 | 71.4 | +12 |
| Howard Wilkinson | 1999, 2000 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 2 | -2 | 2 | 1 | 0.00 | 1.00 | 25.0 | -1 |
| Kevin Keegan | 1999-2000 | 18 | 7 | 7 | 4 | 26 | 15 | +11 | 5 | 7 | 1.444 | 0.833 | 58.3 | +3 |
| Peter Taylor | 2000-2001 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | -1 | 1 | 0 | 0.00 | 1.00 | 00.0 | -1 |
| Sven-Göran Eriksson | 2001-2006 | 67 | 40 | 17 | 10 | 128 | 61 | +67 | 8 | 26 | 1.91 | 0.91 | 72.3 | +30 |
| Steve McClaren | 2006-2007 | 18 | 9 | 4 | 5 | 32 | 12 | +20 | 4 | 11 | 1.778 | 0.667 | 61.1 | +4 |
| Fabio Capello | 2008-2011 | 42 | 28 | 8 | 6 | 89 | 35 | +54 | 6 | 16 | 2.119 | 0.833 | 76.2 | +22 |
| Stuart Pearce | 2012 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | -1 | 0 | 0 | 2.00 | 3.00 | 00.0 | -1 |
| Roy Hodgson | 2012-2016 | 56 | 33 | 15 | 8 | 109 | 44 | +65 | 9 | 27 | 1.946 | 0.786 | 72.3 | +25 |
| Sam Allardyce | 2016 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | +1 | 0 | 1 | 1.00 | 0.00 | 100 | +1 |
| Gareth Southgate | 2016-2024 | 93 | 57 | 21 | 15 | 202 | 65 | +137 | 18 | 50 | 2.172 | 0.699 | 72.6 | +42 |
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Love your take!
I get why people point to Southgate's statistics but it really is widely skewed by the immense wealth of talent throughout the squad.
Take for instance Harry Kane. He came up in 2015 and since scored 62 goals, 2 golden boots, single handedly got England through 2 qualifications as most productive player, heads a few other stats in those races. Take him out and Southgate wins and goals for plummet by 25%.
Just a look at the 2019 squad next to Harry. Chillwell, Alexander Arnold, Walker, Rose, trippier, Dier, Mings, Stones. And thats just the defence. Midfield: Rice, Barkley, Henderson, Maddison, Mount, Delph, Ward Prowse as midfield choice.
I watched the France game and it looked like a Lampard set up Chelsea. Good players doing things on their own. Out of form Foden on the left when in form Rahsford on the bench. Defensively it looked very shaky every time les bleu came forward. Individual quality driving England attacks.
It's a nice guy, good for PR but the England quality you have now is just criminal not putting a top coach with them.
Nah I am left and I think he's a nice enough guy but not a good manager and got lucky to have a better squad than others previous/they were not good either.
This means absolutely nothing because most of it hinges on the players each manager had at their time .
Southgate has one of the best squads ever by an england team and still manages to be mediocre in many instances.
Total wins is not meaningful without accounting for games played, either ppg or win %. You could argue even those don't matter in knockout competitions, and that loss % is the only stat that matters. His record is roughly on par with previous managers of the last 30 years.
It’s not the post that this thread deserved, and nor is it the post this thread needed. Thank you The Batman!
I’m not English and neither am I young, but if there is one thing that has never changed looking from the outside in, it’s that there is nowhere such a consistent mass psychosis against any national coach as there is in England. Funnily, whereas Southgate gets slated as ‘proven his level’ in club football, England has had an unusual amount of NT coaches who had ‘proven their level’ with club success (Revie, Robson, Taylor, Venables, Keegan, Eriksson, Capello) compared to most other NTs. Some of the exceptions to this rule did better than their more renowned counterparts (Greenwood, Hoddle), not surprising given that everyone with a little knowledge knows that coaching a NT and managing a club team are two entirely different propositions, and success at one level is a fairly weak predictor of success on the other.
What has always been consistent, looking from the outside, are the narratives. It has always been ‘a useless/found-out/has-been/vegetable’ coach ‘underachieving criminally’ with ‘some of the worlds best players’ sprinkled in with one or two ‘traitors to the flag’.
What has always been consistent, looking from the outside, are the narratives. It has always been ‘a useless/found-out/has-been/vegetable’ coach ‘underachieving criminally’ with ‘some of the worlds best players’ sprinkled in with one or two ‘traitors to the flag’.
You've quoted and bolded Oscar Wilde for the chef's kiss?
Southgate's been performing to par based on the talent level at his disposal and the opponents faced. The notable thing is he's done so consistently through 3 tournaments, which is not at all a common occurrence. He's getting tournament #4, this is probably going to be it if they don't win. Possibly even if they do win
Yeah these last two games may have only been friendlies but certainly shows up our deficiencies
I dunno about par, his record against top 10 opposition given the talent he has is terrible. He has had unbelievably kind draws in tournaments and has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. His approach to ET against Italy was pretty pathetic the game was England's if they made subs and went fir it.
Next level!
It's not about the football for me, I just don't want a woke, Marxist-Leninist Trotskyite like Gareth Southgate anywhere near the United job.
We also tend to just not beat any good teams, we farm the weaker teams.
I really hope you are joking.
Read batman's post.
Ole is better then Southgate
Even Southgate is better than Southgate. That’s how bad Southgate is.
Both relegated a team and somehow ended up at a way bigger job than they were qualified to get based on previous achievements. Both also did well enought with the talented squads they had to not be labeled a failure but a better manager could likely have done more with those squads.
Can you elaborate on this? I’m not sure what you mean.
hahaha, why did the conversation suddenly change to that?
The English media have their priorities all wrong.
They crucify England for losing friendlies but run the "they've done the country proud" narrative when they bomb out of games that actually matter.
They crucify England for losing friendlies but run the "they've done the country proud" narrative when they bomb out of games that actually matter.
Read batman's post.
They’re suggesting it’s good he’s woke, can you tell me why it’s bad?
Also can you explain why he is the things you listed in your post? Batman doesn’t cover that.
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I think it’s just poking fun at the utter nonsense of bringing in Southgate’s supposed wokeness as a factor in how people evaluate him as a coach.
I hope so
Jesus......
Sarcasm detector is off on my end, I have a 6 week old baby and deserve a break.
No worries mate....Sarcasm detector is off on my end, I have a 6 week old baby and deserve a break.
Is TheBatman Southgate? That post is legendary. Completely ignores that the main ingredient of success is the squad at their disposal. Southgate has been carried by a massively talented squad, alongside a few great players, some nice tournament draws, and finally with the fact there’s not a huge amount of good teams in world football right now.
Name one game Southgate played against a superior team that he won? Ole did that plenty of times
He is, but it's a very fecking low bar.
I would 100% take Ole back over Southgate, though. Southgate would be an absolutely woeful appointment.
I am not saying that Ole is good enough to manage United however Southgate makes Ole look like Klopp.
Oh I agree he's better, but the bar is low there.
As I said; if it's a choice between the two, I easily pick Ole. Ole done a passable job in some ways, whereas I feel that Southgate would be Moyes all over again.