Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?

SirMonteyne said:
His style of play is already superior to that of many teams and managers from any era. However, if he were better prepared or made tactical maneuvers in his CL losses, he would have won many more titles. Again, I am extremely biased, so my brain tries to find flaws in him to defend SAF's greatness.
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You can also thank Klopp if Pep isn’t considered the greatest. If Liverpool don’t win the league Pep would have won 6-7? in a row. No argument at all if they would have done that.
 
Red the Bear said:
Is Armstrong still considered the greatest cyclist after all that happened?
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I feel like he's kinda forgotten now, after all that happened.

But tbf to him, he(Armstrong) wasn't the only one doping himself at the time, he was just a better cyclist as well then the others who also did it.
 
Red the Bear said:
Is Armstrong still considered the greatest cyclist after all that happened?
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He never was. Eddy Merckx was and still is, though he was also caught doping numerous times nobody seemed bothered back then.

Armstrong was one of the greats and still is, though his legacy is always going to be overshadowed by the doping scandal. It's exactly how Pep is for me.
 
Never was. Never will be. Could win 50 consecutive titles and it would not matter.
 
Iffin said:
So what else would he need on his CV to get you onboard?
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A clean record would be a start? For about 85% of his career he’s worked for clubs who are under investigation for financial doping or bribing referees. I wonder how he would have done without that help.
 
Pexbo said:
A clean record would be a start? For about 85% of his career he’s worked for clubs who are under investigation for financial doping or bribing referees. I wonder how he would have done without that help.
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Was going to write exactly this... weird how that's hard to understand when non Barcelona/City fans don't value his coaching career thus far.

There's been a question mark(as in very shady shit been happening) next to most of the teams he has managed.
 
Iffin said:
So what else would he need on his CV to get you onboard?
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Mate, on here you mustn't ever doubt the omnipotence of Fergie.
Whether it's Pep, Paisley, Zidane, Sacchi or anyone else you care to name this is Sir Alex's house.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Mate, on here you mustn't ever doubt the omnipotence of Fergie.
Whether it's Pep, Paisley, Zidane, Sacchi or anyone else you care to name this is Sir Alex's house.
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Understandable in a way
 
SirMonteyne said:
His style of play is already superior to that of many teams and managers from any era. However, if he were better prepared or made tactical maneuvers in his CL losses, he would have won many more titles. Again, I am extremely biased, so my brain tries to find flaws in him to defend SAF's greatness.
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So if what you say is true, shouldn’t SAF have won a lot more CLs if you believe he was technically better than PEP?
Say you want about PEP, not being a good tactician isn’t correct. His advantage is good teams and unlimited money lately. He still would have won more titles and CLs if he would have stayed on the continent. He will go down as the best in everyones opinion but united supporters when it’s all said and done. Right or wrong it’s just the way it is
 
njred said:
So if what you say is true, shouldn’t SAF have won a lot more CLs if you believe he was technically better than PEP?
Say you want about PEP, not being a good tactician isn’t correct. His advantage is good teams and unlimited money lately. He still would have won more titles and CLs if he would have stayed on the continent. He will go down as the best in everyones opinion but united supporters when it’s all said and done. Right or wrong it’s just the way it is
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The last few seasons Nett Spend stats disprove that.
 
njred said:
So if what you say is true, shouldn’t SAF have won a lot more CLs if you believe he was technically better than PEP?
Say you want about PEP, not being a good tactician isn’t correct. His advantage is good teams and unlimited money lately. He still would have won more titles and CLs if he would have stayed on the continent. He will go down as the best in everyones opinion but united supporters when it’s all said and done. Right or wrong it’s just the way it is
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“Lately”? Not saying he’s not a good manager but Barca squad was stacked and went to Bayern who were CL Champions…. then City.

I’ve got mates who support Liverpool, Everton and Newcastle, colleagues who support Liverpool and Everton, and family who support Villa and Liverpool (sister loved Dalglish and the rest is history) … a small survey perhaps but none of them think Pep > SAF, not one. And most of them can’t stand SAF.
 
Ok, “greatest” is an elastic term. Let me put it this way: I highly doubt that anyone else could have made any team as dominant in nearly all games they would play as Pep has done with his. He might not be able to work wonders with smaller teams (though he might), but he has set the standard for possession based football in the last 20 years and developed all the way. I don’t like his teams or his lack of values and judgement, but he’s an excellent manager
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Of course.
Ferguson did wonders for United and rightly is lauded for doing so.
He is a mix of Guardiola and Joe Mercer to all Reds.
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Sir Alex’s record speaks for itself, none of us have ever had to go on bitterbluemoon trying to sell his accomplishments.
 
Not really going to get much objectivity on this site, understandably. But he could be, he's quite brilliant. He knows how to manage players, clubs, and football teams.. he's a real coach. In different countries too.

But.. I always think what SAF did at Aberdeen was quite incredible, incredible. He then, obviously built on that, nearly two decades of top management. Don't forget St Mirren.

Would like to see Pep at a small, or mid-table club and see what he could do. I think it would be a good challenge for him.
 
Jeffthered said:
Not really going to get much objectivity on this site, understandably. But he could be, he's quite brilliant. He knows how to manage players, clubs, and football teams.. he's a real coach. In different countries too.

But.. I always think what SAF did at Aberdeen was quite incredible, incredible. He then, obviously built on that, nearly two decades of top management. Don't forget St Mirren.

Would like to see Pep at a small, or mid-table club and see what he could do. I think it would be a good challenge for him.
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Exactly. Aberdeen under Fergie broke the Old Firm duopoly and remain the most recent non-Old Firm team to win the league in Scotland. They also of course won the Cup Winners Cup by beating Real Madrid in the final. I don’t know how well Aberdeen were doing before Fergie became their manager but it’s a lot more impressive than anything Pep’s ever done.
 
thisisnottaken1 said:
Exactly. Aberdeen under Fergie broke the Old Firm duopoly and remain the most recent non-Old Firm team to win the league in Scotland. They also of course won the Cup Winners Cup by beating Real Madrid in the final. I don’t know how well Aberdeen were doing before Fergie became their manager but it’s a lot more impressive than anything Pep’s ever done.
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This.

Pep wouldn't even try as he'd never go to a club like Aberdeen in the first place. If he ever did, he'd just whine that he needs £500 million and Messi before he could achieve anything.
 
11101 said:
He never was. Eddy Merckx was and still is, though he was also caught doping numerous times nobody seemed bothered back then.

Armstrong was one of the greats and still is, though his legacy is always going to be overshadowed by the doping scandal. It's exactly how Pep is for me.
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Doping was never the main problem with Armstrong. Everyone knew that almost everyone was doping. It's what he did to people that went against him that makes him stand out as a supervillain. Pep's career is nothing like that.
 
Dec9003 said:
Sir Alex’s record speaks for itself, none of us have ever had to go on bitterbluemoon trying to sell his accomplishments.
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This is your safe space on this subject, BM is the same for City.
If there was such a thing as a neutral, civilised forum to talk football there would be an interesting debate to be had on this subject but to do so on a club forum would just result on a pile on by the majority so no point really.
 
Far from it. Its all nice and rosy when you always have best resources at your disposal. Never shown the ability to build a club in shambles(Klopp, Arteta).

Might be the greatest coach of all times but not the manager.
 
This thread is a perfect example of inferiority complex at a big club. Most small clubs know exactly what they are and while they are proud of what they achieve they don’t suggest themselves into believing that they’re more than they are - until they actually get there.

We, on the other hand, have too many fans without any patience who will moan every season we don’t win the league or CL and cry for new players all the time - while being completely unable to keep their personal feelings out of a discussion about football. If you believe we are the biggest club in the world or one of them then act like it and don’t deny what everyone else can see with their own eyes. Guardiola might not be the greatest ever, but despite his questionable morals he is a unique football tactician and strategic thinker. He has taken the best from Michels, Cruyff, and Bielsa to create some of the most dominant teams ever. I’m truly sorry to say this, but even though he’s a legend SAF were never a master strategist.

I hate what (blood)money have done to football including enabling Guardiola to basically pick his players freely, but to not acknowledge him as one of the best managers is just ridiculous.
 
Iffin said:
So what else would he need on his CV to get you onboard?
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His CV is tainted forever by managing City. It doesn't matter what he wins. I also remember his Catalan "activism", while shilling for Qatar. Human rights and all that stuff.

Brilliant and extraordinary manager/coach, no doubt. Forever tainted, no matter what he does.
 
Schmeichels pinky said:
This thread is a perfect example of inferiority complex at a big club. Most small clubs know exactly what they are and while they are proud of what they achieve they don’t suggest themselves into believing that they’re more than they are - until they actually get there.

We, on the other hand, have too many fans without any patience who will moan every season we don’t win the league or CL and cry for new players all the time - while being completely unable to keep their personal feelings out of a discussion about football. If you believe we are the biggest club in the world or one of them then act like it and don’t deny what everyone else can see with their own eyes. Guardiola might not be the greatest ever, but despite his questionable morals he is a unique football tactician and strategic thinker. He has taken the best from Michels, Cruyff, and Bielsa to create some of the most dominant teams ever. I’m truly sorry to say this, but even though he’s a legend SAF were never a master strategist.

I hate what (blood)money have done to football including enabling Guardiola to basically pick his players freely, but to not acknowledge him as one of the best managers is just ridiculous.
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This cannot be said in conjunction with the rest when Pep so hugely benefits from artificial/illegal setups and budgets; the question that has to then be put forward is what others in the conversation for top 3/5 would do with the same conditions, or he with theirs. It simply cannot be ignored or brushed under the rug.

Pep essentially resides in a bubble when it comes to this conversation and always will.
 
Unfortunately definetely. The same way Messi is the GOAT even if he only played for The strongest Barcelona ever ( to many the best team ever), PSG & Argentina. There might seem like a lack of a challenge, but ultimately he and Guardiola have won things & won things with a style.

I'd argue that his football has been so influential that football has almost become boring as a whole era has been built on his tactics alone.

The possesion, the inverted fullbacks, the need for a high press etc.

I think once he retires, football will return back to being more individualistic, which will lead to it being more jaw dropping the same way players like Zidane or Brazilian Ronaldo stood out from the crowd by almost looking like they were playing at their own tempo.

I even look at the differences in his Barcelona team to his City team - he basically rebuilt City with the tactics he tried to do with Ibrahimovic with Haaland but has a team of whole almost 4 CB's allowing the rest of the team to be as creative as possible to Haaland.

The tactics are magic & his coaching is even better - players like Rodri, a struggling Xavi, Iniesta, Walker, Ake, Stones, a struggling De Bruyne - all get this tremendous coaching where they turn in to almost the perfect player for their role, achieving legendary status.

Who would have picked Rodri over the legends of the past before he joined City? Now, people talk about him as one of the best and all rounded CDM ever.

He might have had the benefits of cheating referees at Barcelona, or financial doping at City - but we were arguably the biggest club financially in the world 2 decades ago and clubs looked at us the same way we now look at City only with it being multiplied heavily due to the world wide increase in the sport both commercially & financially.

If people say Guardiola isn't the best due to him having cheating referees at Barcelona & increased money at Man City - then the same could be said about Messi getting the benefit of cheating Barcelona referees & PSG being a heavily super financial team.

People talk like he flopped at Bayern - he didnt flop, he didnt win the CL - the same way Messi was bought to PSG to exactly that, help PSG win the CL.

Both are the GOAT. End of. Guardiola is the best ever manager & Messi is the best ever player.

Interestingly - the 2nd best would be SAF & Ronaldo.

The manager and player playing together is almost Ying & Yang.
 
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Fugeeface said:
His CV is tainted forever by managing City. It doesn't matter what he wins. I also remember his Catalan "activism", while shilling for Qatar. Human rights and all that stuff.

Brilliant and extraordinary manager/coach, no doubt. Forever tainted, no matter what he does.
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Not just City, the only clean club he managed was Bayern, and he disjt last long there.

Barca - blood bags, bribery and GOAT player.
City - 115, owners employing an active PL referree to ref in their county for lots of money, Mancini double wage Peps brother getting a club in Spain.
 
Greatest manager of all time ? Claiming the best now at anything is the "greatest of all time" seems to be a very modern thing across a number of fields.

Where's is the case for Pep made? He's not even the greatest of active managers, Ancelotti's record with 5 champions league titles is much better than Pep's. Ferguson and Mourinho both won big prizes with smaller clubs, in the early days of their careers, Pep only ever did it from a position of strength and money.

If you're willing to go back over the last 100 years, there will be obviously better more successful managers as well.
 
TheBigLewandowski said:
but we were arguably the biggest club financially in the world 2 decades ago and clubs looked at us the same way we now look at City only with it being multiplied heavily due to the world wide increase in the sport both commercially & financially.
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I don't know how old you are, but this was never true. United were always financially behind the large Spanish clubs, and domestically Romans Chelsea too.
 
He will go down as one of the most influential managers of all time. His Barcelona team changed football the world over with professional, amateur, youth teams all copying the way that team played.
 
For me SAF is the number 1. By far...
Then we have Pep at 2.

After that its harder...
 
yumtum said:
Not just City, the only clean club he managed was Bayern, and he disjt last long there.
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To be fair he managed Bayern to consistent success in a manner they never before had. But even to this record there is the context that he took over the best ever Bundesliga team - Heynckes' treble winning side.
 
zonaldefending said:
He will go down as one of the most influential managers of all time. His Barcelona team changed football the world over with professional, amateur, youth teams all copying the way that team played.
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How so? Out of all 13 teams winning CL after Barcelona in 2011, only 1, City, copied that style because Guardiola was the coach. After that Luis Enrique in 2015 was the closest but he was way more direct.

Chelsea 2012
Bayern 2013
Madrid 2014
Barcelona 2015
Madrid 2016
Madrid 2017
Madrid 2018
Liverpool 2019
Bayern 2020
Chelsea 2021
Madrid 2022
City 2023
Madrid 2024
 
JBG said:
Was going to write exactly this... weird how that's hard to understand when non Barcelona/City fans don't value his coaching career thus far.

There's been a question mark(as in very shady shit been happening) next to most of the teams he has managed.
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It is absolutely false that non Barca/City fans do not rate him. I do not know many, if any, fans who do not rate Pep as the best coach of his era.

In fact, if tomorrow he becomes our manager, everyone here would be praising him and saying that he is at worst the best manager of his era and one of the best, if not the best, ever. This idea that oh we do not rate him, is pure jealousy disguised as we are so principled at worst, and rant at best.

At the end of the day, what United fans say won’t decide where Pep will end on history books. And unless something very unlikely happens, he will end as the best and most successful manager of all time, probably by a large margin.
 
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