Is Pep the greatest manager of all time?
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
It is total nonsense that United fans do not rate him. A bit like how we do not rate Haaland or de Bruyne, but would tatoo their faces if they would sign for us.
Football banter or jealousy, get your pick.
This. I still acknowledge that Pep is a very good coach, just not the GOAT as many people make him out to be.
Fair enough. I should've worded it differently and said quite a few of MU fans, for very obvious reasons.
Banter for some and bitterness for the overwhelming rest.
I'll never say it enough, given the widespread manager worship tradition amongst the MU fanbase, Pep would've had a statue outside of Old Trafford if he managed their club.
Issue isn't rating him... most(if not all MU fans rate him). The problem is calling him the greatest manager ever... which he isn't, considering the clubs he has managed and the way they have cheated their way to victory.
Not sure what the issue is with what I said... but OK
I can accept that Pep is the GOAT
His trophy cabinet is absolutely insane
His trophy cabinet is absolutely insane
Hence the need to end the conversation right here, right nowNot sure what the issue is with what I said... but OK
.He is the GOAT. He needs to go a full season undefeated. That's what he'll be hoping to achieve next.
Clearly he should have said "he's managing a club who currently have 115 charges against them, which some think suggests there's a chance of some cheeky behaviour?"
He needs to show he can do something superb at a club who aren't the richest in their league, or don't already have by far the strongest squad in the league on his arrival. Or in some cases both!
Firstly he's a coach, secondly he's never coached a side that hasn't had a huge advantage over their opposition.
Barca - He had the goat in his prime and two of the greatest midfielders of all time. If you add that to the rest of the world class players he inherited its hard not to implement your vision.
Bayern - he took them at their strongest and won titles, you'd argue he actually failed at Bayern as he didn't deliver a champions league with a ridiculous squad.
City - he can rebuild with an unlimited pit of money, he also had the draw to bring in Haaland. He's a game changer of ridiculous levels.
Sir Alex, Clough and the Liverpool lot (even Klopp) they create teams. They won stuff with sides not expected to.
He's not the best in my eyes, he's elite but he needs elite toys to implement his systems and vision.
Barca - He had the goat in his prime and two of the greatest midfielders of all time. If you add that to the rest of the world class players he inherited its hard not to implement your vision.
Bayern - he took them at their strongest and won titles, you'd argue he actually failed at Bayern as he didn't deliver a champions league with a ridiculous squad.
City - he can rebuild with an unlimited pit of money, he also had the draw to bring in Haaland. He's a game changer of ridiculous levels.
Sir Alex, Clough and the Liverpool lot (even Klopp) they create teams. They won stuff with sides not expected to.
He's not the best in my eyes, he's elite but he needs elite toys to implement his systems and vision.
The amount of hindsight 20/20 to discredit him here is hilarious, but unsurprising considering its RedCafe
Pep really does seem to be rapidly approaching Lance Armstrong levels of villainy.
Both immensely talented, but with a penchant for ‘win at all costs’ having no delineating line between pushing a boundary and outright cheating.
They both seem to have a sense of internal ethics that whitewashes all their behaviour. A kind of ‘everyone else is doing all they can do to beat me, so I will too’. I don’t know if it’s knowing reframing, or they’re just broken people.
The odd doublethink in his Catalan independence comments while working for Abu Dhabi, his use of PEDs and the resulting ban, his forever pot-kettle-black comments on other teams.
As with Lance, he’s been a soldier of fortune. Wherever gives him the best chance of winning, he’ll be. They’ll remain an arms length away from the mechanics and just focus on the winning. At times it’s been impossible to hold that line. Lance would deny doping in pressers. Pep gets shirty when asked anything non football related. Lance would routinely say ‘Im the most tested athlete in sport’. Pep will say ‘I focus on the football, and let the other people at my club handle everything else’.
Both have this myopic focus on winning as if their wins can’t be tainted by anything that doesn’t happen on the field of play. That their success isn’t massively assisted by criminality in the background.
Lance is undoubtedly one of the greatest cyclists of all time. He got to have all the adulation, stage and race wins, money and fame. He’s sitting pretty, richer than Christ surrounded by 7 yellow jerseys. Nothing can colour his career bad in his eyes. Even his contrition looks sociopathic.
Pep may end up looking exactly the same. He cheated as a player via the use of drugs. Barcelona are under investigation for referee payments. Rumours of doping amongst his playing squad look paper thin or conspiratorial at times, but the smell is there. His huge disputes with Bayerns doctor seems to fly in the face of player welfare. And, as The Times once said, he seems to have his hand on the tiller of a pirate ship at City.
Lance knew he was cheating. Pep knows that City cheat. It’d be a shame if all of Pep’s success was tainted by investigations held years after the trophies had been won, but I really think his house of cards is going to topple in exactly the same manner as Armstrongs.
Both immensely talented, but with a penchant for ‘win at all costs’ having no delineating line between pushing a boundary and outright cheating.
They both seem to have a sense of internal ethics that whitewashes all their behaviour. A kind of ‘everyone else is doing all they can do to beat me, so I will too’. I don’t know if it’s knowing reframing, or they’re just broken people.
The odd doublethink in his Catalan independence comments while working for Abu Dhabi, his use of PEDs and the resulting ban, his forever pot-kettle-black comments on other teams.
As with Lance, he’s been a soldier of fortune. Wherever gives him the best chance of winning, he’ll be. They’ll remain an arms length away from the mechanics and just focus on the winning. At times it’s been impossible to hold that line. Lance would deny doping in pressers. Pep gets shirty when asked anything non football related. Lance would routinely say ‘Im the most tested athlete in sport’. Pep will say ‘I focus on the football, and let the other people at my club handle everything else’.
Both have this myopic focus on winning as if their wins can’t be tainted by anything that doesn’t happen on the field of play. That their success isn’t massively assisted by criminality in the background.
Lance is undoubtedly one of the greatest cyclists of all time. He got to have all the adulation, stage and race wins, money and fame. He’s sitting pretty, richer than Christ surrounded by 7 yellow jerseys. Nothing can colour his career bad in his eyes. Even his contrition looks sociopathic.
Pep may end up looking exactly the same. He cheated as a player via the use of drugs. Barcelona are under investigation for referee payments. Rumours of doping amongst his playing squad look paper thin or conspiratorial at times, but the smell is there. His huge disputes with Bayerns doctor seems to fly in the face of player welfare. And, as The Times once said, he seems to have his hand on the tiller of a pirate ship at City.
Lance knew he was cheating. Pep knows that City cheat. It’d be a shame if all of Pep’s success was tainted by investigations held years after the trophies had been won, but I really think his house of cards is going to topple in exactly the same manner as Armstrongs.
TLDR; hairless impostor?
You sure about that?
Yeah. Because I love football. Just as I love cycling.
For years I watched the sport I loved just casually assimilate the knowledge that Armstrong was a cheat. Fans of cycling just wore it. I expected his eventual comeuppance to feel validating. It actually just felt more shit.
In part because there was no real consequence to it all. It just kind of hollowed out the memories of those years he cheated and won.
But mostly because he really didn’t show up and show any kind of contrition, other than what was needed to get off the hook. I suspect Pep would be the same.
I think the context of the situation is important. Pep seems to be the best in the world when he has a perfect set up and unlimited resources. I personally think Klopp is a better manager and has achieved more impressive feats. I'm sure many clubs would pick Klopp over Pep if given the option.
Is this even a serious question? Until he achieves the equivalent of what Fergie did at Aberdeen and/or United (and it's probably too late in his career for that) it's not even worth discussing.
Fergie won the league 3 times with Aberdeen, four cups and a European title. They've only won the league 4 times in their history and never since he left. He brought United our first title in 26 years after years of failure and then sustained it for nearly three decades.
Pep inherited teams which had seen recent or continual success, with significant financial backing and took them to the next level. His achievements are extremely impressive and put him in the top five managers without question, but they pale in comparison to what Fergie achieved in his career.
Fergie won the league 3 times with Aberdeen, four cups and a European title. They've only won the league 4 times in their history and never since he left. He brought United our first title in 26 years after years of failure and then sustained it for nearly three decades.
Pep inherited teams which had seen recent or continual success, with significant financial backing and took them to the next level. His achievements are extremely impressive and put him in the top five managers without question, but they pale in comparison to what Fergie achieved in his career.
He is the greatest of his era. Impossible to compare and contrast beyond that. He is a football genius but there are some question marks over his success with both Barcelona and City, but they will never proven one way or another.
He's allegedly the best at cheating.
As a player- doping controversies.
As a manager - similar. The Bayern medical doctor left while he was manager. Also complicit in Manchester City's charges.
Easier to win trophies when you have the best players and unlimited transfers.
As a player- doping controversies.
As a manager - similar. The Bayern medical doctor left while he was manager. Also complicit in Manchester City's charges.
Easier to win trophies when you have the best players and unlimited transfers.
Top clubs who want to win immediately (or at least within the 1st or 2nd season) with a distinctive and expansive style will always pick Pep over Klopp. But clubs that are more patient than that will likely go for Klopp because Klopp needs time to implement his system.
Why do you think every club Pep coaches is willing to give him the perfect set up though? What he did at Barcelona in his first season was special and every top team wanted that.
Klopp got Liverpool to a Champions League final on his first attempt, Pep needed 6 years and a ridiculous amount of money to get City to one.
I find Klopp's achievements significantly more impressive than Pep's.
Pep is very consistent in taking the best and richest team in a league and getting them to press those advantages, but Klopp has created fantastic teams with Dortmund and Liverpool despite pretty severe disadvantages compared to the top teams financially.
Let's put it this way, Klopp would have won a lot more with the resources Pep's had, then Pep would with the resources Klopp's had.
Just by saying 'very good coach', you are revealing your true hater feelings, though. Arteta is a very good coach. Pep is one of the greatest managers of all time. By literally any metric. There's a difference.
*115
Fully agree. Also i went to Loftus road once, it was really fun. Quite a unique stadium.
"True hater feelings"
Brilliant post
100% this.
The greatest bald football manager of all time. He only tops the hairless ladder.
Did Messi Dope under Pep?
As it stands, Pep has won a lot more with the resources he's had than Klopp has won with the resources he's had.
Maybe on a United forum. Not really generally, not at all. On the caf sure, but then again ut seems to me a sizeable chunk would rather United stay irrelevant result-wise than having Pep coming in at any time ro make us relevant again.
Love Loftus Road, but it's become a bit outdated/small with simple things like legroom even being a problem. Unfortunately we are unable to expand the current stadium and the H&F council seems to hate us for some reason when it comes to potential stadium locations. So the only future option at the minute would be to build a new stadium outside of Shepherds Bush.
I'd much rather just stay where we are rather than moving to a lifeless modern stadium. When QPR are playing well and the atmosphere is up the stadium is very compact and one of the hardest places to play (see Liverpool and Chelsea at home last time we were in the prem).
The other problem is that it also limits us in terms of FFP income which is frustrating as our owners are happy and willing to invest money in the squad but currently aren't allowed to, puting us at a significant disadvantage against bigger clubs in the division.
If it means cheating as pep has consistently been predisposed to do, then yes I'd rather not win anything.
In Villainy, not public sentiment. Lance hid behind him being a cancer survivor. Pep hides behind results and trophies.
I don't know if he is the best ever, and I'm not a fan of the tactics he employs. Completely mundane, dull and boring BUT i will say this. When SAF was retiring, he was the man I wanted to replace him and I'm convinced we would have kept winning trophies under him.
Nah, feck Pep and his achievements