Is Neymar about to overtake Ronaldo

Treble said:
You keep comparing different players in different teams in different circumstances.

If we beat City 3:0 away without Martial, then come up with that comment. Not now. Even then the comparison would be pretty shallow.

Over the course of this calendar year, the difference in class betwen Messi and Neymar hasn't been huge. Neymar has contributed in the big games at least as much as Messi, if not more.
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:lol: Alright then.

I keep bringing scenarios because your logic is poor. You're entitled to your opinion, that's fine. But "Neymar is as good as Messi because Barcelona won 6 games" is bad logic.

Over the course of the year the gap has indeed been big. Till Messi was fit he was a good few notches above Suarez and Neymar, and Suarez was actually better than Neymar. Are you sure you watched the 14/15 season entirely? It doesn't seem you did. Messi was the heart of the team that won the treble.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Sorry to break it to you but you're not ahead of the curve at all. Everyone recognizes Neymar as the future best player in the world. He can possibly be among the greats as well, and given his ability, whether that's top 10 or top 20 or top 30 remains to be seen.
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Read the post about Neymar from last year, say, during the WC. What were you saying back then? Sorry to break it to you but you weren't very excited. Read the posts form the start of this season when he was compared to Hazard. So much underrating, it was funny.
 
That isn't to say that Neymar won't become better than Messi of course. The latter is bound to lose more speed and become more of a playmaker than a goalscorer and Neymar will enter into his prime. It's natural for the baton to be passed as it was from Ronaldhinio eventually to Messi. But anyone who thinks it was close particularly in 14/15 is bonkers. It was Messi, then Suarez, then Neymar for me. Now Neymar has surpassed Suarez since I reckon.
 
Treble said:
Read the post about Neymar from last year, say, during the WC. What were you saying back then? Sorry to break it to you but you weren't very excited. Read the posts form the start of this season when he was compared to Hazard. So much underrating, it was funny.
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Why are you bothered about what happened a year back? Do you like living in the past? Does it have a single thing to do with anything anyone is talking about now? Odd.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
:lol: Alright then.

I keep bringing scenarios because your logic is poor. You're entitled to your opinion, that's fine. But "Neymar is as good as Messi because Barcelona won 6 games" is bad logic.

Over the course of the year the gap has indeed been big. Till Messi was fit he was a good few notches above Suarez and Neymar, and Suarez was actually better than Neymar. Are you sure you watched the 14/15 season entirely? It doesn't seem you did. Messi was the heart of the team that won the treble.
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Who said that? Not only your comparisons suck but your fachts as well. Calm down. It's obvious that you are a huge Messi fan and very biased as well.
 
For me, Neymar still hasn't overtaken Ronaldo as second best player in the world. Sure, Ronaldo has had a pretty poor start to the season but I struggle to belief he'll perform like that for the entire season. However, if he does, then maybe we'll have to accept he's declining and won't reproduce his goal-scoring records of the past couple of seasons. And then I'll say Neymar has surpassed him, but you need to take a lengthy period of time into consideration for things like this. On current form, he's better than Ronaldo but all in all I still believe Ronaldo is the better player (currently, because it's only a matter of time before Neymar will overtake him eventually). He's not happy in Madrid at the moment, with Benitez being there and all, and Neymar has benefited from Messi's injury to step up as the main man for Barcelona - maybe benefited is the wrong word, because Messi creates a shitload of chances for him as well but the spotlight was on him (and Suarez) in Messi's absence and he has delivered brilliantly, but let's not jump to conclusions. If this trend keeps continuing for the rest of the season, we'll probably have to admit Neymar is the second best player in the world, but I wouldn't dismiss Ronaldo that easily. Messi has had patches of poor form as well over the last three or four seasons and we'd talk about how Ronaldo was suddenly the best player on the planet, but it's not that black and white - players go through some tough periods at times, that doesn't necessarily mean they're over the hill.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Why are you bothered about what happened a year back? Do you like living in the past? Does it have a single thing to do with anything anyone is talking about now? Odd.
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You are a bit slow in recognising players, also the most obvious of all, Messi...
 
Treble said:
Who said that? Not only your comparisons suck but your fachts as well. Calm down. It's obvious that you are a huge Messi fan and very biased as well.
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:lol: Calm down

I love when people can't discuss coherently and then resort to claiming the other person biased after that.

Don't worry, everyone rates Neymar. He is brilliant.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
:lol: Calm down

I love when people can't discuss coherently and then resort to claiming the other person biased after that.

Don't worry, everyone rates Neymar. He is brilliant.
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What exactly wasn't coherent? I'm curious.
 
Not interesting in this childish bickering. What's impressed me most about Neymar over the last year or so is his passing. It's vastly improved. Now the whole relationship with Suarez seems to be a lot more mutual which is a sign of how he's refined his all round game compared to last season and before.
 
Called this in the summer, the takeover has happened already for me. Neymar is second best in the world.
 
RobinLFC said:
For me, Neymar still hasn't overtaken Ronaldo as second best player in the world. Sure, Ronaldo has had a pretty poor start to the season but I struggle to belief he'll perform like that for the entire season. However, if he does, then maybe we'll have to accept he's declining and won't reproduce his goal-scoring records of the past couple of seasons. And then I'll say Neymar has surpassed him, but you need to take a lengthy period of time into consideration for things like this. On current form, he's better than Ronaldo but all in all I still believe Ronaldo is the better player (currently, because it's only a matter of time before Neymar will overtake him eventually). He's not happy in Madrid at the moment, with Benitez being there and all, and Neymar has benefited from Messi's injury to step up as the main man for Barcelona - maybe benefited is the wrong word, because Messi creates a shitload of chances for him as well but the spotlight was on him (and Suarez) in Messi's absence and he has delivered brilliantly, but let's not jump to conclusions. If this trend keeps continuing for the rest of the season, we'll probably have to admit Neymar is the second best player in the world, but I wouldn't dismiss Ronaldo that easily. Messi has had patches of poor form as well over the last three or four seasons and we'd talk about how Ronaldo was suddenly the best player on the planet, but it's not that black and white - players go through some tough periods at times, that doesn't necessarily mean they're over the hill.
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I already thought Neymar was better from last year. Ronaldo might score more goals but I like watching a player like Neymar moe. Theres no exciting element to Ronaldos game anymore. Neymar is like a mixture of the old dribbling Ronaldo with the recent finisher Ronaldo.
 
This is such a weird reaction. Neymar plays for a team that has a settled philosophy of play. Madrid have gone from having Ancelotti as manager to Benitez. I think that has something to do with it.

Until Neymar or Suarez can be as consistent as Ronaldo over a season, the comparison shouldn't even be made.
 
Kevin said:
Agreed. Some overhyping of Neymar here. He is incredible, just like there have been other incredible players now and in the past. Incredible but not mercurial.
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What's the difference between incredible and mercurial? Is a mercurial player better than an incredible one?
 
RedStarUnited said:
I already thought Neymar was better from last year. Ronaldo might score more goals but I like watching a player like Neymar moe. Theres no exciting element to Ronaldos game anymore. Neymar is like a mixture of the old dribbling Ronaldo with the recent finisher Ronaldo.
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Did you really, really believe that Neymar was already a better player than Ronaldo in the beginning of last year when the latter scored like 20 goals in 10 games or something like that? Fair play if so. The guy had 48 goals in 35 La Liga appearances, while Neymar had 22 in 33. I know stats don't tell the whole story but it's a fact that Ronaldo has become a more and more pure goalscorer over the years, rather than the exciting player he was at United. I won't argue watching Neymar play is much better on the eye than Ronaldo these days, but Ronaldo needed to adapt his game once he got a little bit older and did it brilliantly if you ask me.

(I'm not even a Ronaldo fan btw, far from, I just think it's weird that everyone is in favour of Neymar at the moment, that's a bit too much jumping to conclusions for me yet)
 
I really like his new hair. He looks like a proper Brazilian footballer now. He also looks a bit more bad ass. The previous look with that flattened hair and american rapper cap made him look like some young japanese manga dork who's more concerned about the songs on his playlist than being a footballer. Great stuff! Btw, he's absolutely amazing nowadays.
 
Successful said:
I really like his new hair. He looks like a proper Brazilian footballer now. He also looks a bit more bad ass. The previous look with that flattened hair and american rapper cap made him look like some young japanese manga dork who's more concerned about the songs on his playlist than being a footballer. Great stuff! Btw, he's absolutely amazing nowadays.
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I thought his old hairstyle was a bit over the top crazy but his current hair is so, so bland. Makes him look so average, Do not like.
Wait... why am I writing about his hair?

Annnyway, I don't know how you'd measure the two, I mean stat wise Ronaldo still has the edge but when you watch the pair now, Neymars overal game and what he offers each week besides the goals stands apart from Ronnie , I know I'd rather watch Neymar than Ronaldo these days, if that counts for anything at all.
 
Figo was an amazing crosser of the ball, underrated aspect of hisgame...
 
11101 said:
Ronaldo scored 61 goals last season. Neymar was good but not that good. This season he is benefiting from his teammates whilst Ronaldo struggles with his, but its much closer now.
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It's the whole performance v goals debate all over again. Neymar has been out performing Ronaldo since last season, just not the focal point, hence less goals.

Also, what do you mean by "benefiting from his teammates", doesn't that apply to every player?
 
Roman Bellic said:
It's the whole performance v goals debate all over again. Neymar has been out performing Ronaldo since last season, just not the focal point, hence less goals.

Also, what do you mean by "benefiting from his teammates", doesn't that apply to every player?
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You should watch a Sweden game if you think every player benefits from his teammates.
 
I was in the skeptical camp regarding Neymar until about the WC. In terms of evaluating his potential, I have to take the loss and those who said he'd be at the very top can take the win. No arguing now, he's a brilliant forward, exciting and productive.

But the skepticism was in part because certain people were putting him in the top-3 (mainly people in Brazil) when he was still playing for Santos. These were the same people who thought Robinho was going to be one of the very best, and numerous other Brazilian player's you've never even heard about because they transferred to 2nd tier leagues and never made it out. So although they can claim the win regarding Neymar, their record is still negative.

All credit and praise to Neymar though, he lived up to the expectations and I hope he keeps on getting better.
 
Neymar vs Messi in the big games last season.

I'm counting the games vs Real and Atletico Madrid and also the games from the quarter finals to the final in the CL.

Neymar scored 7 goals in the final 5 games of the CL last season: 3 goals in the 1/4 finals vs Paris, 3 goals in the semifinal games vs Bayern and 1 goal in the final. Neymar scored also 2 goals in La Liga vs Real and Atletico and 2 goals in Copa del Rei against Atletico.

So, Neymar scored 11 goals in 11 big games last season without taking any pens.

Messi scored 5 goals, one of them from a pen.

11:5.

11:4, if you count only the goals from open play.

I'm not saying that Neymar was better!

Messi sort of compensated with his wonderful playmakig. But there was no substantial difference between Neymar's and Messi's performances in the BIG games.
 
Treble said:
Neymar vs Messi in the big games last season.

I'm counting the games vs Real and Atletico Madrid and also the games from the quarter finals to the final in the CL.

Neymar scored 7 goals in the final 5 games of the CL last season: 3 goals in the 1/4 finals vs Paris, 3 goals in the semifinal games vs Bayern and 1 goal in the final. Neymar scored also 2 goals in La Liga vs Real and Atletico and 2 goals in Copa del Rei against Atletico.

So, Neymar scored 11 goals in 11 big games last season without taking any pens.

Messi scored 5 goals, one of them from a pen.

11:5.

11:4, if you count only the goals from open play.

I'm not saying that Neymar was better!

Messi sort of compensated with his wonderful playmakig. But there was no substantial difference between Neymar's and Messi's performances in the BIG games.
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A fair few of those goals he was left one on one or with an open net tap in thanks to the unselfish play of Messi and Suarez to be fair. I'm thinking particularly of the first goal away at Bayern and the one in the Copa del Rey final. He practically couldn't miss those. That's not to say he didn't have a big impact in those games, but worth pointing out.
 
Treble said:
Neymar vs Messi in the big games last season.

I'm counting the games vs Real and Atletico Madrid and also the games from the quarter finals to the final in the CL.

Neymar scored 7 goals in the final 5 games of the CL last season: 3 goals in the 1/4 finals vs Paris, 3 goals in the semifinal games vs Bayern and 1 goal in the final. Neymar scored also 2 goals in La Liga vs Real and Atletico and 2 goals in Copa del Rei against Atletico.

So, Neymar scored 11 goals in 11 big games last season without taking any pens.

Messi scored 5 goals, one of them from a pen.

11:5.

11:4, if you count only the goals from open play.

I'm not saying that Neymar was better!

Messi sort of compensated with his wonderful playmakig. But there was no substantial difference between Neymar's and Messi's performances in the BIG games.
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Its not all about goals and Messi created most of his goals anyway. Messi was just by far their best player last season.
 
Amethyst said:
A fair few of those goals he was left one on one or with an open net tap in thanks to the unselfish play of Messi and Suarez to be fair. I'm thinking particularly of the first goal away at Bayern and the one in the Copa del Rey final. He practically couldn't miss those. That's not to say he didn't have a big impact in those games, but worth pointing out.
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I agree to an extent. However, he scores many goals for Brazil without relying there on a Messi or a Suarez. The point that he scores a lot because Messi and Suarez are very creative is only part of the explanation for his productivity. His movement is sensational. Most of the goals looked easy indeed but that was because he is incredibly fast over short distances and gives no chance to the defenders.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
Thing with Neymar, is that unlike Messi and Ronaldo he doesn't have a challenger. Messi will win 5 (at least) and Ronaldo will be on 3. But with Neymar, he seems to have a clear path when you look at the field. There's not really a young player at that level around right now. Hopefully we do get a few challengers to make it interesting.
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I think his competition could be on the same field, has suarez I think has been sensational for a few years now, he has been Barca's best forward since he arrived at the club
 
Treble said:
I agree to an extent. However, he scores many goals for Brazil without relying there on a Messi or a Suarez. The point that he scores a lot because Messi and Suarez are very creative is only part of the explanation for his productivity. His movement is sensational. Most of the goals looked easy indeed but that was because he is incredibly fast over short distances and gives no chance to the defenders.
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I know, I wasn't arguing that he can't score brilliant goals without them because he obviously can, just that in those particular games you mentioned his goals don't necessarily show he had the most impact. Look the two goals in the Allianz for example, Messi's defence splitting pass to Suarez for first sets the whole move in motion and in the second he wins the ball and it sends Suarez on his way in acres of space which allows him the time he needs to pick out Neymar at the back post. Apart from considering those sort of contributions as a 'key pass' you won't find those detailed on Transfermarkt or whoscored.

There are lots of things that don't get recorded as stats in fairness that can only be seen when actually watching the game. A good example is Barcelona's third goal on Saturday against Madrid. Neymar does brilliantly to find Iniesta with the back heel assist but Suarez also helps out by using movement to drag the defenders out left and this in turn opens up the space for the move to continue.
 
Gio said:
Is a mercurial player better than an incredible one?
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I would've thought it was the other way around myself. You don't have to be mercurial in order to be incredible.

But then again I ain't a professor of football.
 
Roman Bellic said:
It's the whole performance v goals debate all over again. Neymar has been out performing Ronaldo since last season, just not the focal point, hence less goals.

Also, what do you mean by "benefiting from his teammates", doesn't that apply to every player?
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To differing degrees yes. Ronaldo has world class teammates. Neymar has Messi, Iniesta, Suarez and until this year, Xavi. All simply the best in the world in their positions.
 
Amethyst said:
I know, I wasn't arguing that he can't score brilliant goals without them because he obviously can, just that in those particular games you mentioned his goals don't necessarily show he had the most impact. Look the two goals in the Allianz for example, Messi's defence splitting pass to Suarez for first sets the whole move in motion and in the second he wins the ball and it sends Suarez on his way in acres of space which allows him the time he needs to pick out Neymar at the back post. Apart from considering those sort of contributions as a 'key pass' you won't find those detailed on Transfermarkt or whoscored.

There are lots of things that don't get recorded as stats in fairness that can only be seen when actually watching the game. A good example is Barcelona's third goal on Saturday against Madrid. Neymar does brilliantly to find Iniesta with the back heel assist but Suarez also helps out by using movement to drag the defenders out left and this in turn opens up the space for the move to continue.
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Stats are a limited tool, no doubt about that. Goals and asists do not tell by far the whole story about the contributions of attacking players. It is the same with Neymar. Statistically, he was relatively uncreative last season because he did not have many key passes, etc. But that's not the whole story. He wasn't just a poacher from te left flank or something. He was still very involved in Barca's attacks. l
 
Chesterlestreet said:
I would've thought it was the other way around myself. You don't have to be mercurial in order to be incredible.

But then again I ain't a professor of football.
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Mercurial is quite a good description of Neymar. Incredible too probably, but I'd say he was mercurial before he became incredible.
 
Treble said:
You are a bit slow in recognising players, also the most obvious of all, Messi...
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Amol will have bought a Neymar duvet cover by the end of the season. Once he gets on the fanboy train there's nowt stopping him.
 
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Gio said:
Incredible too probably, but I'd say he was mercurial before he became incredible.
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No doubt, yes. I can even think of mercurial players who were clearly NOT incredible, and had no chance of being it either.
 
11101 said:
To differing degrees yes. Ronaldo has world class teammates. Neymar has Messi, Iniesta, Suarez and until this year, Xavi. All simply the best in the world in their positions.
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So did Pedro and Alexis Sanchez but they didn't quite perform at the same level as Neymar. I think you're singling out Neymar for being heavily reliant on his teammates, which is wrong.

Neymar has been showcasing his individual brilliance since the world cup, the only difference between this season and last is Messi's unfortunate injury, which has allowed him to obtain an even greater role in that attack - he has obviously done that with very little hassle.

Barcelona's system should also be factored in. You can't (and shouldn't) knock Neymar or Suarez from benefitting from a system even the great Messi benefits from. It's the whole "Messi won't be as great without Xavi and Iniesta" argument all over again. If that were the case then every attacker signed by Barca in the last decade or so would be as great as Neymar.
 
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