Is Jose Mourinho still our best manager post Fergie?

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LVG. Had we had a Director of Football like every other club on the planet, he would have been prevented from spending on dross and left to focus on the coaching, the thing he was actually good at.

Then we have Ole.

Mourinho knew how to win but was awful everywhere else.

The less said about Moyes the better.
 
Jose was easily the best we’ve had post Sir Alex. I don’t even know why this is a debate.

He achieved more with a weaker squad than our current manager will ever achieve. I trusted Mourinho when he had his backing staff, Rui Faria etc I don’t trust our current manager and coaches.
 
Why is this a debate? Ed the idiot didn't back him after a great season. He predictably downed tools and thanks to mischief makers like Pogba he is portrayed as the greatest villian ever. One can only wonder what could have been. I remember people baying for his blood when he wanted to sell Martial, saying how Martial would be a future BDor winner etc etc. Makes for a good laugh now.
 
It was always going end in tears with mourinho. Every club he goes to that happens after few years.
But there no denying what he achieved with that poor squad was very commendable.
At the time we all thought he was the bad guy with dropping martial , pogba feud, calling snaking out etc but when you look back in hindsight he was actually right.
He was wrong about Luke Shaw though but who knows maybe he is the reason Shaw got to the level he is today because he want prove Mourinho wrong. Maybe that was the kick up the ass he needed.

With this squad would Mourinho do better then Ole? I believe he would but obviously there no chance he coming back and nor would I want him too.
 
I think tactically it has to be Mourinho and it isn't even close. While the style of play wasn't pleasing under Mou, there's a clear sense that the team was set up to win in matches.

When you take the off-field management into account, it's possibly Ole but it's close with Mourinho.

I think Ole is basically Moyes level for tactics, or a hair better.

Roma will take Mourinho, but Roma will not take Ole.
 
Roane said:
I was against having Jose as a manager and was happy enough to see him go. But that was more about the man and his days at Chelsea etc.

That said I think a lot of what he was whinging and moaning about in his "toxic season" has come to pass.

I wanted Pogba as a player and Martial was also a favourite. As time has passed Joses views and wanting them gone seem to be the most accurate. Maybe dislike of the man, Jose, saw likes of me being negative towards him about these players and his whole second place in the league with the players he had being his biggest achievement.

As for Ole leaving the squad in a better position. I really don't think so. We have players on big contracts who will be hard to get rid of for a new manager plus potentially losing players who aren't signing contracts plus aging players. Any new manager coming in will need money and lots of it. Which isn't a bad thing generally but what we have spent under Ole should leave the next man nothing more than a tweak not a rebuild.
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I agree with you. I do not like Jose the guy. But I do not know him too. As a manager in the first season and the second season he was good. Yes, there were things he does and talks that made me cringe. Ole does do the talk and says the right things. But Jose was a top notch tactician. But I guess he demands so much from his players it was difficult to maintain it.
You are right. Jose is no mug and he knows players. He is right with Pogba and Martial. I also feel that losing Zlatan was a big blow to him. Zlatan was larger than life and kept the other players under control. Once he left, there was no one else to do that. But under Jose it was always going to end up in disaster. For the simple reason his way of playing football and what United expects him to play is way too different. Give this team to Jose and he would have got rid of Pogba and brought in a top class midfield player who has the work ethics to work in a Jose team. He would love Cavani. He was always going to be a short term fix and I would say the same with Conti.
But these days it is very rare for any club that aspires to be the best lasts any managers unless they deliver. Ole is not going to deliver so may as well get rid of him and try to get someone else who can deliver and keep changing until we find someone who is good enough to deliver.
Now the excuse would be that Newcastle is too rich. We have to compete with likes of City, Liverpool, Chelsea and now Newcastle. There goes the 4th place next season.
 
Mourinho is the worst one. Doesn't matter if he's a good tactician if he's sabotaging the team to save his own reputation.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
Solskjaer was a De Gea penalty save away from also winning the Europa League.
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After playing for penalties and using all his subs with penalties in mind against Villarreal. 1 shot on target in 2 hours football, even if De Gea had saved one we wouldn't have been the side that deserved to win the match.
 
littleman said:
I think tactically it has to be Mourinho and it isn't even close. While the style of play wasn't pleasing under Mou, there's a clear sense that the team was set up to win in matches.

When you take the off-field management into account, it's possibly Ole but it's close with Mourinho.

I think Ole is basically Moyes level for tactics, or a hair better.

Roma will take Mourinho, but Roma will not take Ole.
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Come on, I was against Moyes from day one, but there’s a reason why the guy has gotten jobs in the Premier League for 20 years. All the managers in the EPL and Championship are better than Ole without a doubt, but unfortunately for them, life isn’t always fair, sometimes the promotion you deserve at your job is given to the boss’s clueless mistress.
 
Foxbatt said:
I agree with you. I do not like Jose the guy. But I do not know him too. As a manager in the first season and the second season he was good. Yes, there were things he does and talks that made me cringe. Ole does do the talk and says the right things. But Jose was a top notch tactician. But I guess he demands so much from his players it was difficult to maintain it.
You are right. Jose is no mug and he knows players. He is right with Pogba and Martial. I also feel that losing Zlatan was a big blow to him. Zlatan was larger than life and kept the other players under control. Once he left, there was no one else to do that. But under Jose it was always going to end up in disaster. For the simple reason his way of playing football and what United expects him to play is way too different. Give this team to Jose and he would have got rid of Pogba and brought in a top class midfield player who has the work ethics to work in a Jose team. He would love Cavani. He was always going to be a short term fix and I would say the same with Conti.
But these days it is very rare for any club that aspires to be the best lasts any managers unless they deliver. Ole is not going to deliver so may as well get rid of him and try to get someone else who can deliver and keep changing until we find someone who is good enough to deliver.
Now the excuse would be that Newcastle is too rich. We have to compete with likes of City, Liverpool, Chelsea and now Newcastle. There goes the 4th place next season.
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Your point on Zlatan is on point. Something I've said often. I recall the zlatan and Henry interview and Pogba showing up. Zlatans exchanges with Pogba were funny but also showed, to me, that Pogba was almost intimidated by Zlatan and kept in check
 
IhabX7 said:
Mourinho is the worst one. Doesn't matter if he's a good tactician if he's sabotaging the team to save his own reputation.
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I think eventually most of our managers have "sabotaged" the team post SAF. Ole not so much until his last interview after the game.

Ultimately managers are easily replaced compared to players. However the issues with LVG and Jose almost all came to pass and Oke seems to be heading in the same direction. Including bringing in older players, which lvg did, Mourinho wanted to do and both got stick for it.
 
You could fire Ole right now, even justifiably so, and he'd still be the best manager post-Fergie.
 
No. Still Ole. Mourinho was diabolical in the transfer market and his short-sightedness with regards to player recruitment is still affecting the club.

Don't care about the Mickey Mouse cups he won.
 
littleman said:
While the style of play wasn't pleasing under Mou, there's a clear sense that the team was set up to win in matches.
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Was it that clear? Definitely not in his first season, where we set up extremely conservatively after the early spanking by Chelsea. Ended up drawing way too many games and not scoring nearly enough goals (fewer than Bournemouth!)

Even in his second season, there were loads of awful, ponderous performances in games we should have been winning comfortably. Particularly over the festive period.

In terms of setting up the team, Solskjaer is probably the most "attacking" manager of the four, which is how we look devastating in the right circumstances to an extent we never really did under Mourinho or Van Halen (going to leave this magnificent autocorrect in place).

It hasn't gotten him the kind of results you need to actually qualify as a top-level attacking coach though (before anyone brings out the second-highest-scorers-last-season stat: yes, we were, and it was nice, but we didn't win enough games)
 
Again, our current midfield (Pogba, Matic, Fred, McTominay) all came in/through under Jose and Ole's contribution has been to sell Herrera and sign VDB. It is a sham to claim he's created this amazing squad while in 3 years still relying on Jose's leftovers. That midfield that he has neglected for 3 years is our biggest problem and costing us every game. He's playing Football Manager trying to sign as many forwards as possible and hoping it wins games.
 
IhabX7 said:
Mourinho is the worst one. Doesn't matter if he's a good tactician if he's sabotaging the team to save his own reputation.
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Sabotaged his way to 2 trophies though, and ultimately that’s what counts at a club of our stature.
 
MackRobinson said:
No. Still Ole. Mourinho was diabolical in the transfer market and his short-sightedness with regards to player recruitment is still affecting the club.

Don't care about the Mickey Mouse cups he won.
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Of course you don't. Because they invalidate your argument.
 
Brexit_Brigade said:
Was it that clear? Definitely not in his first season, where we set up extremely conservatively after the early spanking by Chelsea. Ended up drawing way too many games and not scoring nearly enough goals (fewer than Bournemouth!)
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I'm sorry but that's nonsense. We drew a lot of games in his first season because of our shit finishing. We were creating ton of chances and missing them. He only became extra negative midway in his second season with us. His first season though, we actually played very good football for the majority of us.
 
el3mel said:
I'm sorry but that's nonsense. We drew a lot of games in his first season because of our shit finishing. We were creating ton of chances and missing them
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We categorically were not.

Go look up our XG from that season. This is one of the biggest myths around - we were playing utterly tedious football and creating nothing
 
The only managers to have won anything at United since Fergie are the managers that are most hated by the fans. Both LVG and Mourinho were well past their peak and yet both won trophies in less time than Solskjaer has had. Imagine the reaction if Ole had won the FA Cup and got the sack the next day.
 
MackRobinson said:
My argument wasn't based on meaningless trophies so there's that. Try again.
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You don't have an argument, which is why you call them meaningless in the first place. What's the manager's job at United? I think you'll find it's to win trophies. As many as you can. In 3 years Ole has been backed heavily and won nothing.

Please don't try again.
 
Brexit_Brigade said:
We categorically were not.

Go look up our XG from that season. This is one of the biggest myths around - we were playing utterly tedious football and creating nothing
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I watch our games regularly. I know which kind football we played every season, thanks, I don't need stats.
 
Ole is the better manager if you try to construct an argument around success not mattering and 2nd being an achievement but not when it’s inconvenient

Possibly helps if you use ‘progress’ as a buzzword too
 
el3mel said:
I watch our games regularly. I know which kind football we played every season, thanks, I don't need stats.
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Yeah, I knew that was coming.

This is a five-year-old argument that's really not worth bothering with. We have two opposing viewpoints, I have facts backing mine up, and you have the usual patronizing "I watched the games, I don't need to prove anything, I'm right, thanks" response. Enjoy yourself.
 
stw2022 said:
Ole is the better manager if you try to construct an argument around success not mattering and 2nd being an achievement but not when it’s inconvenient

Possibly helps if you use ‘progress’ as a buzzword too
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Don't forget blaming the previous managers even 3 years down the line.
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
You don't have an argument, which is why you call them meaningless in the first place. What's the manager's job at United? I think you'll find it's to win trophies. As many as you can. In 3 years Ole has been backed heavily and won nothing.

Please don't try again.
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Don't be obtuse. An EFL Cup and Europa League aren't the same as a league title and UCL (what United fans actually care about winning). Mourinho was also backed heavily.

Try again.
 
Brexit_Brigade said:
Yeah, I knew that was coming.

This is a five-year-old argument that's really not worth bothering with. We have two opposing viewpoints, I have facts backing mine up, and you have the usual patronizing "I watched the games, I don't need to prove anything, I'm right, thanks" response. Enjoy yourself.
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I already am.
 
On stats you have to go with Mourinho.

Both him and Ole got a 2nd place, but Jose won a couple of pots.
Ole is a bit unlucky to have lost a cup final on pens - that's not on him, although people still think he should have subbed his keeper/set the team up differently etc.
But then Jose lost an FA cup final too, so it's basically 2-0 and one hard luck story each.
 
How anybody could think a guy who left us in 9th, wasted big money and absolutely destroyed the confidence of so many players was our best i don't know. A league cup and europa league bought a completely disproportionate goodwill. We finished 6th that season and had the easiest el draw in a long time. Was great to win trophies but he took us backwards. Solskjaer needs to go but he brought club forward
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
Don't forget blaming the previous managers even 3 years down the line.
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I think what we’re forgetting is the progress we’ve made under Ole. To go from second and trophies to second and no trophies is something something 1999 something. And we can all agree only plastics would argue with that
 
To be fair to Jose, he, without a doubt knew what we all couldn't or refused to - Pogba really isn't someone to represent this club, let alone build around him.

He made a bad judgement on Shaw, that's his fault.

And we played like shit, but, let's also be honest - we play like shit now, so, whats the big difference?
Trophies. And, Ole is being backed by the board.
 
Ixion said:
If Ole got sacked right now the midfield he leaves behind would be Mourinho's, Pogba/Matic/Fred/McTominay.

He would also be leaving a manager with the problem of Pogba, Lingard and Cavani gone by the summer.
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But the next manager inherites a fantastic attack and (arguably) a very strong defence. Agree on midfield, but the squad is far stronger in my view.

I don’t think Pogba/Cavani/Lingard leaving is a problem (fan of Cavani tbf).
 
SER19 said:
How anybody could think a guy who left us in 9th,
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Weren’t we 6th/7th when Jose left? Joint with Everton?

Exactly where we are now, joint 6th/7th/8th with Everton & West Ham. I’d imagine we’ll be lower after 14 games and the point Jose was sacked.

The major difference is that Jose would be losing his shit now, hence the idea he ruined everyone’s confidence. He’d burn the house down with him rather than accepting mediocrity, Ole’s lovely though, unlike Jose he’s fine being joint with Everton, cause “something has to give”. I also love how he’s made Pogba confident, Martial too, which Jose couldn’t; and the job he’s done with DvB :drool:
 
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