Is Jose Mourinho still our best manager post Fergie?

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The whole idea that Ole has done a better job, or indeed been a better, more stabilising influence than any manager post-Fergie, is based wholely on the assumption that the squad he’s built will eventually win something, or failing that provide a great platform for the next manager to…

.. if he doesn’t win, or a next manager doesn’t come in soon enough to be able to fully utilise this squad - who in 2 years time will have no Cavani, maybe no/30yo Pogba, no/38yo Ronaldo, a 30yo Varane, 30yo Maguire & a 32yo Dea Gea and a 29yo Bruno - then his legacy will simply be as the highest spending manager post-Fergie, who won the least. And if that ends up the case, then the answer to the thread will be yes… obviously.
 
Mockney said:
The whole idea that Ole has done a better job, or indeed been a better, more stabilising influence than any manager post-Fergie, is based wholely on the assumption that the squad he’s built will eventually win something, or failing that provide a great platform for the next manager to…

.. if he doesn’t win, or a next manager doesn’t come in soon enough to be able to fully utilise this squad - who in 2 years time will have no Cavani, maybe no/30yo Pogba, no/38yo Ronaldo, a 30yo Varane, 30yo Maguire & a 32yo Dea Gea and a 29yo Bruno - then his legacy will simply be as the highest spending manager post-Fergie, who won the least. And if that ends up the case, then the answer to the thread will be yes… obviously.
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30 isnt that old really in CB years and besides Cavani/Ronaldo, the squad as a whole is quite young really. Even if we think two years ahead, most of our first choice players will still be in their prime or approaching it even

Oles days are probably numbered, but i still think hes leaving a very good squad behind and if the next manager has a bit more tactical nous and brings a staff with actual coaching ability im sure we can challenge for the big prizes. Besides lacking a CM/DM we have a pretty solid squad now
 
MackRobinson said:
Obviously taking about the trophies a club like United cares about. You sure do like feigning ignorance, but carry on.
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Ah, so now the club doesn't care about those 2 trophies, either. You sure do like making shit up to excuse the manager because he used to play for us. I'll leave you to it.
 
Bobcat said:
30 isnt that old really in CB years and besides Cavani/Ronaldo, the squad as a whole is quite young really. Even if we think two years ahead, most of our first choice players will still be in their prime or approaching it even

Oles days are probably numbered, but i still think hes leaving a very good squad behind and if the next manager has a bit more tactical nous and brings a staff with actual coaching ability im sure we can challenge for the big prizes. Besides lacking a CM/DM we have a pretty solid squad now
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But it doesn’t give this hypothetical new manager very long, does it? They’ll be expected to win instantly - something never expected of Ole - and then what? Are we gonna dominate for 5 years with a GK, a backline, Bruno and Pogba all in their 30s? Because that’s the whole point of this “foundations for the future” argument… it’s not that he spends 4 years building us up so the next manager can win one title, it’s so we can theoretically have long an illustrious period at the top, right? (Otherwise why not just hire a Conte?)
Except the longer we fanny about imagining that, all of these players get older, and it’s basically just Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho who are sure things to be top performers over the next 5 years and beyond… and only one of them was bought by Ole - and it’s the one we don’t even know will succeed here yet! We don’t know about Diallo, Pellestri, Henderson, Mejbri or the likes yet.. the other squad players who make it seem so young statistically. AWB is our youngest starting defender, but also probably the weakest link. McTominey too in midfield. Donnie and Dalot seem right offs. These are the young squad players who’re gonna set the world alight?

it’s all just so frustrating to see people giving him credit for something that hasn’t happened yet, and has no guarantee of happening at all, out of pure desperation to see this whole 3/4 year adventure as worthwhile, whilst our rivals manage to pick up trophies instantly after 1/2 year transitions. We’re a gullible bunch.

But I hope I’m wrong, naturally.
 
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He has easily been the best but the bar is very low for you guys, which just highlights how poor has been Ole and how little ambition and vision the owners of the club have.
 
For me:
Mourinho
Van Gaal
Ole
Moyes ( always wonder how he would do with the same budget and time as Ole)
 
Van Gaal was my personal favourite. Mourinho a close second and Ole a distant third. I don't even want to think about the Moyes era, easily the worst season of football I've experienced.
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
Ah, so now the club doesn't care about those 2 trophies, either. You sure do like making shit up to excuse the manager because he used to play for us. I'll leave you to it.
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The best manager we had said that United wants to win ALL Trophies. So I guess Sir Alex doesn't know what he is talking about?
He hasn't won any trophy yet. After three years and spending the most.
 
GueRed said:
So is he?

The last time we picked up silverware was FOUR years ago under Jose.

And will Ole eventually win a trophy next season? or will the drought continue?

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If only he was given the current playing squad.
 
DJ Jeff said:
I really loved LVG on a personal level and wanted him to succeed more than the other two
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Same. And I do think we played sophisticated football under him even if it was dull to watch at times. If he'd had a striker like Ronaldo or Cavani we might have been more effective against the average teams than we were.
 
I refuse to call one of them the "best", they'll all have failed. The least worst was Mourinho, even with the terrible 4 month spell before he was sacked.
 
It's between him and Van Gaal. It certainly isn't Ole.
 
IncyWincySpider said:
Personally I would rather we continue to win nothing with Ole than win the Europa League with Jose, he was completely the wrong choice for this club and I could barely watch us play with him in charge. If he had won us the league I may feel differently about him, but his tenure was nothing but one long low point for me.

But objectively, yes, he has been our best manager since Fergie.
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OGS football can be just as bad. Absolutely shocking. Not quite on the level as our dear old Dutch friend but just a little above Moyes at this moment. His run at the start of his tenure is the only thing protecting from showing a poor points to game ratio.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Weren’t we 6th/7th when Jose left? Joint with Everton?

Exactly where we are now, joint 6th/7th/8th with Everton & West Ham. I’d imagine we’ll be lower after 14 games and the point Jose was sacked.

The major difference is that Jose would be losing his shit now, hence the idea he ruined everyone’s confidence. He’d burn the house down with him rather than accepting mediocrity, Ole’s lovely though, unlike Jose he’s fine being joint with Everton, cause “something has to give”. I also love how he’s made Pogba confident, Martial too, which Jose couldn’t; and the job he’s done with DvB :drool:
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You're right we were 6th, on 26pts after 17 games, mid December. But also with a terrible team going nowhere. Replace solskjaer tomorrow and this team is ready to take off. Not so mourinho team
 
I think the next manager will reap the rewards of the excellent squad Solskjaer has assembled, what we've currently got is a Bugatti Veyron but we're missing the steering wheel. Mourinho did win us trophies but the club as a whole will be in a much, much better state post-Solskjaer, the negativity surrounding the club and the way he fractured our fanbase made following the club in his tenure incredibly toxic.

But if we're being objective then Mourinho was better as he won trophies, but I'm happy to look beyond the trophies for the whole picture which is why I personally think Solskjaer is the best manager we've had since Sir Alex. Had he won the Europa League last year I don't think there would've been any doubt, but he didn't and I don't think he'll get another chance to win one. He's definitely not without faults, for me, his reign will be one of missed opportunities, we should've won the Europa League last year and we should've made a better push for the title as that 12 point gap was down to lacklustre performances and weak draws. We also should've signed a defensive midfielder in the 2020 summer window and we still haven't to this day.

Surprised at people rating van Gaal higher than Solskjaer and Mourinho. He was absolutely dreadful for us, he did more damage to the club than Moyes and Mourinho combined. He set us back years with shoddy signings and played the worst football I've ever seen a big club play. I went into every game expecting to lose, we very often had 1 shot a game which was utterly pathetic. He's the only manager who made me not want to watch our matches and I know a couple who switched off and never switched back on.
 
The overrating of LVG era is really funny. We werw mostly crap under Van gaal. It seems people here forgot all those 0-0s. One FA cup doesn't change anything.
 
So let me get this straight.


Both lvg and mourinho spend a feck tonne of money, shredding our clubs legacy in every possible way including not qualifying for cl as a result of league position, but win a couple of half arsed trophies.

meanwhile under ole the side has increased to the point where you’re all pissed off because were not in a title challenge with a squad that is nearly the best in the league and during this time, systems have been put in place to ensure that development continues far down the line beyond potentially his tenure.

Ole, whether he is successful or not, has put our club on course with something neither LVG and mourinho could think of. He has significantly improved our club since he took over which you can’t say about any manager since Fergie and that says enough. Disregard oles tactics etc, the building blocks for a great team are there and he’s part of that.
 
Mockney said:
The whole idea that Ole has done a better job, or indeed been a better, more stabilising influence than any manager post-Fergie, is based wholely on the assumption that the squad he’s built will eventually win something, or failing that provide a great platform for the next manager to…

.. if he doesn’t win, or a next manager doesn’t come in soon enough to be able to fully utilise this squad - who in 2 years time will have no Cavani, maybe no/30yo Pogba, no/38yo Ronaldo, a 30yo Varane, 30yo Maguire & a 32yo Dea Gea and a 29yo Bruno - then his legacy will simply be as the highest spending manager post-Fergie, who won the least. And if that ends up the case, then the answer to the thread will be yes… obviously.
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Which a fecking daft opinion to have because the changes he’s had to make just in club atmosphere after mourinho was enough. Short term bollocks for the dark path we as a club could have gone down post mourinho

I used to think you had half a clue but I’m Changing my opinion rapidly.
 
Clearly. Did better than Ole with a clearly inferior squad. Closest comp is LVG.
 
Depends on what metric we use. If it’s trophies then its Jose clearly. That’s the tangible metric that matters at the end of the day. Managers are judged on what they win.

A lot of things that you could possibly say OGS is the best at are intangible, like ‘putting smiles on faces’, ‘changing the culture’, ‘instilling Utd DNA’ etc
 
SER19 said:
You're right we were 6th, on 26pts after 17 games, mid December. But also with a terrible team going nowhere. Replace solskjaer tomorrow and this team is ready to take off. Not so mourinho team
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But once again, you’re remembering past and present with an extremely strong bias. As you now admit, you thought position wise Mourinho left us worse, but if we’re on 26 pts after 17 games this season we’d have done well from this position.
We’re on 14 points now and in our next 9 games we face Liverpool, City, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and we’ve played utterly shite the entire season Leeds aside.

The you say this team is “ready to take off”, but Mourinho’s team DID take off when he left, that’s exactly what got the caretaker the full time gig.
Is this squad better? feck yeah, but it’s better because he’s been granted more time despite the lack of success and he’s spent shit loads more.

With hindsight, if Mourinho had gotten Maguire, sold Pogba & Martial and been allowed to reinvest that, we really don’t know where our squad would’ve been.

The only major 100% plus is that Ole will accept being wank and not unleash a scorched Earth strategy.
 
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LVG was just boring against the Lower teams, I think his record against the top teams was really good, he beat Liverpool and city quite a few times, that 2-1 at anfield was a good game to watch when Mata scored that bicycle kick. The game against city when we won was it 4-2 or something like that was good. But then we’d lose a lot at home against teams like Norwich.
 
Mockney said:
But it doesn’t give this hypothetical new manager very long, does it? They’ll be expected to win instantly - something never expected of Ole - and then what? Are we gonna dominate for 5 years with a GK, a backline, Bruno and Pogba all in their 30s? Because that’s the whole point of this “foundations for the future” argument… it’s not that he spends 4 years building us up so the next manager can win one title, it’s so we can theoretically have long an illustrious period at the top, right? (Otherwise why not just hire a Conte?)
Except the longer we fanny about imagining that, all of these players get older, and it’s basically just Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho who are sure things to be top performers over the next 5 years and beyond… and only one of them was bought by Ole - and it’s the one we don’t even know will succeed here yet! We don’t know about Diallo, Pellestri, Henderson, Mejbri or the likes yet.. the other squad players who make it seem so young statistically. AWB is our youngest starting defender, but also probably the weakest link. McTominey too in midfield. Donnie and Dalot seem right offs. These are the young squad players who’re gonna set the world alight?

it’s all just so frustrating to see people giving him credit for something that hasn’t happened yet, and has no guarantee of happening at all, out of pure desperation to see this whole 3/4 year adventure as worthwhile, whilst our rivals manage to pick up trophies instantly after 1/2 year transitions. We’re a gullible bunch.

But I hope I’m wrong, naturally.
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That's a really good post. Completely agreed. One thing you might want to give Ole credit for is steadying the ship after Mourinho left. Although the fact he left alone probably made sure of that...
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
But once again, you’re remembering past and present with an extremely strong bias. As you now admit, you thought position wise Mourinho left us worse, but if we’re on 26 pts after 17 games this season we’d have done well from this position.
We’re on 14 points now and in our next 9 games we face Liverpool, City, Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea and we’ve played utterly shite the entire season Leeds aside.

The you say this team is “ready to take off”, but Mourinho’s team DID take off when he left, that’s exactly what got the caretaker the full time gig.
Is this squad better? feck yeah, but it’s better because he’s been granted more time despite the lack of success and he’s spent shit loads more.

With hindsight, if Mourinho had gotten Maguire, sold Pogba & Martial and been allowed to reinvest that, we really don’t know where our squad would’ve been.

The only major 100% plus is that Ole will accept being wank and not unleash a scorched Earth strategy.
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I see your argument. Neither will be remembered as a success but i view the post Ferguson jobs as rebuilding United. Not just players, but the whole culture of the club. I think people forget how bad it had gotten. Mourinho was very unlucky that in his second season city got 100 points so no real title challenge there. But if the job of a manager post fergie is to rebuild and stabilise the club a bit (and win trophies) then solskjaer far out performed the others but just isn't good enough. If a top level manager took over now i think they have pretty much everything needed to succeed. If a top manager took over post Jose I think it would have went south fast as it did when Jose took over post LVG. It was a short term mess with a squad all over the place. Even youth set up and prospects seem better now
 
100% yes. I’m not saying we would have won the league but imagine after we finished second we:

Signed a CB. We ended up paying £80m for Maguire a season after he wanted to sign a CB.

Didn’t sign Fred for £52m. Jose stated many interviews it wasn’t his signing. A player who is currently a major issue in our midfield.

Shipped out Martial.

For balance he had a disliking to Shaw so he may not have been here now.
 
Honestly the revisionism in this thread is embarrassing.

Mourinho was a disaster for us, he cared only about himself and his entire setup was to protect his image rather than further the interests of the club. He spent most of his time here throwing the club, the players, the staff, the fans, and everyone around him under the bus to make himself seem better.

Yes, he won the EL by throwing away the league, and a league cup, but also ended up with the players in full mutiny and left us with a terrible squad that was hilariously unfit.

Ole may have reached his limit, but he's been orders of magnitude better for us than Mou was, we'll never hear him bang on about "football heritage" as a reason why it's the club's fault we lost a match and not his, and the next manager will inherit a much more stable team.
 
Hated Mourinho but yeah he was by far the best.
Him then LVG then Moyes and then Ole.
Know some people dont like it but Moyes is worlds apart from Ole, a different galaxy. Its why there will always be a job for him in the PL but Ole, this isnt his level.
 
mariachi-19 said:
So let me get this straight.


Both lvg and mourinho spend a feck tonne of money, shredding our clubs legacy in every possible way including not qualifying for cl as a result of league position, but win a couple of half arsed trophies.

meanwhile under ole the side has increased to the point where you’re all pissed off because were not in a title challenge with a squad that is nearly the best in the league and during this time, systems have been put in place to ensure that development continues far down the line beyond potentially his tenure.

Ole, whether he is successful or not, has put our club on course with something neither LVG and mourinho could think of. He has significantly improved our club since he took over which you can’t say about any manager since Fergie and that says enough. Disregard oles tactics etc, the building blocks for a great team are there and he’s part of that.
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He improved the club, but his job is to improve the results, that's something most United fans can't grasp because Ole was a player and there's a sentimental connection.
Also he appointed quite questionable coaching staff, spent money in areas we didn't really need to spend, has zero tactical foundation for the next manager, so, where's that big "club improvement"?
Yeah, he smiles, is a decent man manager using a few of SAF's principles, but other than that, until now, he achieved jack shit and it's time to throw the excuses away.
 
Imo, Moyes was unlucky. His key players like Rooney, Van Persie and Rio were constantly injured. His purchases of Mata and Fellaini were not bad. Technically, Moyes did not sell much players although some like Vidic announce they will leave at the end of the season.

Van Gaal destroyed the core of the club by selling too many top players without giving them a chance to redeem themselves.

Mourinho went for fast results by buying top players and he was right in the short term. Players like Zlatan, Pogba, Mkhi did produce the goods. He also brought in Lukaku but Lukaku became fat due to Man utd 's training regime. Mourinho was right that Lukaku was getting fat but he didn't do enough.

Ole laid a good foundation by getting the right players. Due to his connections, he's able to persuade Ronaldo back to the club. Ole has the strongest squad of them all.
 
The Bloody-Nine said:
Ah, so now the club doesn't care about those 2 trophies, either. You sure do like making shit up to excuse the manager because he used to play for us. I'll leave you to it.
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I'm talking specifically about Mourinho. The only significance of the Europa League is to get into the Champions League. Other than that is nothing more than a consolation trophy. Same as the EFL Cup. There are much better arguments to made for Mourinho, but winning 2 tinpot trophies is not one of them.
 
I'm still puzzled why Jose was sacked, I am sure the team wd be much stronger by now. Just like now, United were 6th at that point, so was it his fallout with Pogba, or the loss to Liverpool, or because Jose was generally disliked by the fanbase?
 
The Hilton said:
Honestly the revisionism in this thread is embarrassing.

Mourinho was a disaster for us, he cared only about himself and his entire setup was to protect his image rather than further the interests of the club. He spent most of his time here throwing the club, the players, the staff, the fans, and everyone around him under the bus to make himself seem better.

Yes, he won the EL by throwing away the league, and a league cup, but also ended up with the players in full mutiny and left us with a terrible squad that was hilariously unfit.

Ole may have reached his limit, but he's been orders of magnitude better for us than Mou was, we'll never hear him bang on about "football heritage" as a reason why it's the club's fault we lost a match and not his, and the next manager will inherit a much more stable team.
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Say it louder for those in the back. It's really crazy the revisionist history being peddled around here. The guy was a poisoned chalice.

Sevilla post-match.
Pogba treatment.
Shaw treatment.
Horrendous transfer business.
Negative style of play.
Lump the ball to Fellaini as the only plan B.
Etc etc.

My take is that there are a lot of posters who defended Mourinho so fervently that they believe exaggerating Ole's failures is their vindication for getting sucked into Mourinho's cult of personality. It's both fascinating and sad.
 
Che Guevara said:
I'm still puzzled why Jose was sacked, I am sure the team wd be much stronger by now
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It really, really wouldn't. The rot had set in long before he was finally sacked, going back to at least March 2018 when he spouted that "heritage" garbage after the Sevilla CL game.

There are two separate points to be made here.

1) Mourinho is our most successful manager since Fergie, purely by the fact that he's won more than the rest and his best league season was better than the others'
2) Mourinho absolutely deserved to get the sack and a lot of people (me included) wanted him gone long before it happened. The two posts above mine do a good job summing up why he was such a miserable bastard to have around, and why so many people continue to say Solskjaer (despite winning nothing) has been better for the club than he was - I don't personally agree, especially since Solskjaer has been around more than long enough now for the bar to be higher than "not actively undermining the team at every opportunity", but I will say I enjoyed our football last season more than I did from 2016-18
 
I do give credit to Ole for asembling a decent squad, which the next manager can inherit.

But other than that, there is little argument to be made in favor of him over Mourinho. End of the day, Jose left us with a trophy. So did LVG. Ole won't be leaving anything behind looks like.

Having said this, it's not like we've had stellar success after Sir Alex retired. So Jose is the best coach we've had relatively speaking. Typing these words makes it even sadder how crap we have been over the years.
 
Mourinho is clearly the best manager we had since Fergie, the fact he deservedly was replaced after causing so much carnage says it all about how bad things have been and the low quality of our football since 2013.
 
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