Is Jose Mourinho still our best manager post Fergie?

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mu4c_20le said:
Like your hate towards Ole? Wonder who you'll be defending tomorrow. "Woody wasn't actually that bad....he got ole the signings he wanted"
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Hate and opinion (right or wrong) are not the same thing. I don't hate Ole. I just think that he is nowhere near good enough for United. Jose is just hated so much here.
And i am not defending anybody. We have manager with two trophies vs manager with zero trophies. For me, manager who won something is better.
 
I think expectations have been lowered in general, but Jose is a giant hypocrite.

He talks about us finishing 2nd being a failure, but he talked about his 2nd place finish managing us in 2017-2018 as if he took a relegation fodder team to 2nd.
 
What is best? If it means most successful so far then yes. He won two trophies and a 2nd place. So far Ole has got a second place. He may win more and be more successful. Or he may not and get sacked.
 
Foxbatt said:
What is best? If it means most successful so far then yes. He won two trophies and a 2nd place. So far Ole has got a second place. He may win more and be more successful. Or he may not and get sacked.
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Looks like the writings on the wall
 
Short term? Yes, he won us some minor trophies and got our best points haul in the league

Long term? Not a chance. He bloated the squad, sent our wage bill through the ceiling and left the club in a truly dire state after his meltdown
 
Andycoleno9 said:
Hate and opinion (right or wrong) are not the same thing. I don't hate Ole. I just think that he is nowhere near good enough for United. Jose is just hated so much here.
And i am not defending anybody. We have manager with two trophies vs manager with zero trophies. For me, manager who won something is better.
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The reality is neither was that great but his points total was impressive. That’s Mou down for a tee - you put up with pragmatic football and his antics because he knows how to be consistent in the league and get 80+ points - when that was so far off 1st and he wasn’t given another £200m (rightly so) he just tried to get sacked.

Issue now is we are less consistent but the football hasn’t really changed. We take more risk but we do it through long balls and leak so many goals. People think we score more under Ole but we were only +5 on Mou’s season, basically without the freak Soton game the only difference is we got way more draws with Ole in the place of wins.

I hated Mou, he was never right but it’s a sad state of affairs he still is our most successful manager. If we played scintillating football, there’d be another side to this debate but we don’t and so it’s logically purely down to trophies.
 
Bobcat said:
Short term? Yes, he won us some minor trophies and got our best points haul in the league

Long term? Not a chance. He bloated the squad, sent our wage bill through the ceiling and left the club in a truly dire state after his meltdown
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Tbf Mourinho inherited a lot of rubbish and he tried to get got rid of a few ....(Memphis, Schweinsteger, Schneiderlin...)

A lot of the squad players were on fat wages and were hard to shift. Something Ole has been finding hard to do too...
 
Every manager we have had since Fergie had underwhelmed.
I read somewhere that in terms of trophies that Mourinho is actually second in terms of being our most successful manager since Busby and third or fourth in the history of the club.
He was a nightmare in terms of drama though and negativity.
 
GueRed said:
Tbf Mourinho inherited a lot of rubbish and he tried to get got rid of a few ....(Memphis, Schweinsteger, Schneiderlin...)

A lot of the squad players were on fat wages and were hard to shift. Something Ole has been finding hard to do too...
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He actually resolved the Rooney issue well too. If he had resigned at the end of his 2nd season I think he would get much more credit for the 2 trophies and 2nd place but he gets none because he threw his toys out of the pram and created a toxic atmosphere that summer.
 
Objectively, yes. Jose may be negative and toxic, but he found a way to earn 3 club honors and barely missing on one by one goal (the FA Cup). As for Ole, good vibes and being a nice guy just simply lead to nowhere if not complemented by drilling the team to be better; he's also on course to be the first Manchester United manager to not earn any single honor as club manager since Frank O'Farrell. Let that sink in for a moment.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
Objectively, yes. Jose may be negative and toxic, but he found a way to earn 3 club honors and barely missing on one by one goal (the FA Cup). As for Ole, good vibes and being a nice guy just simply lead to nowhere if not complemented by drilling the team to be better; he's also on course to be the first Manchester United manager to not earn any single honor as club manager since Frank O'Farrell. Let that sink in for a moment.
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Objectively? That's just silly.

He was the best or the worst depending on what you value. We picked up a couple of B tier trophies, at the cost of a dressing room revolt and leaving us in an awful state.

While I do think Ole's time is up, and he's taken us as far as he can, I still think his tenure has been much better - brought us back from the smoking ruin that Mourinho left, our only manager post SAF consistent enough to get us in the CL places 2 seasons in a row. Those "good vibes" you mock are clearly more difficult to produce than you make out, given that his 3 predecessors abjectly failed to produce them.
 
Depends if you like pyrrhic victories or not.

He won the most trophies but burned the house down to get there.

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Yes. A European Trophy and an 81 points 2nd place Finish. People act like Ole has brought back "The United Way" but we're playing absolutely dire football. The Europa Final was one of the worst big games I've seen from any United side.
 
Low bar, but yes: 2nd place (Ole's peak) + EL title (Ole's nadir).
 
Ixion said:
Yes. A European Trophy and an 81 points 2nd place Finish. People act like Ole has brought back "The United Way" but we're playing absolutely dire football. The Europa Final was one of the worst big games I've seen from any United side.
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I agree.

It was REALLY bad.
 
Personally I would rather we continue to win nothing with Ole than win the Europa League with Jose, he was completely the wrong choice for this club and I could barely watch us play with him in charge. If he had won us the league I may feel differently about him, but his tenure was nothing but one long low point for me.

But objectively, yes, he has been our best manager since Fergie.
 
Mourinho was toxic. He publicly shamed players. Told all the press at the start of his last season that his team wasn't good enough. And resorted to parking the bus in every game. Even at home to lesser teams. He tried to sign veteran players for short term success, and frequently dug out the young players and made them worse. Ole has been great for the likes of Shaw, Greenwood and Rashford. Jose wanted Willian and Perisic instead. He also created a bad atmosphere around the entire club. When he was sacked, a cloud was lifted and Ole brought back the attacking football. We went on a 14 game run. I'm not saying that Ole doesn't have his limitations, because he clearly does. He needs to go upstairs now and let a proper football coach take over.
 
Ole has been 3rd and 2nd in his two full seasons with United. Mourinho was 6th and 2nd. The season they were both there, United finished 6th. Mourinho got 26 points in 17 games (1.5 pts per game average), Solskjaer got 40 points in 21 games (1.9 pts per game average). If Solskjaer had the full season that season and kept on 1.9 pt per game average, we would have got 72 points for 4th place.

So Ole has been better in the league than Mourinho, which is what he is hired for - league and CL. You wouldn't say no to a League Cup, but that's not what a manager is hired for. If you were told at the start of the season you'd win the League Cup but finish 7th, or not win the League Cup and finish 3rd, one gets you sacked quicker than the other.

So Mourinho got sacked because he got only 26 points in 17 games. Ole has 14 points in 8 games. If he only gets 12 points in his next 9 games, he's gone too.
 
By number of pots on the shelf, yes, but the toxicity he injected into the club wasn't worth it.
 
I hated Jose in the end and we where right to sack but history looks back on silverware so yes he was out best/most successful.

Then LVG.

Ole being the least with Moyes.

Top 4 is all well and good but it's a waste of time when it's all you do every season
 
laughtersassassin said:
Top 4 is all well and good but it's a waste of time when it's all you do every season
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It's not really though, is it? Being in the Champions League is important and it brings more prestigious matches = more excitement as a fan. To finish in the top 4, you need plenty of points. To get points, you need to win a lot of games. Win lots of games = more happy moments as a fan every week.

Would you really prefer to finish 10th and win a cup? Win 1 in 3 games in a season? Lose 13 games in a season instead of 5 or 6? Think of every week you turn on to watch a team play, and they only win 1 in 3 times.

Ask Arsenal fans are they much happier now than they were from 2007-2012, because they won an FA Cup under Arteta? Being near the top of the table keeps you relevant, winning a domestic cup on its own without league form to go with it doesn't.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
It's not really though, is it? Being in the Champions League is important and it brings more prestigious matches = more excitement as a fan. To finish in the top 4, you need plenty of points. To get points, you need to win a lot of games. Win lots of games = more happy moments as a fan every week.

Would you really prefer to finish 10th and win a cup? Win 1 in 3 games in a season? Lose 13 games in a season instead of 5 or 6? Think of every week you turn on to watch a team play, and they only win 1 in 3 times.

Ask Arsenal fans are they much happier now than they were from 2007-2012, because they won an FA Cup under Arteta? Being near the top of the table keeps you relevant, winning a domestic cup on its own without league form to go with it doesn't.
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Cups gets ethced in club's honor though. Finished beyond 2nd isnt.
 
Not for me.

His titles mean crap all to me and he left United in a crap state.

Same with Van Gaal.

I don't sit their looking back at all the hard work he did to win an Fa cup. I look back at the players he left behind and the football we played because of it. If I did then maybe we should stick by Martial and Lingard due to their ability to win us an FA Cup.

Ole is the best. The two most important cups to win is the League and the CL. He probably cannot win it - but he has built a club that has made alot of the fans feel irritated that it should.
 
Sky1981 said:
Cups gets ethced in club's honor though. Finished beyond 2nd isnt.
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But we're not talking about the biggest trophies - League Cup, meh. Solskjaer was a De Gea penalty save away from also winning the Europa League.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
It's not really though, is it? Being in the Champions League is important and it brings more prestigious matches = more excitement as a fan. To finish in the top 4, you need plenty of points. To get points, you need to win a lot of games. Win lots of games = more happy moments as a fan every week.

Would you really prefer to finish 10th and win a cup? Win 1 in 3 games in a season? Lose 13 games in a season instead of 5 or 6? Think of every week you turn on to watch a team play, and they only win 1 in 3 times.

Ask Arsenal fans are they much happier now than they were from 2007-2012, because they won an FA Cup under Arteta? Being near the top of the table keeps you relevant, winning a domestic cup on its own without league form too with it doesn't.
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The comparison was versus what Jose did. Right now Ole getting is Top 4 hasn't even got us past a group stage as of yet.
 
Nope. Ole is. I don't give a flying feck about EL or LC or FA Cup wins for what it's worth.

The side that Mou left left behind vs the side Ole is having right now - the difference is stark and not only that one burned the house down, and was trying his best to burn everything in the neighborhood down as well
 
The most successful season post Fergie in terms of trophies is Mourinho's first, and the most successful in the League is the 81 points in his second.
 
This shouldn’t even be a question ….Jose easily the best.

Moyes should never have been manager.

LVG was a marked improvement and provided some lighter moments (plus a trophy) given the tumescent style of football.

Ole, despite spending £400m is nowhere near good enough.
 
Low bar and all that but Jose is clearly #1, then LvG and then Moyes and Ole. Silverware is all that is remembered after time.
 
stw2022 said:
I have soft spot for Van Gaal for all his flaws
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The football under LVG was the worst football I've seen in my life for any team. The only thing it was good for was as a sleep sedative.

I had confidence in Jose to win a cup with his contain and counter football and it worked, but doesn't work in the league any more where you can't break down teams that sit back and don't allow you to play your counter game.

Ole has basically started with a free flowing counter style and reverted to type with Jose style containing football, but with no where near the same control.

We concede every game under Ole. That wasn't the case with Jose. Despite having an in theory solid back 4 we don't defend well at all. Our midfield even with a double pivot is still a shambles.
 
Overall yeah. Means we look at both the bad days under Ole and Jose.
 
Yes and it’s not even close.

The first 18 months were extremely enjoyable. Something happened then, a disconnect between him and the squad around the time of the Alexis signing. Also around the time Pogba and Lukaku clearly fell out. The Zlatan injury and his resulting departure was disastrous for Mourinho. He was his guy in the dressing room.

The board then undermined him in the summer when he wanted to get rid of Pogba and Martial which was a huge mistake that we’re living with to this day. It was over at that point, we didn’t back him 6 months after giving him a new deal. Which is just a reminder that instead of blaming the manager you have to look above to find the real source of the rot at this club.
 
He won something. End of story. Every trophy matters. Every single one. We are one major trophy ahead of Liverpool in the standing of Britain's most successful club. I mean, let's not kid ourselves here. They're all important in the grand scheme of things. I'm immensely proud of the fact that Sir Alex got us to this point and I'd hate to lose our position as the most successful team in Britain to Liverpool whilst we persisted trophy-less with the same manager.
 
The football under LVG was poor but at least he had a system. Dull? Yes. But it was because of the football he wanted to implement. I’d rather be boring intentionally than shit because we’ve no clue what the feck we’re doing
 
anant said:
Nope. Ole is. I don't give a flying feck about EL or LC or FA Cup wins for what it's worth.

The side that Mou left left behind vs the side Ole is having right now - the difference is stark and not only that one burned the house down, and was trying his best to burn everything in the neighborhood down as well
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Ahh, yes, the old ‘those trophies are beneath us’ line. The same trophies OgS plays his best team in the latter stages of & loses. So the man you deem better cares about the trophies you don’t, interesting.

The notion that a team can just win nothing & suddenly turn into European/League Champions as some of dismissing how poorly OgS has been in those competitions is bizarre.

The bar is low but Jose was far more successful than OgS.
 
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