Is Fred the worst regular starter for United in living memory?

Dominos said:
Frequency of mistakes is often what separates top teams from those 12 points behind the leaders. It's not just Fred because I'm not one to bash him, it's the amount of times our players lose the ball in easy possession that is beyond frustrating. The sort of scenarios where you think "how could a professional footballer lose the ball there?" Now I know all teams do it, but it comes down to frequency. It honestly feels like every 30 seconds one of our players does something unbelievably stupid to give the ball away. If we can cut out these basic errors by 50% it makes such a massive difference, we'll get more attacking transitions, make more chances, our defence will be under less pressure, we'll give away less set pieces, we'll sustain more attacks.

To be fair, we've not actually seen these players under a good coach yet. I don't think Tuchel has transformed the technical ability of his players in his time at Chelsea, but they sure as hell pass the ball a lot better than did before he arrived. If a coach can come in and give the team a structure and guidance in and out of possession then you'd hope we may start to look like a completely different team in the same way Chelsea have.
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Agree.

Take yesterday as an example. We kick off the second half. About 15 seconds later McTominay misplaces an easy pass, causing Arsenal to counter and get a corner which they almost scored from. That's so typical of our midfield today, they are horrible in possession.
 
Shark said:
He's the worst and at times the most effective midfielder I've ever witnessed.
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So true, he can do something brainless one minute and the next he looks like a Kante-Iniesta hybrid for a split second.

Overall he averages out at about 6/10. Worse than our first choice CMs of old, but on par with or better than most of our rotation options of the past 20 years.

He and McTominay would both benefit from being used more sparingly.
 
Why is Fred so fecking hated. :lol: He’s a very good player in my opinion, doesn’t get anywhere near the plaudits he deserves.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
Said in another thread, I think he's a good player playing for a team that's not coached well and/or doesn't use him in a set up that uses his abilities.

You can't be a regular starter in Brazil's team and be shit, you'd be dropped (or never even make it).
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Wrong. There was another Fred.
 
Nonsense.

Fred is easily better than McTom in almost every aspect, pressing, passing, defensive coverage. Quite some times he's been scapegoated for the poor collective defense of the team.

Look forward to see him under RR.
 
I think a lot of people will change their tune about our little Brazilian over the coming months.

Been MoTM in our last two games.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Why is Fred so fecking hated. :lol: He’s a very good player in my opinion, doesn’t get anywhere near the plaudits he deserves.
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I just don’t get how you can him watch every game and think this. To me a very good player doesn’t make nearly the amount of mistakes as he does, passes better, shoots better, does most things better.

I’ve been one of his biggest critics admittedly, but I do think there’s a chance he’s reborn under Ralf and he’s played in a position and way that suits him much better.
 
b82REZ said:
I think a lot of people will change their tune about our little Brazilian over the coming months.

Been MoTM in our last two games.
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I agree, he might even be first name on the team sheet under Rangnick.

We have seen him press, win the ball back and actually play well.

I don't think he is a CDM, he is more of a pressing midfielder.
 
People love to go a little over board don't they?

Fred was dire in the first half it's fair to say, but then he made up for it with the assist to Bruno.

He then won us the penalty to win the game. You can see people have an agenda when all they want to talk about is how bad he is, rather than how well he turned his performance around.
 
I thought after the 1st 20 minutes last night he was one of our better players. He seems to have been freed up a little under Carrick, arriving in and around the box and I suspect we will see more of that under Ragnick.
 
Adam-Utd said:
People love to go a little over board don't they?

Fred was dire in the first half it's fair to say, but then he made up for it with the assist to Bruno.

He then won us the penalty to win the game. You can see people have an agenda when all they want to talk about is how bad he is, rather than how well he turned his performance around.
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He had a very mixed bag yesterday, we saw the best and worst of him. It's not as if this whole thread exists off last nights game, is it?
 
Adam-Utd said:
People love to go a little over board don't they?

Fred was dire in the first half it's fair to say, but then he made up for it with the assist to Bruno.

He then won us the penalty to win the game. You can see people have an agenda when all they want to talk about is how bad he is, rather than how well he turned his performance around.
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Last night was a typical Fred performance, a catalogue of errors mixed with high energy and pressing.

He's technically sound as they come and is certainly someone who understands his role in the team, but I think he's prone to lapses in concentration, struggles to stay focused. There's a place for him in the squad if he can iron out those issues, but he's somewhat of a liability at present.
 
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Random Task said:
Last night was a typical Fred performance, a catalogue of errors mixed with high energy and pressing.

He's technically sound as they come and is certainly someone who understands his role in the team, but I think he's prone to lapses in concentration, struggles to stay focused. There's a place for him in the squad if he can iron out those issues, but he's somewhat of a liability at present.
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I think that's a great sign though, he can be having one of the worst halfs of his career but he didn't let it get to him. He didn't drop his head and sulk or hide. Most players would have probably subbed themselves at HT with that type of performance.

He just kept running and pressing, eventually his third man run into the box paid off, he kept his cool and slotted it to Bruno.

2nd half again another great 3rd man run into the box to earn the penalty. He then makes a goal saving block on Saka to keep us 3-2 up.

I think we all know by now Fred has this in him for some reason, hopefully the coaching staff can Iron it out.
 
b82REZ said:
I think a lot of people will change their tune about our little Brazilian over the coming months.

Been MoTM in our last two games.
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Me too. A really strange player but I think he’ll show his best side under Rangnick.
 
Judas said:
I just don’t get how you can him watch every game and think this. To me a very good player doesn’t make nearly the amount of mistakes as he does, passes better, shoots better, does most things better.

I’ve been one of his biggest critics admittedly, but I do think there’s a chance he’s reborn under Ralf and he’s played in a position and way that suits him much better.
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I just don’t think he’s the problem. He plays in a dysfunctional midfield and team in general while having to carry McTominay game after game. He can be sloppy but by the same token he wins the ball back so much in key areas. He’s the only player we have who sniffs out danger and actually when on it he’s really not that bad on the ball either. Very underrated I think.
 
Judas said:
I just don’t get how you can him watch every game and think this. To me a very good player doesn’t make nearly the amount of mistakes as he does, passes better, shoots better, does most things better.

I’ve been one of his biggest critics admittedly, but I do think there’s a chance he’s reborn under Ralf and he’s played in a position and way that suits him much better.
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To me we’ve played him as a DM and played to his weaknesses rather than his strengths, like he played at his last club.

Even during that time, aside from some higher profile errors that seem to stick in peoples minds, he’s been more useful in midfield than any of Matic, Scott and Pogba (in this system/squad.)

Imo things would have been a lot worse for us without him, rather than this thinking that he is a leading cause for our problems.

He’s the only one that can tackle well for a start, has more energy than the rest of our midfield combined, turns over possession and springs us forward. He does this almost every game while closing down and pressing more than any other player.

He’s not the problem imo and I believe we will see the best of him under Ralf for the reasons outlined above. He’s not outstanding but in this midfield he’s a nailed on starter.
 
I feel sorry for the ones that think Rangnick would magically turn Fred into world beater. His ball control, passing and shooting is championship standard, and you can't polish a turd,
 
Kostov said:
Yes I knighthood should follow, what a performance.
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You're writing absolute nonsense. His passing might need improving and he may not be the most technical of players but that is not his role.

He's not supposed to be our new Carrick, he provides the energy. Now McTominay is the useless one here since he's slow to react (short of 2-3 chest-pumping tackles a game), doesn't progress the play and doesn't cover for Fred's liabilities.

All in all, you don't understand the player and how he can fit in a system by someone like Rangnick. He may not be the best in the world but he sure as hell is not terrible.

In fact, his best performances came when he played next to a still-mobile Matic at the start of 2020 who provides what Fed couldn't.
 
AlexUTD said:
Fred`s pressing and interception game is way better than Mctominay so Fred will get more playtime under Ralf than Mctominay.
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I agree. And if Rangnick can coach him to use his brain a bit more when he has the ball, he may yet remain a regular starter.
 
Rightnr said:
You're writing absolute nonsense. His passing might need improving and he may not be the most technical of players but that is not his role.

He's not supposed to be our new Carrick, he provides the energy. Now McTominay is the useless one here since he's slow to react (short of 2-3 chest-pumping tackles a game), doesn't progress the play and doesn't cover for Fred's liabilities.

All in all, you don't understand the player and how he can fit in a system by someone like Rangnick. He may not be the best in the world but he sure as hell is not terrible.

In fact, his best performances came when he played next to a still-mobile Matic at the start of 2020 who provides what Fed couldn't.
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Not as much nonsense as you pal. His passing might need improving? You think that Sherlock? He's not supposed to be our new Carrick, maybe he is not supposed to play as a CM at all, and if that first 40 minutes was not terrible by Fred you need to go and buy yourself a new pair of glasses. He had a 79% pass success, and he hardly played Bruno esque passes, and since you have such a hard on to bring McTominay into it again, when Fred did not know his head from his arse yesterday, McT held that midfield together.
 
Kostov said:
Not as much nonsense as you pal. His passing might need improving? You think that Sherlock? He's not supposed to be our new Carrick, maybe he is not supposed to play as a CM at all, and if that first 40 minutes was not terrible by Fred you need to go and buy yourself a new pair of glasses. He had a 79% pass success, and he hardly played Bruno esque passes, and since you have such a hard on to bring McTominay into it again, when Fred did not know his head from his arse yesterday, McT held that midfield together.
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Yeah, we're done here. Maybe you need a course in English to understand what I've written. Pal.
 
Rightnr said:
Yeah, we're done here. Maybe you need a course in English to understand what I've written. Pal.
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Yeah I might and you might need to watch a bit more football, you just wrote that the role of this CM was not passing or technical, yeah right, but he brings energy. :lol:

He is the red bull of this team it seems, brings the energy and shit passing together with shit ball control, and of course this "energy" compensates for all that.
 
Rightnr said:
You're writing absolute nonsense. His passing might need improving and he may not be the most technical of players but that is not his role.

He's not supposed to be our new Carrick, he provides the energy. Now McTominay is the useless one here since he's slow to react (short of 2-3 chest-pumping tackles a game), doesn't progress the play and doesn't cover for Fred's liabilities.

All in all, you don't understand the player and how he can fit in a system by someone like Rangnick. He may not be the best in the world but he sure as hell is not terrible.

In fact, his best performances came when he played next to a still-mobile Matic at the start of 2020 who provides what Fred couldn't.
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This is why I say we need to get the right CDM.

Every single one of our centre midfielders- be it Pogba, Fred, VDB, McTominay or even Bruno - all need a proper CDM that can guard the space for them to go do their work in their own way.

Can't just be buying another CM with 'some defensive ability' just because their the new hot property.
 
Kostov said:
Yeah I might and you might need to watch a bit more football, you just wrote that the role of this CM was not passing or technical, yeah right, but he brings energy. :lol:

He is the red bull of this team it seems, brings the energy and shit passing together with shit ball control, and of course this "energy" compensates for all that.
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Well, he plays the role well enough for Brazil with a proper sitter. Since we cannot buy a whole new squad, we keep what's usable and since that doesn't include McTominay, I'd play him and Donny.

Not sure how you've passed judgment on a player who albeit inconsistent has been our best player against Chelsea (that wasn't McT that's for sure) and Arsenal.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Why is Fred so fecking hated. :lol: He’s a very good player in my opinion, doesn’t get anywhere near the plaudits he deserves.
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He's unpredictable and very up and down in his performances. He was heavily involved last night, both positively and negatively.

I think there's probably a place for him in the squad beside a more composed partner, but most people believe we can do better than having a starting midfield of Fred and McTominay.

And we should have more quality in there. Neither are good enough, but relatively speaking Fred probably has more qualities than McTominay. But it's not exactly where we want to be, is it? Discussing which of our midfielders is the least of our liabilities in such a crucial area.
 
I can completely understand all criticism of Fred, despite me being a supporter of him.

What I do find weird is the level of dislike some people seem to have for him on here, when he plays with energy, passion and personality every game. Never shies away from the ball or a challenge and covers a lot of ground. Vocal with the opposing side and ref. Normally you'd think those things would make him a bit of a fan favourite and make people have more of a soft spot for him, error prone or not.
 
As for the op, Fred is nowhere near being the worst. What a dumb take to start with.
 
eire-red said:
He's unpredictable and very up and down in his performances. He was heavily involved last night, both positively and negatively.

I think there's probably a place for him in the squad beside a more composed partner, but most people believe we can do better than having a starting midfield of Fred and McTominay.

And we should have more quality in there. Neither are good enough, but relatively speaking Fred probably has more qualities than McTominay. But it's not exactly where we want to be, is it? Discussing which of our midfielders is the least of our liabilities in such a crucial area.
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That’s just it though I think Fred is more than good enough in a decent system/team.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
You can't be a regular starter in Brazil's team and be shit, you'd be dropped (or never even make it).
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Eh. While I wouldn't go so far as to call Fred shit, Brazil are nowhere near the force that they were in the past. They haven't had a sniff of the World Cup since they won it in 2002. Their midfield in particular is not impressive at all, so getting double-digit caps doesn't mean a whole lot. Bit like the way Marcos Rojo has over 60 caps for Argentina and yet his name is all over the thread with the worst United XI of the modern era. I think Fred is harshly judged here, but getting 23 caps for the least powerful Brazil team in living memory does not mean much.
 
Fred is the only Utd midfielder who would have a hope of getting into city and liverpools midfield.

you know, the teams we are desperately trying to catch up to?

the teams we’ve brought a new manager and style in to combat? Wake up guys. Pogba and Martial FC is dead. Walking around the pitch is over. Fred was just a precursor to that. We need more like fred, not less.
 
No for me its Mctominay if your specifically talking outfield players but does anyone remember that absolute calamatous goalkeeper Massimo Taibi ? He was BAD
 
Kostov said:
Not as much nonsense as you pal. His passing might need improving? You think that Sherlock? He's not supposed to be our new Carrick, maybe he is not supposed to play as a CM at all, and if that first 40 minutes was not terrible by Fred you need to go and buy yourself a new pair of glasses. He had a 79% pass success, and he hardly played Bruno esque passes, and since you have such a hard on to bring McTominay into it again, when Fred did not know his head from his arse yesterday, McT held that midfield together.
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McTominay could not hold his own arse let alone a midfield.
 
Bobade said:
I can completely understand all criticism of Fred, despite me being a supporter of him.

What I do find weird is the level of dislike some people seem to have for him on here, when he plays with energy, passion and personality every game. Never shies away from the ball or a challenge and covers a lot of ground. Vocal with the opposing side and ref. Normally you'd think those things would make him a bit of a fan favourite and make people have more of a soft spot for him, error prone or not.
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Energy and passion do not offset individual errors
Dansk said:
Eh. While I wouldn't go so far as to call Fred shit, Brazil are nowhere near the force that they were in the past. They haven't had a sniff of the World Cup since they won it in 2002. Their midfield in particular is not impressive at all, so getting double-digit caps doesn't mean a whole lot. Bit like the way Marcos Rojo has over 60 caps for Argentina and yet his name is all over the thread with the worst United XI of the modern era. I think Fred is harshly judged here, but getting 23 caps for the least powerful Brazil team in living memory does not mean much.
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They never really had world class CM. Mostly. FB, forward, attacking mids
Ali Dia said:
Fred is the only Utd midfielder who would have a hope of getting into city and liverpools midfield.

you know, the teams we are desperately trying to catch up to?

the teams we’ve brought a new manager and style in to combat? Wake up guys. Pogba and Martial FC is dead. Walking around the pitch is over. Fred was just a precursor to that. We need more like fred, not less.
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Why would he have more chance of getting into Liverpool or City? What are his strengths?
 
Fred isn't world class, but he's damn good at few things and gives his all for the team each and every game. He's a great player to have in the squad.
 
He's a terrible footballer, his inability at times to make simple passes is infuriating. He does bring energy which we need, but for all his energy he and McT continually fail to track midfield runners, Odegaard for the Arsenal goal runs of the back of Fred who is facing Partey. Partey plays the pass out wide, Fred should be sprinting back to cover the runner, instead he momentarily follows the ball and by the time he adjusts, it's too late. Might sound rough on him, and in fairness he's not DM by trade, but it's fine margins in this game.His energy is better utilised further up the pitch as evidenced by his involvement in 2 of our goals
 
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