That's fascinating .. thanks for that. I've been defending him a bit here but my score personally was 10 bad involvements, 5 good involvements and a few neutral ones.
He has had a proper shit first half.
Is Fred the worst regular starter for United in living memory?
- Thread starter PeteManic
- Start date
That's fascinating .. thanks for that. I've been defending him a bit here but my score personally was 10 bad involvements, 5 good involvements and a few neutral ones.
He has had a proper shit first half.
No it’s because he was shite and not fit for a top team. Scoring goals from route one football isn’t my idea of good.
Can we count 16/17 Rooney ? That was bad... to be fair to him, until 2015-16 he was just a little bit past his peak, but 16-17 was bad.
There were some good interceptions that are missing. One started a good counterattack straight away, but Rashford messed it up.
Worse starters: Fellaini, McTominay, Kagawa, Herrera (was ok, but Fred is better player)
Fred is key to our squad at the moment and will be very good under Rangnick who will know exactly how to use him.
How many players you know that make so many mistakes, but still pull out almost motm worthy game in the end? As you can see from the video he should play higher up the pitch and do the things he is good at - pressing and winning the ball back quickly. His movement and runs in the box are underrated.
Last edited:
16/17 he was at least benched. 15/16 he was under the "My captain shall always play" protection.
We're probably not going to sign 2 new CMs and we have 5 plausible options as an 8 (Fred, Pogba, VDB, McTom, Bruno) under Rangnick and Fred is unreliable in possession but he's a Brazil starter for a reason and he's a great presser/tackler in midfield, so I don't see us looking to replace him, rather just have Van De Beek challenge him:
If it's a 4-2-2-2:
Front 2: Cristiano-Rashford-Mason-Elanga
Attacking 2: Sancho-Bruno-VDB-Diallo maybe Pogba
Midfield 2: Fred-VDB-McTominay maybe Pogba
then I think we sign a DM type and Fred or VDB fight for or rotate as the more advanced of the 2. McTominay becomes the backup #6.
So yeah, I think Fred is probably safe for at least a season, maybe two and we look for a holding partner type for him like Rice or maybe a cheaper option if Rangnick loves them, which would maybe be Zakaria, Haidara (not a holder but apparently he's played deep 3 times for Leipzig this year and 7 times as a CM and we're rumored to want him now and it's not like Kampl and Sabitzer were a big midfield partnership) or Renato Sanches or someone like that.
If it's a 4-2-2-2:
Front 2: Cristiano-Rashford-Mason-Elanga
Attacking 2: Sancho-Bruno-VDB-Diallo maybe Pogba
Midfield 2: Fred-VDB-McTominay maybe Pogba
then I think we sign a DM type and Fred or VDB fight for or rotate as the more advanced of the 2. McTominay becomes the backup #6.
So yeah, I think Fred is probably safe for at least a season, maybe two and we look for a holding partner type for him like Rice or maybe a cheaper option if Rangnick loves them, which would maybe be Zakaria, Haidara (not a holder but apparently he's played deep 3 times for Leipzig this year and 7 times as a CM and we're rumored to want him now and it's not like Kampl and Sabitzer were a big midfield partnership) or Renato Sanches or someone like that.
Stupid thread.
This?
I've always liked Fred to be honest, he's got good potential. I just think he hasn't been used properly and that's down to coaching. Even the past few games he's played fairly well, especially in a more attacking role. I do think Rangnick will get the best out of him and most players, Bruno I think will absolutely shine.
I feel there is a fair amount of hyperbole around Fred to be honest. He's definitely not the worst regular starter we've had, you only have to look at his current midfield partner to see that.
He's a player who has been used incorrectly. I struggle to comprehend how both Mourinho and Ole identified him as a defensive midfielder. He looks infinitely more useful when playing higher up the pitch, as he does for Brazil and did for Shakhtah.
I'm hopeful the structure Rangnick implements will make it easier for him as he wont have players hiding behind the opposition or mindlessly running away from him as we see currently.
He's a player who has been used incorrectly. I struggle to comprehend how both Mourinho and Ole identified him as a defensive midfielder. He looks infinitely more useful when playing higher up the pitch, as he does for Brazil and did for Shakhtah.
I'm hopeful the structure Rangnick implements will make it easier for him as he wont have players hiding behind the opposition or mindlessly running away from him as we see currently.
It would be really interesting if someone could post a stat on how many times he's missed passes and lost posession during all his games here. I'd bet it would be top 10 worst in the clubs history. He is very energetic, that's all he has. On the ball he is an absolute calamity and constantly puts the team in bad positions with his misplaced passes, many of which lead to straight counter attacks.
He needs to be replaced asap. It's a detriment to the team playing him in the middle of the park. We need players in there who are comfortable with the ball and I can't think of a player in my lifetime at this club who gives the ball away as much as him.
He needs to be replaced asap. It's a detriment to the team playing him in the middle of the park. We need players in there who are comfortable with the ball and I can't think of a player in my lifetime at this club who gives the ball away as much as him.
Matic?
McT hold that midfielder like a cracked rooftop with his sideways passing and crap positioning. Play Fred with a proper cdm and we would be a better team. Plus get McT as far as possible from the first team. If he is some random non academy player he wont get as much time here. If McT play for newcastle or everton no one in their right mind would push us to sign him to start in our midfielder. He would be just another generic brexit midfielder nobody gives a feck
One I can remember off the top of my head was towards the end where he recovered it at the edge of our box and lobbed it over the Arsenal attacker to start off a counter attack.
Not able to watch the full match back but thanks for the link.
He could play with the best cdm in history and he would still constantly give the ball away. Both him and McTominay are mediocre at best. Fred is abyssmal with the ball.
C'mon now. The majority of his goals were far from route one football.
What’s living memory?
Did Van Gaal actually say that he would always play him ? I don't remember that being exactly the case
@57:28
Answer to the topic. Yes.
He may cover his lack of skills with really nice agression, pressing and engagement, but in the end of the day he is just poor with the ball. He makes wrong choices and lot of mistakes. And finally he is being outmuscled every game, it's PL not Copacabana Beach League.
He may cover his lack of skills with really nice agression, pressing and engagement, but in the end of the day he is just poor with the ball. He makes wrong choices and lot of mistakes. And finally he is being outmuscled every game, it's PL not Copacabana Beach League.
I am not the biggest Fred-fan in the world - but he is nowhere as bad as some make him out to be. He just has that same problem a lot of our players have - he is once or twice in each game not where he should be defensively.
I have genuinely hated Fred for the last 2 years. I don't think he's had the consistency to back up his style of play. He'd do 2 good games and follow it up with a howler. In every other game, for his 10 good actions, he'll cock it up in a pivotal moment. Be it when you're 3 v 2 away at Chelsea and choosing to shoot when CRISTIANO is next to you, or getting thrown off the ball for a Newcastle counterattack and goal.
He needs structure. And that is why I feel under Rangnick, he may yet thrive. He plays for Brazil over and over again and there's a reason for it. He's a relentless presser with good fighting qualities. Under Rangnick, he will be given a clear order on what to do with the ball. No more dilly-dallying, no more laissez-faire decision making. Press. Tackle. Pass forward. That's it. Fred seems like a simple guy, an honest guy. He may yet surprise I feel.
He needs structure. And that is why I feel under Rangnick, he may yet thrive. He plays for Brazil over and over again and there's a reason for it. He's a relentless presser with good fighting qualities. Under Rangnick, he will be given a clear order on what to do with the ball. No more dilly-dallying, no more laissez-faire decision making. Press. Tackle. Pass forward. That's it. Fred seems like a simple guy, an honest guy. He may yet surprise I feel.
I can remember Peter Davenport.
Totally agree. Whilst he does win the ball well, as midfielders should as a basic part of the job spec, he is just not good enough at passing the bloody thing, which is also a rather key part of a midfielders/footballers role.
And the fact he is 1st choice for Brazil says plenty about their chances of winning the World Cup next year. Feck all.
This. I am in the same boat with you. Fred has been appaling and crap especially last year. Me and my mates were bashing him almost every game. But I still see some redeeming qualities of his play. I think people here will be surprised when he flourishes under Rangnick. He suits the high pressing style so much instead of Ole zombie structureless football. However I dont see the same with McT. He has no redeeming qualities whatsoever as a midfielder. Fellaini is 10x the player McT is and as much as his fans hate it, he wont even reach the level of Fellaini (which I personally think even not good enough for United)
He's absolute shite, same as Mctominay. Who's the worst out the 2 is hard to say, atleast Fred dosnt hide i suppose.
Agree to disagree, I’m so far from thinking Fellaini was good enough for Utd. One of the worst players I’ve seen at the club.
There was also Fred tackle in 1st half when we had a good chance but Ronaldo pass do gk rather then pass to Rashford on the right.
The issue I think with Fred is like most players, they become labelled and they stick. We then look for it as a point of reference 'feckin Fred again' like he's the only player that makes a mistake. Then you look at the stats and you see, it doesn't match the eye test as we have completely ignored the 80% he has done. I hear mixed bag from Fred against Arsenal, some poor passes etc....feck me didn't realise that he was playing for prime Barca with everyone else was so perfect?
In a two man midfield, with Bruno playing like a false 9, and Scott going AWOL, who is bloody left to cover the midfield being dragged from pillar to post? Fred at times lets himself down but he deserves to be cut some slack, he often doing his work along with others in Midfield. This isn't new either and people for he was the only recognised midfielder when Scott, Matic and Pogs were out injured for months just before we signed Bruno in the January. Week in week out, Fred was putting in MOTM performances.
In a two man midfield, with Bruno playing like a false 9, and Scott going AWOL, who is bloody left to cover the midfield being dragged from pillar to post? Fred at times lets himself down but he deserves to be cut some slack, he often doing his work along with others in Midfield. This isn't new either and people for he was the only recognised midfielder when Scott, Matic and Pogs were out injured for months just before we signed Bruno in the January. Week in week out, Fred was putting in MOTM performances.
I like how keen he is on the pitch but his overexcitement to press, when no one else does, exposes us so much in central midfield. Players easily beat his press and then have 30/40 yards to run into to. That’s been our biggest issue this season. Numerous times that’s situation happened to us against Arsenal.
He’s also prone to stupid mistakes, he’s not brilliant on the ball either. In all his traits don’t make him a particularly good central midfielder.
Saying that I think he’s been one our best players in recent weeks. Would much rather start Fred over McTominay at present.
He’s also prone to stupid mistakes, he’s not brilliant on the ball either. In all his traits don’t make him a particularly good central midfielder.
Saying that I think he’s been one our best players in recent weeks. Would much rather start Fred over McTominay at present.
The 73rd minute where he leaves Fred for dead and passes to Auba , look where Martinelli ends up
luckily Auba doesn’t see himI agree. Playing for Utd and Brazil means absolutely feck all in world football. How can a player who can't do the basics like pass the ball play for both? Weird that?
McTominay is far worse than Fred, even with the 500 mistakes a game at least Fred breaks up play and goes forward. All McTom does is run around like a headless chicken, might aswell bring in Darren Campbell or Usain Bolt...they could do the same thing but faster
What stupid mistakes?
Fred is the best CM post 2017.
He's not worse than Rooney was for the last 3-4 years of his Utd career.
He gets more stick than he deserves.
He gets more stick than he deserves.
My guess is Rangnick isn't going to want to play him much unless he absolutely has to, though I guess he might be 100% sure we're buying a DM in January or the summer so developing someone for the role isn't high priority. Mobility and seemingly agility in midfield is prized in Rangnick ball and he's all about younger players generally anyways and we're going to need a backup #6 next year and in the future unless we buy 2 of them (which seems less likely, though I guess if we don't buy Rice and do buy an 38 we could also still spend less on a #6), so that's Fred, McTominay or VDB unless Rangnick falls in love with Garner or Galbraith or someone. I think Fred-McTominay or Fred-VDB or even Pogba in the 2 as he has played in a 2 for France at times are more likely.
Matic is 33, he's not been good for 2 years now and he's slow. I just don't see Rangnick bothering with him a ton apart from putting him out there to show what someone following his instructions looks like. He might still be a useful player for a mid-table side playing a system suiting him perfectly with some athletic partners around him, but I think that's about it at this stage.
Figuring out if Pogba should stay and play in a 2 if he and the club want it, if Fred-VDB as a pairing works or McTominay-VDB or just figuring out if McTominay is good enough to be our giant, young, no transfer fee backup #6 behind the new one we have to bring in would all be higher priorities if they looked like plausible ideas in training.