Is Fred the worst regular starter for United in living memory?

Only if the definition of living memory has completely changed.

I'm 42, so about halfway through an average lifespan, am alive last time I checked and remember plenty who were worse.
 
paulscholes18 said:
Also played his part in both of Arsenal's goals.
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Good edit.

First one is quite a ridiculous incident, David goes down like a sack of potatoes and instead of closing down Rashford and Lindelof mysteriously run away from any chance of blocking a shot.

Odegaard's goal there's loads of people at fault. Farcical defending.

He did block that shot late on when I would bet my left nut 80% of our players wouldn't bust a gut like that.

Would give Motm to Cristiano simply because the goals needs to get scored, but we wouldn't have won that game without Fred.
 
Poborsky's hair said:
If we go down a break down every player and judge him by the mistakes, it will be very difficult to praise any player really, because every palyer makae plenty of mistakes in the run of games and today, except for defenders bar Telles but in the end he stepped up in the second half and basically won us the game again by borderline MOTM contribution with two assists and a great block in between some great play in the second half and less impressive in the first. You can't really blame a player like that.
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Frequency of mistakes is often what separates top teams from those 12 points behind the leaders. It's not just Fred because I'm not one to bash him, it's the amount of times our players lose the ball in easy possession that is beyond frustrating. The sort of scenarios where you think "how could a professional footballer lose the ball there?" Now I know all teams do it, but it comes down to frequency. It honestly feels like every 30 seconds one of our players does something unbelievably stupid to give the ball away. If we can cut out these basic errors by 50% it makes such a massive difference, we'll get more attacking transitions, make more chances, our defence will be under less pressure, we'll give away less set pieces, we'll sustain more attacks.

To be fair, we've not actually seen these players under a good coach yet. I don't think Tuchel has transformed the technical ability of his players in his time at Chelsea, but they sure as hell pass the ball a lot better than did before he arrived. If a coach can come in and give the team a structure and guidance in and out of possession then you'd hope we may start to look like a completely different team in the same way Chelsea have.
 
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antohan said:
Feck me sideways, what does he have to do for people to cut him some slack? That's two assists tonight and ultimately the difference between winning or losing.
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Said in another thread, I think he's a good player playing for a team that's not coached well and/or doesn't use him in a set up that uses his abilities.

You can't be a regular starter in Brazil's team and be shit, you'd be dropped (or never even make it).
 
McFred are terrible. If Fred had a decent CM who could play like Rice or Bissouma for example he would probably look better. McTom I dont know. He seems to have a good game 7/10 2 bad games 4/10 and 2 average games 5/10 at a time. Hes 25 as well so just off entering his best years 26-30. Hopefully RR can get a better tune out of them, or move them on in the summer after buying better.
 
Dominos said:
Frequency of mistakes is often what separates top teams from those 12 points behind the leaders. It's not just Fred because I'm not one to bash him, it's the amount of times our players lose the ball in easy possession that is beyond frustrating. The sort of scenarios where you think "how could a professional footballer lose the ball there?" Now I know all teams do it, but it comes down to frequency. It honestly feels like every 30 seconds one of our players does something unbelievably stupid to give the ball away. If we can cut out these basic errors by 50% it makes such a massive difference, we'll get more attacking transitions, make more chances, our defence will be under less pressure, we'll give away less set pieces, we'll sustain more attacks.

To be fair, we've not actually seen these players under a good coach yet. I don't think Tuchel has transformed the technical ability of his players in his time at Chelsea, but they sure as hell pass the ball a lot better than did before he arrived. If a coach can come in and give the team a structure and guidance in and out of possession then you'd hope we may start to look like a completely different team in the same way Chelsea have.
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That's obviously a fair view and I agree with that the same way I agree with the rest. We are too sloppy in possession but sometimes the game is played in a very high tempo in terms of pressing and players can have bad spells, the important thing is if they can improve longterm and even in the very game and Fred often does that which I thing shows it's just a deviation from normal and that he's mentally very solid.
 
antohan said:
Good edit.

First one is quite a ridiculous incident, David goes down like a sack of potatoes and instead of closing down Rashford and Lindelof mysteriously run away from any chance of blocking a shot.

Odegaard's goal there's loads of people at fault. Farcical defending.

He did block that shot late on when I would bet my left nut 80% of our players wouldn't bust a gut like that.

Would give Motm to Cristiano simply because the goals needs to get scored, but we wouldn't have won that game without Fred.
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Nice reply, can't argue with any of it.
 
Fred MOTM, yet this thread is lively...?
 
the thing with Fred is he will track someone back win the ball and then just pass it back to them under no pressure or give away a needless corner and do things like that all the time, but really all our players are like that, do something good then immediately do something stupid at the back of it.
 
An iffy start but was very solid in the 2nd half. Maybe they doped his tea or something but Fred had a very good game for the last 45 minutes.
 
He's the worst and at times the most effective midfielder I've ever witnessed.
 
FFS he has some really poor games and mainly decent games with the odd exceptionally good game. But if Fred is worst player in living memory then you can only have been watching for a season, and even then he wouldn't be.
 
Personally I think he’s really good. His pressing is superb, and his work rate is the only thing holding that midfield together. He’s much better than McTominay. He looks even better now he’s being allowed to play higher up the pitch.
 
acnumber9 said:
Yeah but the only one we have is Matic. And he can’t play every game. So it’s a hindrance more often than it’s a benefit.
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Yep that's a problem in itself, but it doesn't have to be an actual DM, it could be a 3rd CB or it could be some adjustment to the tactics. Ultimately I believe the current tactical meta is having 4 players blocking off various defensive zones to prevent counter attacks.

e.g., for Chelsea it's
[ Rest of the attack interchanging etc.]
------------------ Jorginho / Kante-----------------------
---- Rudger ---------- Silva ---------- Chalobah -----

Many ways to achieve this with 4 ATB. Fullbacks can take turns to bomb forward, so both will never be high up the pitch at the same time.
 
Poborsky's hair said:
If we go down a break down every player and judge him by the mistakes, it will be very difficult to praise any player really, because every palyer makae plenty of mistakes in the run of games and today, except for defenders bar Telles but in the end he stepped up in the second half and basically won us the game again by borderline MOTM contribution with two assists and a great block in between some great play in the second half and less impressive in the first. You can't really blame a player like that.

Imagine he didn't have to spend his last three years playing out of position and with Sunday league athlete Matic, headless chicken McTominay or constantly switching off Pogba but most importantly in a system with no system, where he's the only one player doing the defensive game properly but totally out of sync with the rest of the team.

Easily the most important and underrated player for us the last three years. He will absolutely thrive under Rangnick and the next manager, so I am happy for him, he we will finally gets his appreciation. Still has a lot of fuel left in his tank, best athlete and the most commited player in the team as well.
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Top post. Agree with everything except the Matic bit.
 
The hate Fred gets is incredible. This guy can play a big role in a top side. Everyone here is so incredibly biased against him and I don't understand why.

he's class, honestly. One of our most important players. I hope the new manager can get the best out of him, as well as the rest of the squad.
 
I think he is class. Always tries his best. I think Ralf is going to love him.
 
He is nowhere near that. Now McTominay and Maguire...
 
Fred will show you his best and his absolute worse, multiple times, in the same game.
 
He e terrible, and all his defender can say is “but McT is worse”. That first half we witnessed today was criminal and should have been subbed off based on merit.
 
For me he's just a worse Herrera. Busy player, high-energy and useful in pressing.

But he's worse at passing, worse at game-awareness and worse at snideness.

Neither are good enough for a Manchester United midfield.

Some of his passing tonight was worse than Sunday league.

We like him (and Herrera to be fair) because they try really hard, not because they're what we should be aspiring to.
 
One of the worst midfielders among starters in the premier league. Honestly
 
Kostov said:
He e terrible, and all his defender can say is “but McT is worse”. That first half we witnessed today was criminal and should have been subbed off based on merit.
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Still ended the game as our best midfielder comfortably, and arguably MOTM. Definitely MVP
 
Finished the game strongly and set up the goal. However, there were/are spells when he is truly dreadful, and if we want to be successful both our CM's need replacing.
 
He is just such a weird and confusing player. Been with us for so long and I still cannot get my head around what to think about him.
 
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