Iran v US confrontation

4bars said:
The same experts that Trump have that make him pull out of the Paris agreement because the Global Warming is an hoax?

Soon he will pull out NASA funding because his experts will tell him that the earth is flat

Trump's experts don't know more than the JPOA experts (US included). Trump "experts" only care about themselves
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Can you provide proof on your last paragraph...didn't think so, absolutely garbage emotional politics from yourself there.
 
Van Gaalacticos said:
Fine lol. List them on here instead of some random reddit thread that essentially has nothing to say. I'd say you have nothing to come back at me with
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TWITTER:

“I’m going to do very restrained, if I use it at all, I’m going to do very restrained.” – President-elect Trump to “60 Minutes” in November 2016 about his use of Twitter as president.

One year into Trump’s presidency, hardly a day passes without Trump using Twitter against perceived adversaries, including Republican and Democratic lawmakers; FBI officials he thinks are out to undermine his presidency; and journalists he says publish “fake news” about him. One of Trump’s most recent Twitter targets: “Sloppy Steve” Bannon.
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ROY MOORE:
Pro
“Spoke to Roy Moore of Alabama last night for the first time. Sounds like a really great guy who ran a fantastic race. He will help to #MAGA!” – Sept. 27, 2017, tweet, referencing his “Make America Great Again” campaign slogan, after Moore won the Republican runoff for a U.S. Senate seat from Alabama.
Con
“The reason I originally endorsed Luther Strange (and his numbers went up mightily), is that I said Roy Moore will not be able to win the General Election. I was right! Roy worked hard but the deck was stacked against him!” – Dec. 13, 2017, tweet after Moore lost to Democrat Doug Jones.
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Pro
“I like Mr. Bannon. He’s a friend of mine. But Mr. Bannon came on very late. You know that. I went through 17 senators, governors, and I won all the primaries. Mr. Bannon came on very much later than that. And I like him, he’s a good man. He is not a racist, I can tell you that. He’s a good person. He actually gets very unfair press in that regard. But we’ll see what happens with Mr. Bannon. But he’s a good person, and I think the press treats him, frankly, very unfairly.” – Aug. 15, 2017, Trump Tower news conference three days before Bannon was forced out as White House chief strategist.
Con
“Steve Bannon has nothing to do with me or my Presidency. When he was fired, he not only lost his job, he lost his mind.” – Jan. 3, 2018, written statement after derogatory comments about Trump’s daughter Ivanka and eldest son, Don Jr., were attributed to Bannon by the author of an explosive behind-the-scenes book about Trump’s first year.
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Pro
“I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man … Save your energy Rex, we’ll do what has to be done!” – Oct. 2, 2017, tweet.
Con
“We have certainly problems with North Korea, but a lot of good talks are going on right now, a lot of good energy. I see a lot of good energy. I like it very much what I am seeing.” – Jan. 10, 2018, White House news conference.
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OBAMA-WIRETAPPING:

“Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my “wires tapped” in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!” – March 4, 2017, tweet.

“I’d bet a good lawyer could make a great case out of the fact that President Obama was tapping my phones in October, just prior to Election!” – March 4 tweet.

“How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!” – March 4

Trump said weeks later that he meant surveillance, not literal wiretapping, when he made the explosive charge about President Barack Obama.

“When I said wiretapping, it was in quotes. It is just a good description. But wiretapping was in quotes. What I’m talking about is surveillance.” – March 22, 2017, interview with Time magazine.
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FIRING JAMES COMEY:

Trump told FBI Director James Comey in a letter that he had received letters from Attorney General Jeff Sessions and Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein “recommending your dismissal as Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I have accepted their recommendation and you are hereby terminated and removed from office, effective immediately.” – May 9, 2017, letter.

Trump tells NBC News two days later that he had been planning to fire Comey for months. “He made a recommendation but regardless of recommendation I was going to fire Comey.”
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“I’m going to be working for you. I’m not going to have time to play golf.” – Aug. 8, 2016, campaign speech in Ashburn, Virginia.

Since taking office, Trump has spent all or part of most weekends, and some weekdays, at his private golf clubs in northern Virginia, Florida and New Jersey. The White House has a mixed record on confirming when Trump actually plays golf, acknowledging outings with lawmakers and former pro golfers, for example, but refusing to do so at other times – even after photos posted to social media show he was playing golf.
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I can keep going if you want me to

And of course the most recent one is the whole Stormy Daniels payment which he has proven to be lying on several occasions

The man is quite clearly senile
 
User 72192 said:
Are you not able to click on these links yourself? They're mostly direct links to his Twitter account.

Okay, for you, because you seem just as gifted as trumpi himself:











Do you see the issue with these statements?
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No lol. What is your issue? Are you against peaceful protests for example??
 
Van Gaalacticos said:
No lol. What is your issue? Are you against peaceful protests for example??
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User 72192 said:
Excuse me?



You're not able to see how frequently Trump contradicts himself? Ok. Well, I guess it's safe to say then that you're wilfully ignorant, or...well, you know it in any case.
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Definitely willfully ignorant. There's pages upon pages of proof that this man clearly has dementia. He lies almost on a daily basis
 
Captain Obvious said:
I can keep going if you want me to

And of course the most recent one is the whole Stormy Daniels payment which he has proven to be lying on several occasions. The man is quite clearly senile
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What?? Stormy Daniels haha like anyone cares.

Nobody cares abou his twitter either and his supporters think he was right with Bannon and Tillerson. Please go on...
 
berbatrick said:
So, the IAEA in 2003 did not find any evidence of Saddam's WMDs. The only evidence was from the CIA, and MI6 and Mossad agreed with them, that Saddam had WMDs.
Today, the IAEA and Europeans agencies including MI6 do not think there are Iranian nukes, while the CIA and Mossad thinks there are.
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The CIA does?
 
@Van Gaalacticos It's not a question of Trump vs other leaders, but more on what options the rest of countries have.

The JCPoA is a agreement which brings all parties to the table to work out a mutually acceptable solutions. It may be a compromise, but a step in right direction when common interest take priority over the differences.

Economic sanctions (which will replace the JCPoA) are a dreadful way about to go about making change. For example, the most imapcted by Iraqi sanctions was the food industry as Iraq imported 40% of their food. It lead to food scarcity, starvation which affected the common people far more than the government. Same here with Iran, where food and medicines have become so expensive and unavailable to common people. Rather than work for a common goal, it just pushes path sides apart in a ego driven pissing contest that will have no winners.

Why people are objecting is due to fact that Trump thinks he can bully his way into a better deal...which is never going to happen. The geopolitics of the region has been that progress can only be made in small tentative steps and JCPoA is the first few of them. So pulling out of a agreed document is just Trump brandishing his ego where no one apart from him and Bolton can see the benefits.
 
Van Gaalacticos said:
??? Is that the best you could come up with? He seems to have been good enough at reading to release a successful book.
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This book?

220px-Trump_the_art_of_the_deal.jpg


You might be interested in this interview with the other name on the cover , Tony Schwartz

"Trump appeared to have convinced himself that he had written the book. Schwartz recalls thinking, “If he could lie about that on Day One—when it was so easily refuted—he is likely to lie about anything.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all
 
Fearless said:
If Obama did the same things Trump did the world would be in a far better place.

Is that racist enough for your moral nourishment?
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Really? Obama wasn't even President yet and he was already the anti-Christ, Arab, etc. He cried when 6 and 7 year old kids got murdered in school and apparently the tears were fake. And I've said before, no decent human being hates Obama and loves Trump.
 
berbatrick said:
I'm distrusting both Mossad and the CIA, who were wrong on an identical issue last time. I'm distrusting them because they both have vested interests/long-term strategic goals wrt regime change in Iran. I'm distrusting them because agencies without that vested interest contradict them, just like last time.
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Are you referring to Iraq and the alleged WMD here?
 
Fearless said:
If Obama did the same things Trump did the world would be in a far better place.

Is that racist enough for your moral nourishment?
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No, not sure what you're implying.

Obamas biggest controveries was having Dijon mustard on a hotdog and wearing a tan suit, compared to cheating on your pregnant wife with a pornstar, paying off the pornstar with campaign funds then denying it and worst of all, colluding with one of the biggest enemies of the west just to win an eleciton.

Is that factual enough for whatever stupid point you were trying to make?
 
Van Gaalacticos said:
Can you provide proof on your last paragraph...didn't think so, absolutely garbage emotional politics from yourself there.
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Just a few of many

https://armscontrolcenter.org/wp-co...k-An-Expert-The-Iran-Deal-Two-Years-Later.pdf

https://www.nonproliferation.org/cns-experts-respond-to-the-us-withdrawal-from-the-iran-deal/

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/s...ran-complying-nuclear-deal-yes-small-hiccups/

http://www.payvand.com/news/18/jan/1038.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...akh-seeks-talks-with-azerbaijan-idUSKBN1IA2VK


And what have of emotional of pulling out of the agreement when 97% of scientific experts says that Global warming is human cause? What kind of experts trump have? How you can trust them with their blatant partisan interests?
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
@Van Gaalacticos It's not a question of Trump vs other leaders, but more on what options the rest of countries have.

The JCPoA is a agreement which brings all parties to the table to work out a mutually acceptable solutions. It may be a compromise, but a step in right direction when common interest take priority over the differences.

Economic sanctions (which will replace the JCPoA) are a dreadful way about to go about making change. For example, the most imapcted by Iraqi sanctions was the food industry as Iraq imported 40% of their food. It lead to food scarcity, starvation which affected the common people far more than the government. Same here with Iran, where food and medicines have become so expensive and unavailable to common people. Rather than work for a common goal, it just pushes path sides apart in a ego driven pissing contest that will have no winners.

Why people are objecting is due to fact that Trump thinks he can bully his way into a better deal...which is never going to happen. The geopolitics of the region has been that progress can only be made in small tentative steps and JCPoA is the first few of them. So pulling out of a agreed document is just Trump brandishing his ego where no one apart from him and Bolton can see the benefits.
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I can't see any benefits for the US. But I can see why both Israeli and Saudi leaders are quite happy about this. Pulling out of the JCPoA would seem to benefit those two states more than anyone else.
 
User 72192 said:
:lol::lol::lol: no one cares about his Twitter? It's his main way of communicating with the public and do you know who cares most about his Twitter? Yea, godking Trump himself, who else, as he's the center of everything. It's really frustrating to talk to people like you - just like religious people who are blinded by their faith, you're ignorant, not accessable by rational thought process.
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Yes like I said the American people won't vote on the basis of his twitter. They probably like that he is still so outspoken.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
@Van Gaalacticos It's not a question of Trump vs other leaders, but more on what options the rest of countries have.

The JCPoA is a agreement which brings all parties to the table to work out a mutually acceptable solutions. It may be a compromise, but a step in right direction when common interest take priority over the differences.

Economic sanctions (which will replace the JCPoA) are a dreadful way about to go about making change. For example, the most imapcted by Iraqi sanctions was the food industry as Iraq imported 40% of their food. It lead to food scarcity, starvation which affected the common people far more than the government. Same here with Iran, where food and medicines have become so expensive and unavailable to common people. Rather than work for a common goal, it just pushes path sides apart in a ego driven pissing contest that will have no winners.

Why people are objecting is due to fact that Trump thinks he can bully his way into a better deal...which is never going to happen. The geopolitics of the region has been that progress can only be made in small tentative steps and JCPoA is the first few of them. So pulling out of a agreed document is just Trump brandishing his ego where no one apart from him and Bolton can see the benefits.
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Good post BTW. Insightful and appreciated. Cant say that I agree with your sentiments as to why this has taken place but can see what you are saying.

Would be nice if there was a peaceful end to this, I'd love to know what intelligence Trump has got myself, it could be a game changer in this whole conversation. The point seems to be that the US does not believe Iran is as complient as many others are saying they are.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
This book?

220px-Trump_the_art_of_the_deal.jpg


You might be interested in this interview with the other name on the cover , Tony Schwartz

"Trump appeared to have convinced himself that he had written the book. Schwartz recalls thinking, “If he could lie about that on Day One—when it was so easily refuted—he is likely to lie about anything.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all
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Fair enough, I had a feeling that would be a weak point but it was only in response to someone who said he is illiterate
 
4bars said:
Just a few of many

https://armscontrolcenter.org/wp-co...k-An-Expert-The-Iran-Deal-Two-Years-Later.pdf

https://www.nonproliferation.org/cns-experts-respond-to-the-us-withdrawal-from-the-iran-deal/

http://www.politifact.com/georgia/s...ran-complying-nuclear-deal-yes-small-hiccups/

http://www.payvand.com/news/18/jan/1038.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...akh-seeks-talks-with-azerbaijan-idUSKBN1IA2VK


And what have of emotional of pulling out of the agreement when 97% of scientific experts says that Global warming is human cause? What kind of experts trump have? How you can trust them with their blatant partisan interests?
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Not having a convo about global warming though.

You cannot prove Trump has less or less credible intelligence sources than the people you cite. Stop pretending you can.
 
Van Gaalacticos said:
The point seems to be that the US does not believe Iran is as complient as many others are saying they are.
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Either way, it was a joint agreement. Right way would have been for US (as part of the coalition) to work with the coalition to enforce/enhance wherever the drawbacks are. Trump's actions look like knee jerk and literally showcases that US is not willing to work with anyone. Seems to his tone against, Canada, Mexico, Europe etc.
 
Van Gaalacticos said:
Not having a convo about global warming though.

You cannot prove Trump has less or less credible intelligence sources than the people you cite. Stop pretending you can.
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Errr...So US people that personally are working in the surveillance of the JPOA and none partisan security experts is none credible sources? did you even open the links?
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
Either way, it was a joint agreement. Right way would have been for US (as part of the coalition) to work with the coalition to enforce/enhance wherever the drawbacks are. Trump's actions look like knee jerk and literally showcases that US is not willing to work with anyone. Seems to his tone against, Canada, Mexico, Europe etc.
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To be fair I see what you mean but it' not really in Trump’s nature to settle into talks and negotiate. He's maybe taken it a bit too far by completely violating the agreement but agree with the reasoning behind it though negotiations would have perhaps been the better option for now...unless he's tried and done that behind closed doors, doubtful but maybe.
 
4bars said:
Errr...So US people that personally are working in the surveillance of the JPOA and none partisan security experts is none credible sources? did you even open the links?
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I'm not saying they aren't credible, I'm saying you and nobody else on this forum knows what intelligence is credible and who is providing the most credible information regarding this. In Iraq we were assured they did have WMDS and now we seem to be told that everyone (except US, Israel & SA) thinks Iran don't have any. You just don't know enough to say, there is clearly intelligence you and I are not party to.
 
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Eboue said:
Give specific examples, say your 3-4 policies of hos that you support the most.
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Defending the 2nd amendment in the US
Stopping immigration from the 7 countries that didn't provide background checks of potential migrants.
Getting rid of Obamacare
Slashing US corporate tax rate and taxpayer rates.

I like them all, which of his policies is your least favourite?
 
Silva said:
Oh, come on. He gave Michael Wolf unfettered access to the white house because he liked the photo accompanying his negative article about Trump. It's likely he hasn't read a tweet start to end.
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DId alright in the end though didn't he. Are people seriously questioning his literacy?
 
Van Gaalacticos said:
Defending the 2nd amendment in the US
Stopping immigration from the 7 countries that didn't provide background checks of potential migrants.
Getting rid of Obamacare
Slashing US corporate tax rate and taxpayer rates.

I like them all, which of his policies is your least favourite?
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Calling Mexicans rapists, taking away healthcare from people, ramping up deportations, sexually assaulting women, mocking disabled people, etc
 
Van Gaalacticos said:
Defending the 2nd amendment in the US
Stopping immigration from the 7 countries that didn't provide background checks of potential migrants.
Getting rid of Obamacare
Slashing US corporate tax rate and taxpayer rates.

I like them all, which of his policies is your least favourite?
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What should the alternative be? Because without any it's not really an actual policy, just a vague intention to dismantle anything Obama did.
 
Van Gaalacticos said:
I'm not saying they aren't credible, I'm saying you and nobody else on this forum knows what intelligence is credible and who is providing the most credible information regarding this. In Iraq we were assured they did have WMDS and now we seem to be told that everyone (except US, Israel & SA) thinks Iran don't have any. You just don't know enough to say, there is clearly intelligence you and I are not party to.
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I Don't know the intel that trump have, but I know the intel of what experts on the matter says and I know the fake intel that the US and UK government gave to the public to get their way around Iraq Invasion. I know the kind of experts that says the opposite than the whole scientific community. Also we know how untrustworthy Tump is and that he lies more than he talks.

I am sorry but I will stay at the safe side of the occam razor, not about you guessing that trump experts has some sort of intel that says the opposite than the whole international community experts in the JPOC
 
Eboue said:
Calling Mexicans rapists, taking away healthcare from people, ramping up deportations, sexually assaulting women, mocking disabled people, etc
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Who did he sexually assault?

The disabled reporter thing was unfortunate but he didn't target the disabled. He mocked the reporter in the same way he has mocked others. Not great but nothing to get over excited about either.

Depends who he has deported that he shouldn't have? Unless they shouldn't have been there and we're dangers to others. Which deportation did you have an issue with?

I' not saying Mexicans are rapists but illegal immigration leads to crime, it's just a fact due to the difficulties of gaining income when you are an illegal immigrant. He may have been wrong to use those words however.
 
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