Iran v US confrontation

[2cents]

for the most part Europe (certainly Western Europe) has finished with its internal squabbling

Wouldn’t be so sure of that.

The MEA and Africa still in many areas identifies itself by tribe, religion and culture ahead of actual country, just as we used to do in Europe. Until they move on from that there will always be conflict. People would still get killed if the US left them all alone, it would just be a different set of people. It's extremely naive to think if the US never got involved all things would be rosy.

Don’t think anybody is saying everything would be great and peaceful. But the fact is we can’t know for sure. We do know, however, that there have been times in history when the region has been a lot more politically/socially stable (relative to the times) than it is today.

Whatever role tribalism/religious/cultural issues may play, the ‘ancient hatreds’ explanation for the region’s problems shouldn’t be used to obscure the many readily identifiable modern political issues which have driven the conflicts. One of which is undoubtedly the actions of international powers and especially in recent decades the US. There’s no cause to lay the entire blame for these problems at their feet, but there’s less reason to let them off the hook.

 

[11101]

Wouldn’t be so sure of that.

Really? When was the last time anyone in Western Europe started fighting within their own borders. You get the occasional flare up from NI but nothing close to a full on war. We have largely settled on our national identities by now.

Don’t think anybody is saying everything would be great and peaceful. But the fact is we can’t know for sure. We do know, however, that there have been times in history when the region has been a lot more politically/socially stable (relative to the times) than it is today.

They've also been a lot worse. Those regions have not been stable for thousands of years and probably wont be any time soon. If the US had never set foot there it wouldn't be a whole lot different.

I'd far rather the Americans and us would just leave them all alone, but the endless blaming fails to recognise that if that did happen things wouldn't be much different than they are now. Just a different set of people fighting over a different set of things. All that might change is there would be more large scale genocides as warlords and dictators were allowed to do as they please.

 

[2cents]

Really?

Yes really. 74 years is nothing in the grand scheme of things, and there are explanations for Western Europe’s relative stability in that time beyond the idea that we’ve somehow learned to be more civilized than the rest of the world (and especially the Middle East). And a quick look around at European politics right now would suggest that the potential for a lot of unraveling exists across the continent, so it’s probably best not to be smug or complacent on this issue.

 

[Red Defence]

https://news.sky.com/story/gibraltar-detains-super-tanker-carrying-oil-to-syria-11756345

Royal Marines have seized an Iranian supertanker near Gibraltar, supposedly carrying oil from Iran to Syria. From what I read earlier they have been monitoring this tanker for a while now. It is suspected of violating EU and US sanctions.

 

[2cents]

near Gibraltar, supposedly carrying oil from Iran to Syria

Strange route, unless they've a drop or two in west Africa or something along the way.

(edit): ah this may explain it - https://en.radiofarda.com/a/iran-re...verland-as-suez-not-accessible-/29883951.html

 

[Red Defence]

Strange route, unless they've a drop or two in west Africa or something along the way.

(edit): ah this may explain it - https://en.radiofarda.com/a/iran-re...verland-as-suez-not-accessible-/29883951.html

Apparently it travelled all around Africa which is probably what alerted people.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Well, that’s one away around the Suez Canal I guess.

 

[11101]

Strange route, unless they've a drop or two in west Africa or something along the way.

(edit): ah this may explain it - https://en.radiofarda.com/a/iran-re...verland-as-suez-not-accessible-/29883951.html

Pretty sure the explanation is more simple; it's too big for the Suez Canal. Fully laden supertankers always go round the Horn of Africa because the canal is not deep enough for them.

 

[2cents]

Pretty sure the explanation is more simple; it's too big for the Suez Canal. Fully laden supertankers always go round the Horn of Africa because the canal is not deep enough for them.

Thanks, I had no idea this was the case.

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Thanks, I had no idea this was the case.

Probably similar to the reason they have worked out ways to blast another channel through Central America to supplement the Panama Canal. The biggest class of ships no longer fit.

 

[Red Dreams]

I'm thankful this seems to have died down.

No lives must be lost.

 

[Redplane]

I'm thankful this seems to have died down.

No lives must be lost.

I wouldn't be surprised if this comes back with a fury with Epstein apprehended.

 

[2cents]

 

[SteveW]

So has enough consent been manufactured yet or will it take a bit longer?

 

[sun_tzu]

So yes enough consent been manufactured yet it will it take a bit longer?

when does meuller testify... (July 17th I think)
Id guess the airstrikes start a day or two before
And I still think it will be limited to air strikes as a ground offensive seems a non starter to me... largely covered here by general binkov

 

[2cents]

when does meuller testify... (July 17th I think)
Id guess the airstrikes start a day or two before
And I still think it will be limited to air strikes as a ground offensive seems a non starter to me... largely covered here by general binkov

So air strikes on Iran in the next 5-6 days?

 

[sun_tzu]

So air strikes on Iran in the next 5-6 days?

Would be a hell of a distraction wouldn't it... plus they have breached their nuclear agreement, plus they have attached a ship, plus they tried to attack another ship is the narrative so the USA USA USA almost has to show them whose boss?

 

[Smores]

Seems to be reported on Sky as an "attack"

 

[sun_tzu]

Seems to be reported on Sky as an "attack"

3 armed vessels (apparently revolutionary guard) heading towards an unarmed tanker after ordering it to stop in Iranian waters after the Government said it intended to seize a UK tanker in retaliation and the vessels only turned around when a Royal Navy boat positioned its self between them and the tanker and threatened to open fire... not sure if that constitutes an attack or not and im equally sure it will be reported very differently in Iran - but it seems inevitable that at some point something is going to escalate there.

 

[2cents]

Would be a hell of a distraction wouldn't it... plus they have breached their nuclear agreement, plus they have attached a ship, plus they tried to attack another ship is the narrative so the USA USA USA almost has to show them whose boss?

Well I’m skeptical. I don’t think Trump is looking for a conflict, and I don’t his actions are driven by a constant search for ‘distractions’ from Mueller. Although this seems to be gospel with some on here.

 

[sun_tzu]

Well I’m skeptical. I don’t think Trump is looking for a conflict, and I don’t his actions are driven by a constant search for ‘distractions’ from Mueller. Although this seems to be gospel with some on here.

I hope your right

 

[utdalltheway]

3 armed vessels (apparently revolutionary guard) heading towards an unarmed tanker after ordering it to stop in Iranian waters after the Government said it intended to seize a UK tanker in retaliation and the vessels only turned around when a Royal Navy boat positioned its self between them and the tanker and threatened to open fire... not sure if that constitutes an attack or not and im equally sure it will be reported very differently in Iran - but it seems inevitable that at some point something is going to escalate there.

The British govmnt can’t be trusted to tell the truth in situations like these. Sadly, they’ve shown in the past that lies or half truths are perfectly normal so colour me sceptical when I read any reports from them which “justify” their position as tensions mount.
Bolton will be happy though so that’s a bonus for the UK warmongers.

 

[2cents]

Guiliani promoting the MEK from their annual conference in Albania:



Here’s a look at their bot factory there:

 

[2cents]

 

[Pexbo]

Even as an old white conservative Democrat he admires trump.

 

[berbatrick]

Sean Hannity once claimed he got on well with Dems. When asked to name, he struggled for a bit before coming up with Lieberman.

 

[Redplane]

I never considered Lieberman a Democrat. The guy is a paid for pawn who only helps the Rs, not unlike Jill Stein.

 

[RedTiger]

Joe is a DINO

 

[2cents]

I honestly thought he was dead before I saw that tweet. He’s exactly where I’d expect him to be right now.

 

[Port Vale Devil]

Iran captures foreign oil tanker with 12 crew.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp....says-it-has-seized-foreign-oil-tanker-in-gulf

 

[Red Defence]

 

[adexkola]

Iran seizes British tanker in Strait of Hormuz

This will end well

 

[Carolina Red]

Good luck limeys.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Brexit to one side
Iran on the other
Here comes BoJo.

 

[Precaution]

Brexit to one side
Iran on the other
Here comes BoJo.

Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you

 

[17Larsson]

What is the reason for Iran to do this?

 

[2mufc0]

What is the reason for Iran to do this?

Most likely retaliation for the Iranian tanker the UK seized a short while back

 

[Sky1981]

What is the reason for Iran to do this?

Did iran?

 

[Ekkie Thump]

Seems so.

 

[sun_tzu]

Iran seizes British tanker in Strait of Hormuz

This will end well

Don't panic...we just need some calm leadership with proven experience of Iranian negotiations