No by reversing the situation I meant if India were 2-0 up as well. Why would they risk player injuries with ODI series and most importantly, Australia visit around the corner?
India Tour of South Africa
- Thread starter prath92
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If SA were so concerned about dangerous play then why were they bowling short balls to our tail-enders.
South African manager- "The ball that hit Elgar shot up from a good length"
I bet they didn't
Guess it's understandable why they called it off.. Should have done it earlier though..
From an Indian perspective, much improved batting.. Bodes well for future away tours,providd we actually show up more than a couple of days in advance and play some practice matches..
The ball that hit Elgar was definitely not good length. Definitely a good short ball..
From an Indian perspective, much improved batting.. Bodes well for future away tours,providd we actually show up more than a couple of days in advance and play some practice matches..
The ball that hit Elgar was definitely not good length. Definitely a good short ball..
Yep, it's pretty clear now that SA find themselves in a losing position they are gonna cry about the pitch which has looked equally dangerous for the first three days.
I'm just reading the South African managers comments on cricinfo. Basically he is trying to say if the ball is hitting you on the fingers, or the ribcage, it is fine and you can get away with it. But when it hits you in the face, umpires need to step in.
This is quite a fecked up logic. FOA, the ball that hit him in the face was a short pitched ball. They seem to be completely missing the point by their comments.
This is quite a fecked up logic. FOA, the ball that hit him in the face was a short pitched ball. They seem to be completely missing the point by their comments.
Oh, of course. But this is in SA, a pitch they curated in their conditions and they're cowering. I completely understand why they don't want to play - not so much injuries but the fact that they're likely to lose. Even at the current scoreline, if SA were ahead in this match (chasing say 150), we'd still be playing.
From cricinfo, read bottom to top -
I'm just glad no one had to face Johnson, Starc and Cummins on this pitch!
Q: If the match ref, asks what you would like to do? Gibson: We are here to play cricket. We still want to play cricket.The match ref's decision will be on player safety. If the match ref says play on, we are going to play once a decision is made, that's it. We prepare like we do every morning. Throughout the whole game on both sides, you saw batsmen wearing a few. India didn't complain and we didn't either. Dean got in hit in the face, he wasn't able to take evasive action. The match ref feels there is something there for him to look at. Once they make a decision, we will get on with it.
Q: Should groundsman be left to do their job? Gibson:Every team is good in their conditions and they use the conditions to their advantage. When we go to India the wickets spin. Every team will try and use home advantage. I cant speak for groundsman. We asked for a certain type of pitch and the groundsman has a month to get it right.
Q: Do you think a decision could have been taken earlier in the day? Gibson: Not really. When I spoke to Faf, at lunch, he came off and said a "couple on the fingers". If the ball is going to hit you on the fingers and the bowlers are bowling 140 and you haven't got time to respond and take evasive action, then the umpires will see it. But when it hits the face, you have to take action.
Ottis Gibson: India over the course of three days realised the conditions better than we did. They had the upper hand on the game from the first day. [Did he feel this pitch looked excessive?] Not really. I have played here before and I have played here on a wicket that looked similar to this. both teams said it looked like a good pitch. The grass was cut down to 5mm. When we play in England, the grass is a simialr sort of length. I dont think we expected it to behave in the way that it did. It started tough on the first day and it got a little worse. The one thing we have said - and everybody is making a big issue of grass - we've never asked for grass. We've asked for pace and bounce. If you are a groundsman and you feel like the best way to get pace and bounce is to leave grass on the wicket, that's it. We get on and play. The wicket has gradually got worse. The umpires will make a decision, the reason why they are here is to make decisions on the safety on the pitch. Before you go on about India batting twice, there were balls taking off on a length and our captain was saying I am not sure this is fair either. It's not like we are sour grapes.
Q: Why are SA bowlers bowlers at the rib cage or face? M: I don't think the short pitch bowling affected Shami. This is Test cricket. One team will try and attack. I don't think there is any deliberate effort to hurt anybody.
Q: Was dean unhappy with conditions? M: Nobody has made a direct statement with the ball seaming around. If it is hitting the rib cage or fingers, you can get away from it. But once it is hitting the face or the head, that's why the match refs walked off the field.
Q: Do you want to play? Moosajee: Everbody wants to see Test cricket. The issue becomes what is unfit and unsafe. When the ball leaves from a length and hits someone in the face, that when the match officials [get involved]. We will be told the decision tonight.When we got here on day 1, it looked like a sporting wicket. We wanted a pitch with pace and bounce. The ICC will rate it and there will be repercussions. The ball that hit Elgar shot up from a good length.
Moosajee: During tea time the two managers were called in to the match ref room where discussion was held on the conditions of the pitch. At that time, it was decided that if the umpires decided it was unfair, they would consult with match ref and captains. From our point of view, this decision lies squarely with the match officials
6:09pm South Africa manager Moosaje and coach Ottis Gibson are at the press conference. Stand by...
Q: Should groundsman be left to do their job? Gibson:Every team is good in their conditions and they use the conditions to their advantage. When we go to India the wickets spin. Every team will try and use home advantage. I cant speak for groundsman. We asked for a certain type of pitch and the groundsman has a month to get it right.
Q: Do you think a decision could have been taken earlier in the day? Gibson: Not really. When I spoke to Faf, at lunch, he came off and said a "couple on the fingers". If the ball is going to hit you on the fingers and the bowlers are bowling 140 and you haven't got time to respond and take evasive action, then the umpires will see it. But when it hits the face, you have to take action.
Ottis Gibson: India over the course of three days realised the conditions better than we did. They had the upper hand on the game from the first day. [Did he feel this pitch looked excessive?] Not really. I have played here before and I have played here on a wicket that looked similar to this. both teams said it looked like a good pitch. The grass was cut down to 5mm. When we play in England, the grass is a simialr sort of length. I dont think we expected it to behave in the way that it did. It started tough on the first day and it got a little worse. The one thing we have said - and everybody is making a big issue of grass - we've never asked for grass. We've asked for pace and bounce. If you are a groundsman and you feel like the best way to get pace and bounce is to leave grass on the wicket, that's it. We get on and play. The wicket has gradually got worse. The umpires will make a decision, the reason why they are here is to make decisions on the safety on the pitch. Before you go on about India batting twice, there were balls taking off on a length and our captain was saying I am not sure this is fair either. It's not like we are sour grapes.
Q: Why are SA bowlers bowlers at the rib cage or face? M: I don't think the short pitch bowling affected Shami. This is Test cricket. One team will try and attack. I don't think there is any deliberate effort to hurt anybody.
Q: Was dean unhappy with conditions? M: Nobody has made a direct statement with the ball seaming around. If it is hitting the rib cage or fingers, you can get away from it. But once it is hitting the face or the head, that's why the match refs walked off the field.
Q: Do you want to play? Moosajee: Everbody wants to see Test cricket. The issue becomes what is unfit and unsafe. When the ball leaves from a length and hits someone in the face, that when the match officials [get involved]. We will be told the decision tonight.When we got here on day 1, it looked like a sporting wicket. We wanted a pitch with pace and bounce. The ICC will rate it and there will be repercussions. The ball that hit Elgar shot up from a good length.
Moosajee: During tea time the two managers were called in to the match ref room where discussion was held on the conditions of the pitch. At that time, it was decided that if the umpires decided it was unfair, they would consult with match ref and captains. From our point of view, this decision lies squarely with the match officials
6:09pm South Africa manager Moosaje and coach Ottis Gibson are at the press conference. Stand by...
Q: This was a pitch prepared SA, did you feel pride in your batting? Rahane: We wanted to continue, the umpires said the decision is completely up to us. We told them our message is completely clear. We want to play
Q: Have you batted on a more dangerous pitch. Rahane: many times, if you see in Mumbai club cricket.... it is a challenging wicket. They prepared this wicket. We never told them to prepare a track like this. We want to play.
Q: Has the pitch become more dangerous? Rahane: What about them bowling short balls to our bowlers. When Ishant, Bhuvi, Sharma were batting, everyone was bowling bouncers. I dont think it is a dangerous wicket.
Q: Do you think ICC should make a general rule? Rahane: I don't know about that. As a team, our focus was to play and get on with the game and that decision is completely up to the umpires.
Ajinkya Rahane: It was challenging. The wicket was similar for both teams. It was completely same for everyone. Our approach is that we want to play and we want to win this Test match. That ball (Elgar) was back of length, hard length. It kicked off slightly more bounce than usual. The bounce on this wicket is completely natural. Not dangerous, it is completely similar for both team. The umpires were checking on me because I got hit on the elbow and glove, they were telling me if you want to call your physio you can and take your time, dont be in a hurry. When you are batting with the new ball it is challenging but you cannot call it a dangerous wicket. I dont think the wicket is too dangerous. I hope Dean Elgar is ok. When me and Virat were batting and me and Bhuvi, it was completely their (umpires) decision.We told them we want to continue playing. We didn't want to go back. [He adds that he wasn't asked if he wants to go off while batting].
Indian manager on whether he is unhappy - "We have not prepared this wicket. This is a South African wicket. We have come and played here. We have got the bowling arsenal to give it back. It's not a wicket we prepared. We have to come and play. Just like when they come to our country, we have to be prepared to play."
Indian team manager, Sunil Subramanium: The match referee called me at tea time in case the wicket got dangerous, in which case both the captains would be consulted. We had the view that the wicket has been the same for all three days. Today we had the highest strike rates and the least wickets. We would like to continue playing. The match referee was fearful that in case the new ball was going to be taken, it might be behave dangerously. The ball that hit Dean Elgar on his helmet was the reason play was called off today. We are willing to play. Umpires are the final judges on the fitness of the ground, regardless of the views of either of the captains. Tomorrow before the start of play we will be told. In between they will discuss - the match officials and the umpires
Q: Have you batted on a more dangerous pitch. Rahane: many times, if you see in Mumbai club cricket.... it is a challenging wicket. They prepared this wicket. We never told them to prepare a track like this. We want to play.
Q: Has the pitch become more dangerous? Rahane: What about them bowling short balls to our bowlers. When Ishant, Bhuvi, Sharma were batting, everyone was bowling bouncers. I dont think it is a dangerous wicket.
Q: Do you think ICC should make a general rule? Rahane: I don't know about that. As a team, our focus was to play and get on with the game and that decision is completely up to the umpires.
Ajinkya Rahane: It was challenging. The wicket was similar for both teams. It was completely same for everyone. Our approach is that we want to play and we want to win this Test match. That ball (Elgar) was back of length, hard length. It kicked off slightly more bounce than usual. The bounce on this wicket is completely natural. Not dangerous, it is completely similar for both team. The umpires were checking on me because I got hit on the elbow and glove, they were telling me if you want to call your physio you can and take your time, dont be in a hurry. When you are batting with the new ball it is challenging but you cannot call it a dangerous wicket. I dont think the wicket is too dangerous. I hope Dean Elgar is ok. When me and Virat were batting and me and Bhuvi, it was completely their (umpires) decision.We told them we want to continue playing. We didn't want to go back. [He adds that he wasn't asked if he wants to go off while batting].
Indian manager on whether he is unhappy - "We have not prepared this wicket. This is a South African wicket. We have come and played here. We have got the bowling arsenal to give it back. It's not a wicket we prepared. We have to come and play. Just like when they come to our country, we have to be prepared to play."
Indian team manager, Sunil Subramanium: The match referee called me at tea time in case the wicket got dangerous, in which case both the captains would be consulted. We had the view that the wicket has been the same for all three days. Today we had the highest strike rates and the least wickets. We would like to continue playing. The match referee was fearful that in case the new ball was going to be taken, it might be behave dangerously. The ball that hit Dean Elgar on his helmet was the reason play was called off today. We are willing to play. Umpires are the final judges on the fitness of the ground, regardless of the views of either of the captains. Tomorrow before the start of play we will be told. In between they will discuss - the match officials and the umpires
I'm just glad no one had to face Johnson, Starc and Cummins on this pitch!
The umpires were indecisive all day. Seemed like they were waiting for someone to get hurt badly or hit on the helmet before taking a call. In hindsight, they should have called it off in the morning. A lot worse than what happened to Elgar could have easily happened to any other batsman.
Yup.
And what happened to him would happen to anyone who cannot negotiate a short ball. Nowt to do with the pitch.
When is our next decent away test? Seemed like we got an away tour that is not Sri Lanka after ages and it's over already!!
I would say facing Rabada on this pitch is tougher than all of those.
Agreed. The pitch is shit and has been so, maybe since yesterday. But i don't understand people using Elgar's example to show that.
I agree. Was just saying if they called it off based on that ball then they should have called it off a lot earlier and saved us all the hassle.
You're coming to England in the summer aren't you?
Saw this. Doubt he was milking it though. Looked like he got hit square in the face.
SA pitch curating and SA team playing are two different things though. CSA or Jo'burg stadium can and should get punishment/sanctions. That doesn't mean their team should pay with it.
The truth is SA''s tactics of making a bowling heavy pitch has backfired big time. Maybe they should have prepared a better tracks but they were too concerned that India will actally do well if it was batting heavy and was behaving properly.
Obviously it would've shook him up. I didn't see the replays though, did it actually hurt him so much? Usually people getting hit on the helmet just shake it off.BUT isn't the pitches prepared with the consultation of home teams. Surely SA and their staff would have had their say. I doubt they will prepare such shit wickets when Australia play here.
Look, this is what @zing doesn't seem to understand. This pitch is horrific and the match should have been called of yesterday. I'm not at all fussed that play was stopped, I just find the whole situation quite amusing from SAs perspective. This should end all their bitching when they next tour India, because every pitch will be a rank turner.
Just to touch on @AshRK's point, the commentators on Sky began proceedings discussing how this looked like a typical Jo'Burg pitch. It was green as per a picture posted a few pages back. This backfired on SA and, as above, it's quite comical.
Did the SA team show any objections in the first two innings or even till our lead was less than 150?
Just checked,yes we are..
Best part is we play T20's and ODI's before the 5 tests.. So should be some practice for half the team..
I thought he was, not just that ball but the couple of contacts he had before. Really seemed like they had planned to object to the conditions at the very first opportunity.
Imagine if we after preparing a spinning track, losing the match refuse to play. We would be laughed off and rightly so. This whole notion that we are the only team who are home track bully's must stop. Every team including India are home track bullies and it has been observed when ever we tour , top teams prepare an extra bouncy pitches which offers very little help to our spinners. I never see pitches being mentioned then, but all I hear is how India can only play in home conditions.
How many spinning tracks have the potential to hit people in the face or injure them otherwise?
As per SA team's comments above, they obviously didn't ask for a crumbling pitch. They asked for pace & bounce. Quite often even when home team asks something, it is not necessary that groundsmen and curators agree and follow it. Just previous match was one example.
SA team is not going to ask India to go off when India is batting. That's for umpires and batting team is to decide. SA will only take call when their safety is in danger. They are not accountable for India's decisions. Here, SA are not the ones who ran to umpires to stop game. It is umpires and referee's call. SA will take it if offered as now they only have things to lose. Not just match but possible injuries before big series vs Australia.
India 2-0 up, India chasing 240 on crumbling pitch in 3rd test, batsmen getting hit on body, India having an upcoming series vs Australia and then umpires and referee offer to cancel match due to unfit conditions...India won't object. Same SA are doing.
I consider him the best bowler in the world but I thought Philander was 2nd best in the world early in his career when Steyn was top for me. Want to wait a little before publicly proclaiming Rabada as #1. Weirdly, he moved from top to #2 in rankings after the first two tests with Anderson going top, who I thought didn't play much. A worthy successor to Steyn for me.
This has been a good series for Kohli - scoring nearly 300 runs against such an attack should hopefully give him confidence before touring England. One can see changes in his technique in the last 4 yrs and now he's become the highest run scorer already among Indian captains. Also has highest series aggregate for Ind captain in SA (seriously, how bad are India's records in SA?). Just stop making stupid mistakes of leaving your better players out of the side and watch the team's performance improve. Still wish there's a decent and respected coach who can show him some sense. Can't blame him for lack of practice matches as that's solely BCCI's mistake.
Agree with everything you say except the last bit - I really don't think it matters what's coming up or the status of the pitch. That pitch is rubbish and it has the potential to cause injuries. Umpires should have decided to go off.
The last bit (what's coming up) is just one supplementary reason. Not the prime driver of course which is risk of serious injury.
So apparently the decision has been made and teams are getting notified currently. Press release to follow.
You simply don't acknowledge the point being made. We're not arguing against the decision, just the timing. Calling this match off after day two would have been the correct decision.
Better late than never?
How does timing matter? Two wrongs don't make a right.
I don't really care if some idiots are calling India as pansies or whatever. And vice versa with SA.
I want to watch sport - and if it's dangerous, take them off.
I think the umpires should have taken them off in the morning. They made the call later than they should have - and should be reprimanded for it.
Going to be interesting how this plays out. Wanderers was supposed to host one of the Tests against Australia. Gauteng Cricket has a lot to answer for. Both pitches in the Highveld have been a joke.
If Australia bowl on the first day on this sort of pitch,the match won't go on for more than an hour!! Starck,cummings,Hazelwood on this pitch!!
I believe matches can be called off if the pitches have too many cracks or spins way too much. Again it was just a hypothetical example.
Maybe they didn't think the pitch was that dangerous, hence why they posed the question to the batsmen who decided to continue.
It's not as if our opinions will affect the decision, this thread was made to discuss the series which is exactly what we're doing. And the point is bigger than just this one match. It extends to the criticism the India team receives from almost all non-subcontinent nations. And, in all honesty, we've shown today, as Nasser Hussain stated, we're not flat track bullies. WE made the decision to continue playing from tea because WE wanted to win. And you might not care about who calls India what, but the players do and it matters to them.