After establishing that a "close watch" was being kept on the Jan Dhan accounts, Das mentioned that in spite of an upper limit of Rs 50,000 on deposits, several instances were reported where Rs 49,000 were added to such accounts. These persons, according to Das, would be questioned and an investigation would be opened as per due provisions. On Saturday, Jaitley too had focused on the spike in Jan Dhan account deposits, adding that they were being closely monitored by the revenue departments, including the Income Tax department.
India politics thread
- Thread starter Shiva87
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And that is wrong why? Are you saying there are no chances of third party involvement?
Ok, so lack of planning is justified because people would find a way around it.
The current rule is that those with crop loans have the higher limit. Please tell me how this will be potentially misused any more than is possible now if it was announced a week earlier.
You keep digging for more negative news meanwhile. I mean you are a guy who few months back tried to spin Congress' s corrupt regime as positive. Will look into your arguments if they are of any help.
He doesn't live in India and has zero first hand idea of any of this. Articles is all he has.
You certainly have it on authority that govt planned nothing. Please share a link of your inside info. I meanwhile had shared link on the steps RBI had taken covering multiple scenarios. Improving on those steps is not lack of planning.
Don't worry, I know the REAL reason of pain
Funnily he ONLY finds negative articles. I wonder why.
You are unbelievable. Your beloved Jaitley said something on those lines. And then you blame me for saying that accounts will be "scrutinized". And after pointing fingers towards everyone for creating hypothetical situations, you yourself have been going on with Ifs and more Ifs.
I was willing to give this 50 days even though I felt that was a very small period considering 1Bn people, but looking at the way it's going on, I can't wait to see the consequences next year.
You can justify and defend every move till then.
Jaitley funnily is not my beloved.
You are unbelievable. Your beloved Jaitley said something on those lines. And then you blame me for saying that accounts will be "scrutinized". And after pointing fingers towards everyone for creating hypothetical situations, you yourself have been going on with Ifs and more Ifs.
I was willing to give this 50 days even though I felt that was a very small period considering 1Bn people, but looking at the way it's going on, I can't wait to see the consequences next year.
You can justify and defend every move till then.
I gave you ample reasoning and scenarios on why misuse is equally likely along with normal deposits and it is perfectly right for concerned function to keep an eye.
Also, in all this, you haven't specified what your point is. Either it is to say that all those who have deposited money will be questioned or punished, which let's wait and see if happens when there is source to show. Or your point is that all transactions should be ignored.
Given you "can't wait to see consequences" and clearly "hoping" they are negative, I don't think I need to say more.
Why is it bad if these accounts are scrutinised incase there's suspicious activity? Unless you've been hiding at home, you'd definitely be aware that schemes to get money converted for a commission using these people as a front are already on.
Now I don't really know what's the official stance on this, but I really hope they do monitor these accounts especially if as someone said, 49k is being deposited when the limit is 50k. These people and their accounts will be used by agents paying then a small commission.
Now I don't really know what's the official stance on this, but I really hope they do monitor these accounts especially if as someone said, 49k is being deposited when the limit is 50k. These people and their accounts will be used by agents paying then a small commission.
Petrol pumps(state-run) have started cash dispensation.
Well, there's another one who isn't actually living in India and isn't affected by any of this, can't expect them to seriously care about the situation apart from point scoring on the internet.
So people who aren't living in India shouldn't comment, cool. Similarly since you guys are insulated considering your pockets have been packed with cards/cheques/paytm, I don't see any reason for you to vehemently defend this move.
Of course you should, but in this thread itself you can pretty see the difference on what the point of view of someone who is actually affected by this - to whatever degree is as opposed to the article posters. I haven't vehemently defended anything half as much as you despite actually going through the troubles that have been caused due to this, says it all.
Which I have explained to you multiple times that it is not one and the same thing. Modi's was assurance to housewives particularly who have decent cash saved and want to deposit and it was on back of false rumours to cause panic that their money is wasted. The Jaitley and Das comments talk about possible misuse which will be kept eye on. The latter one will especially be on accounts which were dormant for long but suddenly had lots of deposits just below the limit. It will also be if there are mass instances in a small area or where there is some linkage between multiple accounts having similar activity. KYC and having information about the account holder clearly tells if there is cause for investigation or not.
The thing is, there are some who are pointing out that more can be done and there are inconveniences but the idea is right and then there are others who are too desperate to find out negatives only. The latter group can't be taken much seriously.
I can sympathize with his problem (current situation and all), but this is 10,000 Rs he's talking about. I certainly don't see why those kind of money needs to be transacted in cash to begin with. Since he has a account with money, can't he just get a Demand Draft? Or maybe it's time they start applying for ATM/Debit/Credit cards? There are ample other forms of banking facilities to transact with, and mostly it's people's (both buyer and seller) unwillingness to change that is causing the problem. Is there any specific reason that a Rs10,000 transactions can't be made through other means than cash?
It costs about Rs.4 to print a Rs.1000 note and the more cash we use, the more money we need to keep printing and reprinting the same notes to keep them in circulation.
And you being temporarily in Delhi are now telepathically connected to 1.3 billion Indians and don't need any external information to clarify what is happening. Cool.
With your deep connections, you even produced stunning and conclusive evidence of absolute success: Whatsapp forward photos! (and unbelievably I saw the same photos earlier, thanks to this modern miracle called the net!). After seeing the 2 photos, what debate is left?
You said no-one is suffering, so I showed articles of people that were suffering. I also posted 5 videos of people, mostly praising, some opposing. But whatever. We live in a postmodern world, perception beats facts.
Just like with the Cong article, where my main point was that the use of statistics can be selective and strengthen any argument.
Yes, long term that's great. My objection here is to the timing (crops are being planted now), to the limited timeframe and no warning (which means a large part of the rural economy seems to have come to a grinding halt), and to the cost/benefit analysis of this particular way of chasing black money. He has had 2.5 years to publish Swiss bank account holders (the SC is asking the govt to do this but the govt isn't responding for months), to look at the Panama leaks, to go after Mallya et al but he chooses the most painful method possible, with serious questions over the results. After all, this is a tax department report in 2012
Anyway, I have a presentation in 5.5 hours, so I'm out.
What are you on about?
I have maintained that there is inconvenience, which was expected but keeping on banging drum about negatives is hardly productive, especially when govt is reviewing it regularly and increasing or decreasing the limit to both help in as much cases as possible and also to prevent misuse simultaneously. I can't take those who are too desperate to point out negatives and only focus on it, seriously.
Since Ive wandered into the CE of my own accord, and i have a decently long time to go for my flight, I'll explain slowly for your benefit.
No post I or seemingly most others have made here has put the move down. It is what it is. A radical step to ensure we reset when it comes to the parallel economy that is so prevalent in most parts of the country. Unfortunately, the direct impact of such a radical step is also felt by 90% of the people in this country, some of whom are still struggling to break free from a hand to mouth existence.
What is being questioned, amd justly so, are the steps and the planning taken prior to this move, as well as post it. Steps like resetting values ad hoc, starting the printing only in September first week, ignoring the use of cash for basic needs of the honest people, for weddings, education, farming, mortgages, industry.
My question is simply this. Why do you choose to not question what is obviously farcical planning for a massive, massive enforcement?
No post I or seemingly most others have made here has put the move down. It is what it is. A radical step to ensure we reset when it comes to the parallel economy that is so prevalent in most parts of the country. Unfortunately, the direct impact of such a radical step is also felt by 90% of the people in this country, some of whom are still struggling to break free from a hand to mouth existence.
What is being questioned, amd justly so, are the steps and the planning taken prior to this move, as well as post it. Steps like resetting values ad hoc, starting the printing only in September first week, ignoring the use of cash for basic needs of the honest people, for weddings, education, farming, mortgages, industry.
My question is simply this. Why do you choose to not question what is obviously farcical planning for a massive, massive enforcement?
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Typed that earlier, didn't get sent.
Seriously, learn how to read. I can only assume it will help you later in life.
Whatever you have 'learnt' doesn't seem to have helped you at all in life with questionable level of intelligence and comprehension skills. Not sure you should be advising others.
That is being universally criticised dude, and rightly so. The planning and preparation was pretty crap, no question.
There is no right time to do this. Today it's crop planting season, tomorrow it's Harvesting season and then Valentine's day and then Tourist season or some other shit. If this is the right move (I'm not really qualified to comment on that) then huge inconvenience was always going to be an obvious byproduct. Planning seems to have been lacking or at least they've underestimated the sheer scale of the task or the dependency on cash of most of the population. Doesn't help of course that banks apparently ignored RBI suggestions to increase the number of 100 notes
The underestimating bit I agree with. Dependency on cash they must have known and Jaitley was saying after couple of days of announcement that to get things back to normal, it will take at least 3 weeks. What they underestimated and didn't plan enough against imo is that the over the counter exchange facility can be misused, which hurts the plan in two ways. Creating cash crunch and those who are honest having to queue longer causing panic. As the facility was to be availed at any bank with any ID, it led to multiple transactions by people, in single day with combination of different IDs and banks.
I'm not even going to the bit where BJP leaders and party centres across seem to have had prior warning. Or instances where family members received notes or news about it before the roll-out.
This is diabolical planning, and that threatens to make a seemingly positive radical move a massive headache, with some long term consequences.
In a country this big and problematic there was never a way of carrying out something like this with zero inconvenience. Like I said the planning obviously should have been way better and they are getting shit from all over the country for that.
As for the political party, these are people who recently basked into glory of our surgical strikes openly putting up hoarding and trying to promote personal motives, expect nothing but cuntishness from them.
I'll answer it in two parts...
Demand Drafts are available right now in all branches, aren't they? At least Rs.10,000+ transactions can easily be switched over to other modes with near minimum impact with instant effect. And drafts are as good as cash. In times of change, people should use drafts/cards more and try to keep cash to minimum. If everyone in the country wants to withdraw 10,000+ rupees in cash, it's no wonder we have a crunch.
As to others, it's a different problem. "Black Money" is an overarching phrase that covers various financial instruments, from cash to bonds to property to precious metals. In all honesty, Cash is probably the easiest to tackle and no wonder it has been done first. This move gets max benefit only if it's followed by rules streamlining real estate and precious metals markets too and introducing more tools to ensure transparency. I would take this as first step to fighting black money as against the entire picture on it's own. Complaints are like "He could have done more, so I'll complain on whatever less that has been done too".
Exactly. Any person I have spoken to, poor or otherwise, who has actually been affected by this talks about the inconvenience but then immediately follows up by saying that it was a good move, a necessary move. Here most small businesses are still willing to accept the old notes from regular customers, anyway.
And so it begins (Been circulating on whatsapp):
This.
As much as I would have loved the implementation to have been better, given how big our country is,logistically speaking it was always going to be a herculean task. As has been pointed out, RBI's directive to increase circulation of lower denomination notes were not taken seriously by banks. Of course, in order to maintain the secrecy, RBI couldn't have given a 'stronger' directive but perhaps the impact of this move on black money could have been reduced had some of the hoarders got wind of it.
Every citizen has a right to criticize or celebrate the move and shouldn't be bashed or laughed at.
In some ways am disappointed as well when I see misinformation being spread as in the case it was done about willful defaulters loans being 'written off'. I saw a Hindi news channel's anchor stating something to the affect of 'government is taking your money, and writing off loans for people like Mallya'. Really? What have we become?
Are my expectations too much if I am looking for constructive criticism? Also is there an article which has suggested better methods of implementation?
I'm assuming this was taken by someone at the Tax Office, prior to it being mailed. That or Indian Mail is super efficient. Letter dated 18th Nov!And so it begins (Been circulating on whatsapp):
Yeah if this is genuine then its most likely been taken by someone at the Income Tax Office
If it is genuine and someone at IT office took a pic then it is stupid and irresponsible. I-T is supposed to carry out this in confidential manner whether or not the money is white or black. People are already calling it out fake though. Some because of the date and improbability of same-day delivery of letter from Siliguri to Sikkim and then some are pointing to constitutional article 371F giving special status to Sikkim to support reasoning that it is fake and that Central direct taxes don't apply to them (with your background, I guess you might be knowing if it is the case?). Let's see.
This is what i expected. Anyone would be absolutely pissed waiting in line for a couple of hours just to withdraw something that belongs to you. But i would imagine that a lot of them would be happy to see something being done rather than just keep quiet.
@newgiz Didn't know you were desi. Where are you from?