India politics thread

kps88 said:
SP saying they will accept old notes for land registration. Maharashtra CM (BJP) saying he has allowed Marathi theaters to accept old notes. How can this happen? Each state can't decide on their own which businesses are allowed to accept old notes. You're just opening more avenues for people to use their dirty money.
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That is the idea :)
While demonitisation is a Central control, state have control on diluting the whole process.
The most corrupt states (or the govts whose friends need a lot of corruption) will be willing to bend
 
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kps88 said:
SP saying they will accept old notes for land registration. Maharashtra CM (BJP) saying he has allowed Marathi theaters to accept old notes. How can this happen? Each state can't decide on their own which businesses are allowed to accept old notes. You're just opening more avenues for people to use their dirty money.
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Whoever will accept old notes will have to go deposit and that can be tracked by I-T. Some local corporations allowed people who had defaulted on property tax and water tax to still pay it with minimum penalty, using old notes. Pune Corporation got record money from it. It just offered an avenue or outlet for people to get rid of old currency without queuing up at bank and at same time got corporations the tax which they were not getting. People with huge chunk of black money can't pay crores in water tax. For them it is hardly useful.
Similarly theaters is offering an avenue. It is not necessarily for dirty money. If a guy has lots black money, is he going to stand outside a theater, offer 500 notes to every movie goer in exchange for say 400 and ask him to get it used at theater? A common man however, with say one 1000 note (like I had), can get rid of it in watching a movie, without bothering to queue up at bank.
 
The Man Himself said:
Whoever will accept old notes will have to go deposit and that can be tracked by I-T. Some local corporations allowed people who had defaulted on property tax and water tax to still pay it with minimum penalty, using old notes. Pune Corporation got record money from it. It just offered an avenue or outlet for people to get rid of old currency without queuing up at bank and at same time got corporations the tax which they were not getting. People with huge chunk of black money can't pay crores in water tax. For them it is hardly useful.
Similarly theaters is offering an avenue. It is not necessarily for dirty money. If a guy has lots black money, is he going to stand outside a theater, offer 500 notes to every movie goer in exchange for say 400 and ask him to get it used at theater? A common man however, with say one 1000 note (like I had), can get rid of it in watching a movie, without bothering to queue up at bank.
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But then why not open it up to all sorts of goods and services? Especially more useful things like groceries, transport, hotels, restaurants etc.
 
kps88 said:
But then why not open it up to all sorts of goods and services? Especially more useful things like groceries, transport, hotels, restaurants etc.
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Transport it is, but govt one. Some groceries and restaurants were/are accepting old currency. I was saying to my friends just after announcement that if I ran an grocery store, I would tell consumers that I will accept old currency provided you spend at least 400 when paying 500. Will help me draw consumers from some other shops who are unwilling to. My daily sale will shoot up but will be in white money which I will go deposit and can show proof against if required.

As it is Marathi theaters only, it can't be a directive. Otherwise it would have been for all Maharashtra theaters and the owners of theaters are free to reject. Govt can't force private entities to do so. Same for restaurants or groceries.
btw Maharashtra CM also had all govt offices open till 11th midnight to accept the dues in payments, in old currency.
 
The Man Himself said:
Transport it is, but govt one. Some groceries and restaurants were/are accepting old currency. I was saying to my friends just after announcement that if I ran an grocery store, I would tell consumers that I will accept old currency provided you spend at least 400 when paying 500. Will help me draw consumers from some other shops who are unwilling to. My daily sale will shoot up but will be in white money which I will go deposit and can show proof against if required.
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You are not allowed to do that as it isn't legal tender anymore. Otherwise most big businesses would still be accepting the old notes as they have until the end of the year to deposit them. The ones who are doing it are doing it under the table to get an advantage. At least that was my understanding.
 
kps88 said:
You are not allowed to do that as it isn't legal tender anymore. Otherwise most big businesses would still be accepting the old notes as they have until the end of the year to deposit them. The ones who are doing it are doing it under the table to get an advantage. At least that was my understanding.
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Not a legal tender but with govt agencies it is a provision to help in providing additional avenues to bank and post office.
As private entity, yes I can be carrying a risk if I keep accepting it till say Dec but for a week or so it should not be a problem. If a grocery store keeps on depositing say 20-30k till Dec end, everyday, saying it is because they are accepting old currency, there is good chance it will be looked into by I-T. Same for theaters but as the money is going to be deposited in the end, it can and will be under I-T radar so those depositing will need to be careful. I-T will know how many notes of 500 and 1000 of old currency are still out there and aggregate mismatch will be noticed.
With theaters though, I agree there is chance of manipulation as daily revenues are higher. Any private entity bringing big cash, multiple times, after 2 weeks from announcement will or should be looked into.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
On a brighter note, govt was forced to cut down on petrol prices due to again fall in global prices.
At least Bhakts didnt need to tell me that keeping our petrol prices stable (by increasing duties) even if oil prices globally hit rock bottom is a patriotic idea.
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Since when did govt start to control the prices of petrol?
 
kps88 said:
You are not allowed to do that as it isn't legal tender anymore. Otherwise most big businesses would still be accepting the old notes as they have until the end of the year to deposit them. The ones who are doing it are doing it under the table to get an advantage. At least that was my understanding.
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I assist a microfinance institution in rural areas. They are accepting it to make sure that the borrowers remain current on repayments (as they don't have new currency to pay). They've written to RBI stating that they are doing this - and asking for an exception. But that's on a large scale and I'm sure at the end of the year they'll have to justify to the tax authorities if there is disproportionate increase in repayments.
 
Going cashless!
15109521_1257704890955851_468303319455572422_n.jpg
 
The Cashless Economy Of Chikalthana

In Chikalthana village, on the edge of and merging with Aurangabad town in Maharashtra, Prime Minister Narendra Modi's dream of a cashless economy seems to have been realised. Nobody has any cash. Not the banks, nor the ATMs and certainly not the people queuing up in and around them in despair. Even the policemen sitting in the vans outside bank branches haven't any.

But cheer up. They'll soon have ink marks on their fingers.

In the State Bank of Hyderabad (SBH) at Shahganj within the walled city of Aurangabad, you can see equally desperate bank staff struggling to help their impoverished clients. There and in other branches of every single bank in the town, soiled notes worth crores of rupees in denominations of Rs 50 and Rs 100 - meant to be sent to the Reserve Bank of India for final destruction - are being reintroduced into circulation. The RBI knows of this but condones it through silence.

"What option do we have?" ask people working in these banks. "The public really needs small notes now. All their work and transactions have come to a halt." As we speak to the staff inside, Javeed Hayat Khan, a small vendor, comes up to us from a queue that runs close to a kilometre outside the bank, on a Sunday. He hands us an invitation to his daughter Rasheda Khatoon's wedding.

"All I have in my account is Rs 27,000," he says. "All I ask for is Rs 10,000 of that for my daughter's wedding coming up in three weeks. And I'm not allowed to withdraw it." The bank held back since he had withdrawn Rs 10,000 the previous day, though he is entitled to take out the same sum today. Because they feel there isn't enough cash to go around the serpentine queues. And they hope to give some small amount to each person in those lines. A couple of them are now trying to help Khan. They point out that such money as he has in his account came from breaking a fixed deposit he had set up for his daughter's marriage.

As several writers, analysts and official reports have already pointed out, the bulk of India's 'black' economy is held in bullion, benami land deals, and foreign currency. Not in stacks of notes in grandma's old oak chest. The chairman of the Central Board of Direct Taxes said so in a 2012 report on Measures to tackle black money in India and abroad. The report also said (page 14, Part II, 9.1) demonetisation "miserably failed" on two past occasions in 1946 and 1978. Yet, this action is what the Bharatiya Janata Party government has repeated. The 'Modi masterstroke', a term contrived by assorted anchors and other clowns on television to hail an unbelievably stupid action, is spreading agony and misery in its wake across the countryside. If there's been any stroke, it's the one the heart of the rural economy has suffered.

The recovery time from the stroke was first dismissed by the finance minister and his party colleagues as 2-3 days of discomfort. Dr. Jaitley then modified that to 2-3 weeks. Soon after, his senior surgeon, Narendra Modi, said he needed 50 days to restore the patient to health. So we're already into 2017 with this course of treatment. Meanwhile, we do not know how many people across the country have died waiting in queues, but their number mounts daily.

"In Lasalgaon in Nashik district, farmers driven by the cash crunch closed down the onion markets," says Nishikant Bhalerao, editor of the weekly Adhunik Kisan. "In Vidarbha and Marathwada, cotton prices have plummeted by 40 per cent per quintal." Barring a few transactions, sales have come to a halt. "No one has any cash. Commission agents, producers and buyers alike are in serious trouble," says Jaideep Hardikar, a reporter with The Telegraph in Nagpur. "Depositing cheques in the rural branches was always a tedious process and right now, withdrawal is a nightmare."

So, very few farmers will accept cheques. How can their households function while waiting for those to be realised? Many others simply do not have active bank accounts.

One important public sector bank in this state has a total of 975 ATMs across the country. Of these, 549 were serving up no denomination other than despair. Most of those non-functioning ATMs are in rural areas. A particularly cynical rationalisation of the impact is the claim that "rural areas function on credit. Cash means nothing." Really? It means everything.

Transactions at the lowest levels are overwhelmingly in cash. Bank employees in small rural branches foresee a law and order crisis if small denomination cash doesn't arrive in a week. Others say the crisis is already here and will not abate even if some cash arrives in that time.

At another queue in Aurangabad, Pervez Paithan, a construction supervisor, fears his labourers will soon turn violent. "They need to be paid for work already done," he says. "But I cannot lay my hands on cash." In Chikalthana village, Rais Akhtar Khan says she and other young mothers like her are finding it increasingly difficult to feed their children. When they do, "it is after great delays because we are spending so much of our day in these queues. The children go hungry for hours after their normal eating time."

Most women in the queues say they have 2-4 days of provisions left. They're terrified to think the cash flow problem might not be resolved in that time. Alas, it will not be.

Farmers, landless labourers, domestic servants, pensioners, petty traders, all these and many other groups have taken a terrible hit. Several including those employing workers will go into debt, borrowing money to pay off wages. With some others, it's to buy food. "Our queues are growing, not diminishing, with each passing day," says a staffer at the Station Road branch of SBH in Aurangabad. Here a few employees are trying to cope with huge and increasingly angry queues of people. One staffer points out a flaw in the software sent out for the authentication of ID and other details.

People are allowed to exchange a maximum of eight notes of Rs 500 or four of Rs 1,000 for two of Rs 2,000 in value. This is a one-time transaction. "Yes, it does trip you up if you try duplicating your act the next day. But you can get around that. Just use a different ID. If today you use your Aadhaar card, tomorrow bring your passport and the day after that, your PAN card, you can repeat the transaction without detection."

Now, very few people have actually done this. Most are unaware of it. But the government's response borders on the insane. They've decided to start marking the fingers of the people in the queues (post-exchange) with indelible ink as they do in voting. On a right-hand finger so there is no confusion when people vote in by-elections coming up in some states.

"Never mind what orders or instructions government might issue," says R. Patil, a small contractor, in the Station Road queue. "The fact is most of the hospitals and pharmacies do not entertain the 500 or 1,000 rupee notes." Standing beside him is Syed Modak, a carpenter who had run from clinic to clinic to save a seriously ill relative. "We were turned down everywhere," he says. "Either they don't accept the couple of Rs 2,000 notes or say they have no change to give us."

Meanwhile, all eyes are on Nashik from where the newly-printed currency will go out - across India. No one's got it yet in the rural regions, but all pin their hopes on its happening. Watch this space.

(P. Sainath is the founder-editor of the People's Archive of Rural India. He has been a rural reporter for decades and is the author of 'Everybody Loves a Good Drought' .You can contact the author here @PSainath_org)

This piece originally appeared in the People's Archive of Rural India on November 16, 2016.
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This thread title is misleading. It's no more a fight than an enforced process with absolutely zero planning.
 
Where you go to withdraw the cash is very important too. The Axis Bank branch next to my office and the SBI atm both have similar number of people queued up outside. The atm has just 1 machine dispensing cash though while the branch has 4. Have withdrawn cash thrice now and haven't had to wait more than 10mins any time.
 
Apparently most of the private banks in Hyderabad have put no cash exchange or withdrawal for the whole day today. Hopefully money will come soon, else the situation will become too dangerous.
 
Modi is the most politically skilled leader in decades. Demonetization was far too crude as a weapon against black money, since it hurts poor people, but it is indeed a surgical weapon against opposition. BSP should be dead in the water, SP more or less the same. And a strong attack on Kerala can cost the state and thus the CPM long-term without touching the BJP which has no base there right now. And very effectively it has been conveyed as a pro-people measure. The next stage will be to find 3-4 people hiding money, preferably linked to politicians or some other opposition, and make sure their faces are in the news.

He is a genius, every other politician should learn from him. (no sarcasm)

but Kerala has a deeper problem: the cooperative banking system that holds more than RS 60,000 crore in deposits and has disbursed more than Rs 30,000 crore in loans has been paralysed because both the Reserve Bank of India (RBI) and the Finance Ministry are suspicious of its dealings.

The cooperative banks, with different categories (state, district, primary etc) and hundreds of branches (at least 1,500) have been the lifeline of people in rural areas for decades, but with demonetisation, there is a literal freeze on their functioning because they are neither allowed to receive invalidated Rs 500 and Rs 1,000 rupee notes from their customers nor receive fresh cash from the RBI in exchange of its own reserve to continue daily operations.
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Edit: the only different thing he should have done is shift it a few months earlier, in case difficulties last >50 days it could impact UP.
 
Aam Aadmi Party chief Arvind Kejriwal might have hit the right ‘notes’ in his speech at the rally against demonetisation at Azadpur Mandi Thursday but a section of the audience remained ‘unconvinced.’ Scores of daily wage labourers, who drafted in at the rear end after Kejriwal and West Bengal CM Mamata Banerjeearrived, listened with rapt attention but when the leaders dispersed, they insisted they were ‘hardly affected’ by demonetisation.
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http://indianexpress.com/article/op...y-are-not-affected-by-demonetisation-4381713/
 
berbatrick said:
Modi is the most politically skilled leader in decades. Demonetization was far too crude as a weapon against black money, since it hurts poor people, but it is indeed a surgical weapon against opposition. BSP should be dead in the water, SP more or less the same. And a strong attack on Kerala can cost the state and thus the CPM long-term without touching the BJP which has no base there right now. And very effectively it has been conveyed as a pro-people measure. The next stage will be to find 3-4 people hiding money, preferably linked to politicians or some other opposition, and make sure their faces are in the news.

He is a genius, every other politician should learn from him. (no sarcasm)



Edit: the only different thing he should have done is shift it a few months earlier, in case difficulties last >50 days it could impact UP.
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I am not so convinced about Kerala. I tend to view it as a revenge of sorts for Kerala not falling for the Modi wave. CPM is going to market the move as anti-Kerala and might be helpful to fuel the dislike that the common men have towards BJP in general
 
“Yeh sab bakwas hai. Humein toh paisa mil raha hai. Jo bhi Modi ne kiya theek kiya. Hamare paas toh pehle se hi paisa nahi tha aur jitna tha woh badli kara liya. Achha hua ki jinke paas kaala dhan tha usey dikkat ho rahi hai (All this is rubbish. We are getting our wages. Whatever Modi did was absolutely right. We did not have any money to begin with and whatever we had we got the old currency notes exchanged. Those who had money are in trouble),”
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Hmmmm. Something I have been mentioning since day 1 in this thread, thinking from poor people angle when people brought up that this will hurt poor people. My only worry from their angle was, if the daily wage earners' payments get stopped due to this for lack of work or lack of payment due to cash crunch for those who pay them.
 
I thought IE is Foxpress and I am an anti-national hypocrite? But for that quote IE and me are fine!


Anyway,
The Man Himself said:
Demonetization 'hurts' poor :wenger: :lol:
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The cashless economy of Chikalthana
The government’s demonestisation has devastated farmers, landless labourers, pensioners, petty traders and many others across Maharashtra

Let farmers buy seeds with old notes, says Agriculture Minister; Finance says no
Department of Economic Affairs cited the surge of deposits in Jan Dhan accounts to counter Agriculture’s request for allowing demonetised currencies for seed purchase.

Transport stumbles, villagers confused: Nagaland struggles with demonetisation
Residents of rural areas who have no bank accounts or vehicles to travel to banks are the worst affected.

Demonetisation has left India's food markets frozen – and the future looks tense
The liquidity crisis has affected both the trade in food and the planting of the winter crop.


Demonetisation: Kerala estate workers go without pay, owners warn of food crisis
Workers in these sectors are paid their wages in cash, either weekly or monthly, but the abrupt ceiling on withdrawal of money has virtually tied the hands of employers.

Unorganised sector is worst-affected by demonetisation. Can banks go to them?
An informal credit and debit mechanism has been demolished. Without adequate cash in the system, it is less likely to be restored soon.

Demonetization: Indian farmers fear losing crops & income from govt move against black money

Demonetisation move puts brakes on labour migration

Assam farmers don't have money to buy seeds or employ labour after demonetization

33 Demonetisation Deaths In 7 Days: Hospital Casualties, Suicides, Heart Attacks And Even A Murder



But our poor gods are doing ok!
At the Tirupati temple, offerings in demonetised notes are pouring in
 
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I was expecting lots of google search based articles, with less data, lots of fear monering and some random opinions instead of some logic on how this is long term problem for poor. Glad not to be disappointed :D Everybody is facing some inconvenience, it hardly means 'anti-poor.'

Given a Doctor was rumoured to have died fearing black money only for him to come out and do live interview, I am not going to bother much with the bastards like Huffingtonpost say.

This is gem:

Also in Kanpur, a young man died of heart attack while watching prime minister Narendra Modi's announcement of demonetisation. The man had received Rs 70 lakhs in advance for selling his land just the previous day. He had been trying to sell his land for months.
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In Thalassery, Kerala, 45 year old KK Unni went to deposit Rs 5 lakh for the second day, after being unsuccessful on the first. He fell from the second floor while filling the deposit slip and died.
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Very dramatic. Why not call every death happening in last 10 days is due to demonetization? If somebody suffers road accident, it is because "they were 'thinking' of demonetization while driving."

Good to see real color and nature of people come out in opposing this. Not that there was much doubt, mind.
 
In Howrah, West Bengal, a man tense over demonetisation, murdered his wife Madhu Tiwary because she returned empty handed from the ATM. He felt she should have waited longer in the queue.
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What a legend. I won't be surprised if the left or TMC give this guy a ticket in next elections in WB.
 
9 articles, from IE, Business Standard, scroll, ToI, and independent journalists. 5 videos (mostly pro-demonetisation). No response otherthan yet another snide remark about google (which I didn't use btw).
10th article, pick apart 1/5th of its claims and attack the source, ignore the other 29 cases.

  1. Four days before his daughter's wedding, Sukhdev Singh died of heart attack in Tarn Taran, Punjab. Surjit Kaur, wife of the deceased, said, "Nobody was accepting the money we had saved for daughter's marriage. My husband was tense due to this. He had complained of chest pain and died." (Indian Express)
  2. Sumit, a 17 year old son of a BSF jawan in Bulandshahr, Uttar Pradesh, committed suicide as his mother won't give him small denomination notes. (Press Trust of India)
  3. A 2-year-old unwell child died in Sambalpur, Odisha, as an autorickshaw drivers refused to take the family to the hospital for want of smaller denomination notes. The family had now-illegal 500 rupee notes. (Report Odisha)
  4. Lakshminarayana, 75, collapsed and died while waiting in a long queue for over two hours at an Andhra Bank branch Secunderabad, Telangana. He had gone to deposit Rs 1.7 lakh. The bank didn't have a separate queue for senior citizens. (IANS)
  5. In Aurangabad, Bihar, an elderly man, Surendra Sharma, died while waiting in a bank queue. (Daudnagar)
  6. Halke Lodhi, a farmer in Chhatarpur district of Madhya Pradesh, committed suicide as he didn't have money to buy fertiliser and seeds in time for the Rabi sowing season. "Had he got money from the bank in exchange of his old notes, he would not have committed suicide," said his relative Bhupendra Lodhi. (Hindustan Times)
  7. Aziz Ansari, a 60 year old factor worker in Meerut, died of a heart attack in a bank. It was his third day of trying to exchange currency notes. (Times of India)
  8. Raghunath Verma, a 70 year old retired school teacher in Jalaun, eastern Uttar Pradesh, died at a bank queue. His son Ravi said, "We needed Rs 2 lakh for the marriage expenses. My father went to the bank for three days. He had spoken to the bank manager many times asking him to help with the withdrawal and exchange. The manager did not listen to him. He even fell on the manager's feet on Saturday." (Hindustan Times)
  9. In the Bulandshahr (west UP) branch of Kailash hospital, owned by union culture and tourism minister Mahesh Sharma, a child died because the parents had only old currency notes. The hospital wanted them to deposit an advance of Rs 10,000 for admission. The hospital has denied the charge. (One India)
  10. Rizwana, a 24 year old woman in north-east Delhi hanged herself to the ceiling fan with her dupatta as she was upset about not being able to exchange currency for three days. (Indian Express)
  11. In Surat, Gujarat, a 50 year old mother of two committed suicide because she wasn't able to buy ration to feed her family. The shops refused to accept old currency notes. (Times of India)
  12. Shabana, a 20 year old woman in Shamli (west UP) committed suicide. Her brother, returning home after failing to exchange currency at the bank, found her hanging from the ceiling fan. (India Samvad
  13. In Chikballapur district of Karnataka, a 40 year old woman committed suicide because Rs 15,000 that she had gone to the bank to exchange got lost or stolen. She had hidden the money from her alcoholic husband. (New Indian Express)
  14. In Raigarh, Chhattisgarh, a 45 year old farmer was upset at not being able to exchange Rs 3,000 at the bank for three consecutive days. He needed to send money to his stranded children in Tamil Nadu. He came home and committed suicide. (Press Trust of India
  15. In Limbdi town of Surendranagar district in Gujarat, a 69 year old collapsed and died of heart attack waiting in a queue to exchange currency notes at a Bank of India branch. (Press Trust of India
  16. An elderly woman living by herself in Kanpur died while counting her notes. Police found Rs 2.69 lakh worth of old currency notes alongside her body. (Dainik Bhaskar)
  17. Also in Kanpur, a young man died of heart attack while watching prime minister Narendra Modi's announcement of demonetisation. The man had received Rs 70 lakhs in advance for selling his land just the previous day. He had been trying to sell his land for months. (ABP News)
  18. In Mumbai, a hospital refused to admit an ill newborn because the parents didn't have legal tender. The child died. The government has allowed the use of old currency notes only in government-run hospitals. (Mumbai Mirror)
  19. Komali, an 18 month old baby died in Vizag as the parents didn't have money to buy medicines. The private hospital refused to accept old currency notes of Rs 500 or 1,000. (Times of India)
  20. Doctors in Mainpuri in Uttar Pradesh stopped treating one year old Kush, suffering from high fever, after his parents ran out of 100 rupee notes. The parents brought him home, where he soon died, his father's 500 rupee notes now worthless. (Times of India)
  21. In Pali district of Rajasthan, the ambulance wouldn't take Champalal Meghwal's new born to hospital as he only had Rs 500 and 1,000 notes. By the time Meghwal arranged 100 rupee notes, the child had died. (Indian Express
  22. In Kushinagar district of Uttar Pradesh, a washerwoman came to know of demonetisation only when she reached a bank to deposit two 1,000 rupee notes she had saved. When told these were no longer legal tender, she died of shock. (Hindustan Times)
  23. Kandukuri Vinoda, 55, a home-maker in Mahubabad district of Telangana, committed suicide because she thought her cash savings of Rs 54 lakh were now worthless. She had earned the cash by selling land to pay for her husband's treatment, daughter's dowry and buy a smaller piece of land. (Hindustan Times)
  24. In Kaimur district of Bihar, 45 year old Ram Awadh Sah died of a massive heart attack as he feared his daughter's would-be in-laws may no longer accept his old currency notes in dowry. He had saved up Rs 35,000. (India Today)
  25. Barkat Sheikh, a 47 year old farmer had a heart attack waiting to exchange old currency notes in Tarapur in Gujarat. He needed money to pay farm labour. (Press Trust of India)
  26. In Alappuzha, Kerala, 75 year old Karthikeyan collapsed before a bank and died. He had been waiting for an hour in the queue. (The News Minute)
  27. In Udupi in Karnataka, Gopala Shetty, a 96-year-old man died waiting in a long queue at the bank, and the bank hadn't even opened yet. (Times of India)
  28. 69 year old Vinay Kumar Pandey, a retired BSNL employee, died waiting in a queue at the bank to exchange currency notes in Sagar, Madhya Pradesh. (Press Trust of India)
  29. In Bhopal, a State Bank of India cashier died of heart attack. Bank employees have been putting in extra hours and handling large queues. (Hindustan Times
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The flaws in other articles can be picked out too, just not worth the effort. The food market frozen for example. The food market is a temporary thing. It is not like people are going to stop purchases of vegetables, grains etc.
On Tuesday, Ramveer Pal, a farmer from Shamli in Uttar Pradesh, had sold around 20 quintals of basmati rice in Karnal mandi. The trader paid him Rs 40,000 in old denominations. “I have to take it as I cannot afford to keep the amount pending for three months,” he said.
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OK. Then his next problem is getting notes exchanged and otherwise depositing and then withdrawing. Nothing unexpected.

Yes, idiotic points will be picked out and anybody with half a brain understands and acknowledges that there are inconveniences and problems. Any random heart attack instance attributed to demonetization is too stupid to discuss and tells a lot about people who want to hide behind it to criticize the move.
 
The Man Himself said:
I was expecting lots of google search based articles, with less data, lots of fear monering and some random opinions instead of some logic on how this is long term problem for poor. Glad not to be disappointed :D Everybody is facing some inconvenience, it hardly means 'anti-poor.'

Given a Doctor was rumoured to have died fearing black money only for him to come out and do live interview, I am not going to bother much with the bastards like Huffingtonpost say.

This is gem:





Very dramatic. Why not call every death happening in last 10 days is due to demonetization? If somebody suffers road accident, it is because "they were 'thinking' of demonetization while driving."

Good to see real color and nature of people come out in opposing this. Not that there was much doubt, mind.
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Lol.. Paint everyone with the same brush. Great.

It is easy to call every hardship as collateral and anyone complaining as anti-whatever. I might go to bank and find that they cant give me 10K today and be cool about it. But a farmer who is waiting for cash to sow seeds before its too late cant be so cool about it.

Oh wait!! I forget that we are not supposed to come up with hypothetical cases.
And oh wait!! I forget that even if we come up with 3-4 actual cases they will be declared rare cases and collateral.

Maybe we should go and ask each and every person in the country about what they are facing and then document it and provide a detailed analysis. Should be easy. Will take only a few years.
 
Neither I nor you nor anyone in the govt is forced to go to the only bank in miles and wait all day for cash. We have cards and the internet. So for us waiting is an avoidable inconvenience. For other it isn't, and some of them have died.

If you had bothered reading the many articles about farming better, the problem is that right now is the kharif harves/rabi planting season, and all work including selling the old produce and buying new seeds and hiring labourers has stopped.

For your specific example, you omitted out the next paragraph:

But, to convert the old notes, he will have to visit the bank several times, which will be a problem because banks are marking people who are coming for an exchange of notes with indelible ink.
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berbatrick said:
Neither I nor you nor anyone in the govt is forced to go to the only bank in miles and wait all day for cash. We have cards and the internet. So for us waiting is an avoidable inconvenience. For other it isn't, and some of them have died.
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Collateral. Suck up and move on.


berbatrick said:
If you had bothered reading the many articles about farming better, the problem is that right now is the kharif harves/rabi planting season, and all work including selling the old produce and buying new seeds and hiring labourers has stopped.
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Deny it. Call it hypothetical scenario. Or call it collateral again.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Lol.. Paint everyone with the same brush. Great.

It is easy to call every hardship as collateral and anyone complaining as anti-whatever. I might go to bank and find that they cant give me 10K today and be cool about it. But a farmer who is waiting for cash to sow seeds before its too late cant be so cool about it.

Oh wait!! I forget that we are not supposed to come up with hypothetical cases.
And oh wait!! I forget that even if we come up with 3-4 actual cases they will be declared rare cases and collateral.

Maybe we should go and ask each and every person in the country about what they are facing and then document it and provide a detailed analysis. Should be easy. Will take only a few years.
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Or you can have common sense to see that the cases where there are issues can be resolved. The farmer can withdraw 10k couple of times in a week.
You can also see that cases and businesses where more cash disbursement is needed on daily basis are getting exception with appropriate application.
You can see that some private banks are creating separate line for senior citizens.

All comes down to intent.
 
The Man Himself said:
Or you can have common sense to see that the cases where there are issues can be resolved. The farmer can withdraw 10k couple of times in a week.
You can also see that cases and businesses where more cash disbursement is needed on daily basis are getting exception with appropriate application.
You can see that some private banks are creating separate line for senior citizens.

All comes down to intent.
Click to expand...
Common sense says that when banks have no cash and limited cash, farmer cant come and get 10K every now and then, especially given there are hundres like him standing in the same line for the same cause.
 
berbatrick said:
Neither I nor you nor anyone in the govt is forced to go to the only bank in miles and wait all day for cash. We have cards and the internet. So for us waiting is an avoidable inconvenience. For other it isn't, and some of them have died.

If you had bothered reading the many articles about farming better, the problem is that right now is the kharif harves/rabi planting season, and all work including selling the old produce and buying new seeds and hiring labourers has stopped.

For your specific example, you omitted out the next paragraph:
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I forgot everything needs to be pointed out and some people don't have mind of own and go by articles on chosen sites.

Part of money he can get exchanged, with help of family, rest he can deposit and then withdraw.
 
The Man Himself said:
Or you can have common sense to see that the cases where there are issues can be resolved. The farmer can withdraw 10k couple of times in a week.
You can also see that cases and businesses where more cash disbursement is needed on daily basis are getting exception with appropriate application.
You can see that some private banks are creating separate line for senior citizens.

All comes down to intent.
Click to expand...

Farmers who have already spent money on ploughing and irrigation to keep the soil moist can ill afford to leave their land fallow. Late sowing typically reduces yields and increases the risk that inclement spring weather could damage crops.

"In all likelihood we'll not be able to recover our cost of cultivation as the prime sowing time has nearly lapsed," said Prakash Chandra Sharma, another local farmer.

The farmers said they spent an average of 58,000 rupees ($855) per hectare to grow wheat, only to eke out an income of 70,000 rupees. That assumes a crop yield of about 3.2 tonnes per hectare.

A drop in wheat output would boost local prices that are already near record highs. Stocks are at their lowest level for nearly a decade, and even before the latest cash crunch, private traders were expected to import around 3 million tonnes this year.
...
In the latest in a series of ad hoc steps, the government on Thursday allowed farmers to withdraw up to 25,000 rupees ($368) a week against their crop loans to ensure that sowing of winter crops "takes place properly".

Shaktikanta Das, a top finance ministry official, also said a time limit for farmers to pay crop insurance premiums had been extended by 15 days.

But that cuts little ice with farmers, who often rely for their cash not on banks but on money lenders charging annual interest of up to 40%.

"Most farmers have already availed of their farm loan for the previous summer season and, for the handful who can still withdraw, the ceiling is too low," said Tejinder Narang, a New-Delhi-based farm expert.
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9 months planning, apparently, and they didn't know that this is planting season.
 
The Man Himself said:
The farmer can withdraw 10k couple of times in a week.
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There's a shortage of cash for them to withdraw! Why do you think people are camping outside banks before they open? Story on the BBC yesterday about one bank branch that was responsible for multiple villages. They ran out of money everyday. Things will settle down eventually, but at the moment it's a mess.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Common sense says that when banks have no cash and limited cash, farmer cant come and get 10K every now and then, especially given there are hundres like him standing in the same line for the same cause.
Click to expand...
Common sense also mean that it is once or twice per week and that the 'poor' farmer we are talking about don't deal with lakhs each week.
 
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