So farmers relying on lenders and not on banks, even when exception bring raised for them is demonetization fault? Particularly when it is obvious money lenders will fleece them?
India politics thread
- Thread starter Shiva87
- Start date
This shows they had no clue about the importance of the rabi season, and realised it only after implementation.
There is a difference between a short term cash crunch causing discomfort and calling the move anti-poor. It will also help if people like Mamta, instead of doing drama in Delhi do something worthwhile for a change in their states.
Besides, as others pointed out, even if it is theoretically possible to withdraw, the fact is that most banks don't have the cash to give these farmers; in fact every estimate says it will take months to get that much money printed.
Further, the fact the farmers borrow from money-lenders isn't a secret. I've never stepped on a field and I know it. The govt certainly does. So in their 9-month planning, they forgot the basic fact that crops will be planted now and the linked fact that farmers rely on private credit.
Further, the fact the farmers borrow from money-lenders isn't a secret. I've never stepped on a field and I know it. The govt certainly does. So in their 9-month planning, they forgot the basic fact that crops will be planted now and the linked fact that farmers rely on private credit.
Ya I know that exception was raised a week later for certain cases. Whether they had clue or not, exceptions in such cases have to be reviewed periodically and not through a long document at start, knowing how people in our country can twist any rule any which way. Doing changes in a week, where needed is good step.
This shows they had no clue about the importance of the rabi season, and realised it only after implementation.
Interesting article by Man Utd Joseph, normally a Modi naysayer. I was getting the opposite impression that people were losing their patience with Modi but he thinks otherwise.
Why Prime Minister Narendra Modi has already won the demonetisation gambit
- Man Utd Joseph
|- Updated: Nov 18, 2016 00:52 IST
A long queue in front of Syndicate Bank near ITO, New Delhi, India, November 15, 2016 (Arun Sharma/HT)
- Bank gives UP woman with cancer-stricken son Rs 2000 in Re 1 coins
There is no doubt that the citizens are furious, but they will not punish Modi for it. He did suspect that. He may not have been so confident about inflicting demonetisation in the summer months when people, especially in north India are prone to violence.
Even though people have suffered greatly, and many have lost portions of their hard-earned illicit money, it is hard to dispute that the government has performed a moral act. Surprisingly, the government has been able to communicate the reasonable message widely and deeply. It is rare for people to have an accommodating view of a sudden policy that only has long-term benefits, especially one that has hurt them. But there is observable evidence that the general public is with Modi on this.
Read | ‘Incredible to indelible India’: Twitter on move to check multiple withdrawals
The hostile reactions to the cash crunch are understandable and worthy of respect, but some of the anger should amuse us. It reminds me of the men who used to burn the effigies of cricketers, including Sachin Tendulkar’s, after an Indian defeat. Journalists usually portrayed such extreme reactions as emotional outbursts of fans. In reality most of the effigy-burning was performed by bettors who had lost money on their emotional backing of India. Reactions to the demonetisation, too, contain the grief of hoarders clinging on to honourable reasons to be angry, reasons that they probably even believe to be true.
An unknown portion of India’s unrecorded economy is run by politics. Parties receive cash through illegal means, which they then spend on illegitimate or nefarious activities, which include efforts to win elections. The important question is why does Modi’s BJP need less black money than other political parties? Is the party comparatively cleaner, or does it have more sophisticated systems in place, systems that a Putin would recognise? We will go there another day.
Read | There’s little connection between cash in economy and corruption
One strand of the moral outrage against demonetisation has been led by the refined urban class that dislikes Modi. They are excited by any story that assures them that Modi has made a catastrophic mistake. The reason why the story about the new Rs2,000 notes bleeding colour received good play in the social media even after the government pointed out that the notes are meant to lose colour, and that if they don’t they are counterfeit.
There is something clownish about the urban middle class. They keep whining about the state of the nation but when powerful solutions appear they reject them. They reject them because they are as corrupt and harmful as the aspects of the nation they despise.
Not long ago they prayed for a clean, highly-educated politician who was not the genetic material of political dynasties; but when Arvind Kejriwal miraculously made an appearance they loved him only till he was a gadfly fast-until-orange-juice activist. When he turned out to be a sharp politician they suddenly wished to dismiss him as an “anarchist”. In Delhi they keep whining about pollution but they do not tolerate any inconvenience to their car travel. Their grumblings about demonetisation are in line. Their lament cloaks the immediate prospect of the policy as a highly effective and even popular measure.
Read | Demonetisation: Kejriwal says PM Modi using his mother for politics
A war against cash hoarding and illicit cash flow is also a war against disorder and informality, which means it is a war against two central qualities of the Indian way of life. Such wars against the Indianness of Indians can be destructive to politicians who wage them. But there can be great rewards, too, to those who take a chance. Some people may have theorised that the Delhi Metro, which sought to ban Indians from spitting and littering, would be defeated by rampaging mobs. Instead, commuters ended up appreciating how the Metro constricted their exceptional freedoms as Indians. It is highly likely that Indians would exhibit such a capacity for appreciation for Modi’s attempt to end an economic disorder. Also, he knows how to spin every economic good news in the coming months as a consequence of demonetisation.
It is tempting to imagine what would have happened if the Congress government had taken the same step. Or say, if the Aam Aadmi Party, if it had been at the Centre, had made the move?
Read | Demonetisation will hit farmers, informal workers; long-term outlook positive
It may have been disastrous because of how the parties are perceived by the people. Modi, for now, has the charm to get away with many reforms that other politicians and parties cannot. We must use this man to get some difficult things done.
Also a difference between people in rural areas genuinely facing cash shortages and people in metros brushing it off as a short term discomfort/inconvenience or stray cases. No question right now it is the poor who are suffering the most, but yes it could just be short term. We won't know the long term benefits of this for a while.
It agrees partly with the videos I posted about people who are personally hurt by the move (but believe the rich will be hurt more).
Yes people in rural areas are likely to suffer more inconvenience but changes have been brought about especially for farmers and it needs to be reviewed on daily basis. Going back again, it doesn't make move anti-poor. Lots of articles criticizing the move are in essence hiding behind the flaws in system, which they don't have solution for and expect part of life.
People in rural areas are also quite trusting of each other. I hear that there is a huge credit market going around and some barter also!
There are 1.3Bn of us. Amazing how people brush everything as hypothetical and rare and what not. With a population such as this, every case is possible, multiple times.
No. It leads to confusion.
For example, Mudi announced that people could deposit 2.5L in their accounts in this time period without any questions asked. FM and someone else quickly came forward to reject it.
When did he say explicitly that 2.5L can be deposited no questions asked? The whole 2.5L point is because income till that amount is tax free and people might have kept some cash at home. In theory If I-T or relevant authorities want, they can still check to see if it is unusual based on that person's sources of income otherwise. Practically, less like to happen as I-T will start working on a certain big amount above and not for amount of 2lakh or so.
He is talking about the earned money kept as savings at home and depositing it. 'Earned money' is key. It automatically means there is a source of income to show against it. The only thing I-T want to be cautious about is the misuse. So if there is a deposit of 2.5L in an account and withdrawal in big amount suddenly, without any other deposits, it can make I-T suspicious. Otherwise, practically speaking I-T is not going to ask questions for that amount of money.
Conveniently ignored the part where I said ""Banks have no cash or have limited cash".
Farmers are standing in lines everyday and very few are able to get cash.
Some good questions by SC
"You have scrapped 500 and 1,000, but what happened to the 100 rupee note?" the Chief Justice asked the government.
It is ridiculous that govt did not think that they will need loads and loads of 100s if 500s and 1000s are scrapped and maybe not new fancy 2000s.
"You have scrapped 500 and 1,000, but what happened to the 100 rupee note?" the Chief Justice asked the government.
It is ridiculous that govt did not think that they will need loads and loads of 100s if 500s and 1000s are scrapped and maybe not new fancy 2000s.
Earlier reports - including on NDTV - that the government is considering whether to stop the exchange of old notes for new ones have been denied by senior officials in the Finance Ministry.
The rumour is up. I won't trust the government to do something like this.
The rumour is up. I won't trust the government to do something like this.
Different things. Modi is specifically talking about housewives (who may be doing small businesses like tiffin services) who can deposit their savings in big denomination in banks without worry(in case they are having that much) against the rumours spread by morons in opposition parties. Jaitley is talking/implying about possible misuse of the amount limit where someone with big amount chooses 10 poor people, gives each 2.5L and asks to withdraw immediately. Hardly a confusion scenario.
There was RBI circular to banks to recalibrate ATMs with 100 denomination notes.
Severe lack of comprehension mixed with blind faith and an intolerance to common sense.
The unfortunate bit is, people like this poster form a worryingly large percentage of the population.
RBI has said there is enough cash, banks are saying they don't have enough cash. Also "banks have no cash" is wrong comment, banks are running out of cash quicker and that too at limited places. You can give me examples of banks running out of cash I can give you equal number of examples of people standing in queue for 15 min and getting cash exchanged or deposited. So, "very few farmers are able to get cash" comment has no significant backing.
The clowns like you fortunately, are in lesser proportion.
Manners. I merely called you a bombastic, logic resistant sheep. You dont have to go ahead and prove it every post.
Your level of intelligence becomes apparent with every such comment, hard not to point out as you are too ignorant to see it yourself.
The lack of cash (new and existing 100s) is the biggest issue, isn't it? Is the RBI at fault for this?
Constructive.
Yes, meanwhile people will be hoarding up 100s, only worsening the situation exponentially.
The cash at source is not a problem as per the RBI but I am assuming it comes down to time for money being transferred to different locations, bank branches or ATM, compared to demand for them. In that too there are different voices with some locations having long queues while at other locations, people are able to get it done within 15 min.
As expected. The government didn't plan it and is making different rules everyday as they roll. Accountability and responsibility should be pointed out, heads should roll and people should be sacked, starting from Modi.
Keep Modi. Sack the clueless ones like Jaitley!
The information in that article is contradictory. On one hand someone says go and deposit your money, on the other hand, someone says that accounts would be scrutinized closely. Whatever business the housewives do, be it tiffin services or what not, I really doubt anyone of them, especially in a state like UP maintain bills. And even then, do you think in a city/town like Ghazipur, people would have normal accounts and not Jan Dhan?
All these statements are contradicting each other. Not sure how you can say that there is no confusion.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/for-...ms-to-a-bank-1626983?pfrom=home-lateststories
Just another rare case or collateral damage.
Just another rare case or collateral damage.
I am saying there is no confusion because 1) the earned money implicitly means it is not black and there is source to show against it and 2) keeping watch doesn't mean everybody is going to be questioned.
If a JDY account or normal account which had no and very little activity before suddenly sees a big deposit and then withdrawal, then there is possibility of a 3rd party using these account holders to make their black money white. If there are many such instances in one area, then I-T will get interested.With KYC, govt has lot more info on customers which will help. A standalone deposit of earned money is hardly a cause to worry for such people.
Far fetched assumption. I have been getting Intimation notices from the IT department since I started filing returns (~4-5 years now) for a rounding off error of 1 rupee. Do you think we are that perfect that everything will run smoothly all of a sudden? fwiw, given our villages and their love for cash money, even if all of it is white money, they still have to deposit and withdraw (for any reason). They will be scrutinized then.
Also, sorry but your second paragraph is based of "If this, then that." All of that is hypothetical stuff.
So you are saying that there is no chance of misuse and I-T should not bother at all? Or are you saying that I-T keeping an eye means an automatic punishment for everyone? Cash deposit and withdrawal for whatever reason is going to happen with all accounts, obviously. The magnitude, past history and mass instances of it in same area will get I-T interested. Again, getting interested doesn't mean everyone will be scrutinized or the money labelled black.
Funny you are calling that paragraph hypothetical when your whole point of argument is hypothetical situation of everyone being 'scrutinized' when govt merely said they will keep watch on deposit and withdrawal patterns.
@The Man Himself
Please spin this into a triumph of planning
http://m.ndtv.com/india-news/for-fo...0-kms-to-a-bank-1626983?pfrom=home-topstories
Please spin this into a triumph of planning
http://m.ndtv.com/india-news/for-fo...0-kms-to-a-bank-1626983?pfrom=home-topstories