(I'm actually not) Blaming Moyes for transfers

Eyepopper said:
And Utd are now Moyes team not SAF's so I don't see the problem.
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My point is that its wrong to think that Moyes doesn't have yet complete control on what's going on at OT. The man has already identified the issues and is working hard to sort them up. He cleared much of the coaching staff (including Rene whose brilliance were clearly shown on the amount of world class talent we had throughout his career at OT as opposed to the era before him (Harrison's era)), he identified the targets he wanted (Felliani, Baines and Fabregas) and by the looks of it he may well turned down the chance of signing another Mendes kid (Garay). We may agree/disagree with his decisions but Moyes is pretty much in control.

I see more fault in Woody who keep on messing up with his retarded bids then SAF
 
We've never bought top foreign players. Not stars. We've bought kids and tried to get Dino.
 
moses said:
Can people not read?

He says if blame is to be put on anyone it's not Moyes.

If.

"If you want to blame " were his exact words.


For me Brwned and you agree.
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Paragraph 2, Line 1 of the opening post:

"If you want to blame anyone for us being too "cautious" in the players we're looking at then blame Sir Alex"

Read it again Moses.

My point remains. This 'blame' thread is a load of bollox. Blame who for what exactly? Blame some one in or around United that they haven't fulfilled the Fifa/FM brigades muppet wet dreams. Read the post again.
 
moses said:
No, he's not saying anyone that wants a transfer is a child. I'd like a transfer, and he's definitely not calling me a child. I think even he'd like a transfer.
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Evidence A:

Brwned said:
"inner transfer muppet" hasn't been given the shiny new toy
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moses said:
He never said it shouldn't be improved and he also he never said it can't be discussed.
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Evidence B:

Brwned said:
Or just take a reality check and remind yourself that Nani, Kagawa, Rooney, van Persie, Welbeck, Hernandez, Zaha and Januzaj are exciting enough as it is.
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moses said:
He may be condescending but it's hard not to be moderating the hysteria and panic and prophesies of doom on the boards lately.
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I must be reading a different forum to you Moses. Sure there's the odd person who has criticized the clubs dealing with the Fabregas Saga (which I think is justified) but I haven't read anyone suggesting we're doomed! The majority on here have been wanting CM reinforcements for a good 2/3 seasons now and under new management its still not been addressed. That in my opinion is again a justified moan, it's a clear weakness in our squad.​
My point is we can't discuss blame until the windows shut and our business is done. This thread is 2 weeks early. We can't blame Sir Alex, Woody, Dave or Phelan because we have zero knowledge on whats happening at the club and who we're talking too. Hence this whole thread is totally illogical.​
 
I think whats frustrating the muppets is that we replaced the ultimate non transfer muppet manager with someone who not only doesn't
want to talk about potential targets but has a reputation for taking the entire summer to buy players
 
Rory 7 said:
Paragraph 2, Line 1 of the opening post:

"If you want to blame anyone for us being too "cautious" in the players we're looking at then blame Sir Alex"

Read it again Moses.

My point remains. This 'blame' thread is a load of bollox. Blame who for what exactly? Blame some one in or around United that they haven't fulfilled the Fifa/FM brigades muppet wet dreams. Read the post again.
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I give up. He is saying the same thing using different words.

He goes on to say "Though I'm not sure why anyone would complain about a strategy that has saw us play great football and have plenty of success."

So really he is not blaming him, and not blaming Moyes, so like you he's not blaming anybody.

PM me if have trouble reading any more posts.
 
rcoobc said:
We've never bought top foreign players. Not stars. We've bought kids and tried to get Dino.
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This is true and an approach that has clearly reaped rewards for us. I think the restlessness comes from two points though:

1) That our last marquee signing has worked out so brilliantly well, and that similar type purchases by our rivals appear to be having near instant uplifts on their squad's quality.

2) That the club has been more open about its transfer dealings than previous seasons, almost encouraging the fans to get hyped up about some big arrivals, with then seeminly no returns on the cards. I know the window's still open and that the club uses this sort of behaviour as a marketing tool, but in this instance I think it's helped contribute to the atmosphere of frustration/disappointment that some sections of the fanbase are feeling.
 
Rory 7 said:
Paragraph 2, Line 1 of the opening post:

"If you want to blame anyone for us being too "cautious" in the players we're looking at then blame Sir Alex"

Read it again Moses.

My point remains. This 'blame' thread is a load of bollox. Blame who for what exactly? Blame some one in or around United that they haven't fulfilled the Fifa/FM brigades muppet wet dreams. Read the post again.
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No, you've read it wrong. I went on to say it's a strategy that's brought us a lot of success. I wasn't blaming Sir Alex. I was saying if anyone has a problem with the players we're looking at it has nothing to do with Moyes because they fit the same profile as any signing under Sir Alex. I don't have a problem with them.

rcoobc said:
We've never bought top foreign players. Not stars. We've bought kids and tried to get Dino.
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Is this in reply to me? I said top foreign talent, nothing about stars.
 
Do we need a Director of Football?

Spurs have Baldini and to be fair he has done a great job...look at the players he has identified. Does Moyes need someone like that?
 
I doubt that the club make bids without consulting Moyes on how much they are bidding. I don't think you can blame him (he doesn't want to overspend in case it is the wrong signing, wants everything to be perfect etc.) but i think he is as responsible for bids as much as Woodward is.
 
RedSky At Night said:
Evidence A:





Evidence B:


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I must be reading a different forum to you Moses. Sure there's the odd person who has criticized the clubs dealing with the Fabregas Saga (which I think is justified) but I haven't read anyone suggesting we're doomed! The majority on here have been wanting CM reinforcements for a good 2/3 seasons now and under new management its still not been addressed. That in my opinion is again a justified moan, it's a clear weakness in our squad.​
My point is we can't discuss blame until the windows shut and our business is done. This thread is 2 weeks early. We can't blame Sir Alex, Woody, Dave or Phelan because we have zero knowledge on whats happening at the club and who we're talking too. Hence this whole thread is totally illogical.​
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Well maybe you are reading a different forum or just better at filtering.

As for your 'evidence' he's not saying everyone who wants a transfer is a child, as he does, and I do. But it doesn't take a genius, or maybe it does, to figure out that he's not actually talking about anyone who thinks we need a player or two, but the overly dramatic feckers who are constantly 'embarrassed' by the club lately.
 
It's the job of the manager to manage the team and be the right players in. It's those above him that have to sanction enough funds for the same. The buck basically stops with the lot of them and moyes is as important a part as any.
 
as I said in the other thread ...

Rood said:
a right bunch of clueless muppets in here - Moyes has barely been in the job for a month or so, it is going to take him a lot longer than that to assess our squad and get a network of potential targets to strengthen it.

obviously the midfield has been identified as the vital area, we tried for Thiago and Fabregas but one went with his old manager and one stayed put, not much you can do about that. So he has gone back to what he knows and I reckon there is a good chance that Fellaini will be sorted in this window.

we have a young and deep squad already, so there is no panic - give him some time FFS.
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I don't see anyone blaming Moyes for anything, perhaps only his assertions in the media.

That said, there is no basis to declare that our actual manager has little say in selecting the players we are chasing. It is guesswork of the highest order, and given Moyes is actually the manager, and the two players we are currently chasing were signed by him before and have worked with him for years - it probably isn't the most educated guess either.
 
Eyepopper said:
Well you can blame the fans as evidenced by you misrepresenting what was said. They never said there were 'no budget restrictions' - they said there was no transfer budget, in that they dont have a fixed sum in mind to spend. If the right player comes along the budget is made available.

If memory serves me correct there's every chance we would have gotten Fabregas if he wanted to come, didn't Barca's manager even say it was up to him? Maybe not for 25million but I doubt it would have been too far off 30-35million. The point being if he had wanted to come then the money would have been found.

So either Moyes is deluded or we're being led by amateurs - sure, or maybe negotiating deals worth 10's of millions isn't as straight forward as many think, and maybe there's a lot more going on in the background than any of us know about.
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Fabregas is a Barcelona's kid. He did his outmost to join the club so the chances of us getting him here were already pretty slim. Add to that, the fact that we've offered a bid which is at least 10m below his value and you've got the right recipe of a disaster. We did the same thing with Felliani and Baines. The former was rated just 1m more then the fee paid by Everton to get him to England for the latter we bid the same bid that was refused 1 month ago.

Transfers seems to be terribly complicated when United and Arsenal are involved. The likes of Barca, Bayern and Real generally takes their players with reasonable effort.
 
Come on, David Moyes
Buy the kids some toys
It's been a while while while
A while while while

Come on, David Moyes
Make a fecking choice
Even Kevin Kyle Kyle Kyle
Kevin Kyle Kyle Kyle
 
I'm actually surprised he Glazers aren't taking more criticism. Ultimately we haven't a clue what Woodward or Moyes have done. Maybe the 'low' bids are because we have a tight budget. Maybe the club still hope they can get Ronaldo and have to be careful not just with fees but also wages. The only thing we know is that nobody on this forum knows.
 
Rood said:
as I said in the other thread ...
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Rood said:
a right bunch of clueless muppets in here - Moyes has barely been in the job for a month or so, it is going to take him a lot longer than that to assess our squad and get a network of potential targets to strengthen it.

obviously the midfield has been identified as the vital area, we tried for Thiago and Fabregas but one went with his old manager and one stayed put, not much you can do about that. So he has gone back to what he knows and I reckon there is a good chance that Fellaini will be sorted in this window.


we have a young and deep squad already, so there is no panic - give him some time FFS.
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Yep, you can think the squad needs a player, that the club are trying to sign some and that some of our fans are hysterical numpties all at the same time. I do anyway.
 
Brwned said:
Knowing how Sir Alex likes going after players that have been the best player on the park v us and this being Fellaini's best season yet, you don't think Sir Alex might have been more interested in him this summer than the previous one?
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No, I don't think a manager of Sir Alex's caliber would consider the skill set Fellaini used playing up front at Goodison last year to dominate a Michael Carrick playing at centre back the least bit relevant as to whether he'd fit in central midfield for Manchester United. This isn't a slight on Moyes by the way, I want us to sign Fellaini, but nobody is going to convince me he's the sort of player Sir Alex would have signed. I think Sir Alex would have gone all out for Thiago and Fabregas and if he got neither would have left it for another year.
 
moses said:
Well maybe you are reading a different forum or just better at filtering.

As for your 'evidence' he's not saying everyone who wants a transfer is a child, as he does, and I do. But it doesn't take a genius, or maybe it does, to figure out that he's not actually talking about anyone who thinks we need a player or two, but the overly dramatic feckers who are constantly 'embarrassed' by the club lately.
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I must be using a different filter then, the only embarrassed posts I remember reading was the criminal first bid we made for Cesc. Although the first bid for Baines/Fellaini wasn't much better.

But we can't evaluate the window until the window itself is shut. That's my whole point. For all we know there might be a reason why we've been bidding low. If however we reach the end of the window and no players are bought. Then Dave/Woody are accountable imo, it's not Sir Alex's job anymore to value a players cost. So those early bids are purely down to Dave/Woody. But we can't jump to conclusions until the window shuts.

I don't think it'll make pretty reading if the window shuts and we get no signings though! Think i'll hibernate back to the General if that happens! :lol:
 
moses said:
I give up. He is saying the same thing using different words.

He goes on to say "Though I'm not sure why anyone would complain about a strategy that has saw us play great football and have plenty of success."

So really he is not blaming him, and not blaming Moyes, so like you he's not blaming anybody.

PM me if have trouble reading any more posts.
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Don't have any problem reading. The opening post starts from a ridiculous place - blame. And whats more its badly written.

Obivisouly you like the general thrust of the topic - blame.

Amazing that the word blame is even part of the narrative. Amazing.
 
Rozay said:
I don't see anyone blaming Moyes for anything, perhaps only his assertions in the media.

That said, there is no basis to declare that our actual manager has little say in selecting the players we are chasing. It is guesswork of the highest order, and given Moyes is actually the manager, and the two players we are currently chasing were signed by him before and have worked with him for years - it probably isn't the most educated guess either.
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This isn't a criticism of Moyes?

Erentz said:
Exactly why he shouldn't be turning to Fellaini and Baines, they're at the level they should be at, a team fighting to get into Europe, not a team looking to win the European cup. Lets not forget that in one of his earlier interviews after he got the job, there was something mentioned about him and Lumsden regularly having lengthy talks about the players they would love to sign if they were at a club like United, are Baines and Fellaini now their dream signings? this is some baffling bollocks going on here.

I'd rather they didn't sign anyone and just go with Carrick, Anderson, Cleverley and when he's fit Powell, maybe Moyes can then get his crack unit of super scouts to scour the earth for a player superior to Fellaini, that should take them all of 10 minutes.
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One of the players we're chasing is someone we looked at while he was at Wigan. The other was watched when we our scouts were seen at Liege games apparently looking at Defour. Both are amongst the best in their position in the PL. It's exactly the type of player we looked at signing under Sir Alex. I didn't say Moyes doesn't pick the players we sign, I said he picks from a list of players we've already looked at and judged to be potential United players. They may not be the same ones Sir Alex would have signed - as mentioned in the OP - but they would've come from the same list/group of players.
 
RedSky At Night said:
But we can't evaluate the window until the window itself is shut. That's my whole point. For all we know there might be a reason why we've been bidding low. If however we reach the end of the window and no players are bought. Then Dave/Woody are accountable imo, it's not Sir Alex's job anymore to value a players cost. So those early bids are purely down to Dave/Woody. But we can't jump to conclusions until the window shuts.

I don't think it'll make pretty reading if the window shuts and we get no signings though! Think i'll hibernate back to the General if that happens! :lol:
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Yeah I agree, I make no calls on the dealings of the club as I know feck all. Right down to what is and what isn't SAFs job to be honest.
 
Rory 7 said:
Don't have any problem reading. The opening post starts from a ridiculous place - blame. And whats more its badly written.

Obivisouly you like the general thrust of the topic - blame.

Amazing that the word blame is even part of the narrative. Amazing.
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Are you drunk?

The overall point is that there is no blame.

It's about not blaming.
 
If we are gonna blame anyone called David for fecking up a transfer, it should be De Gea. The lad failed to get Thiago!
 
Brwned said:
No, you've read it wrong. I went on to say it's a strategy that's brought us a lot of success. I wasn't blaming Sir Alex. I was saying if anyone has a problem with the players we're looking at it has nothing to do with Moyes because they fit the same profile as any signing under Sir Alex. I don't have a problem with them.
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But the general thrust of the your opening post is about 'who should we blame', even if your conclusion is no-one, which I have to be honest I'm not 100% clear on, you have opened up a thread about 'blame'.

My point, all along is, we don't know anything close to enough about the inner workings of the club to 'blame' anyone for our perceived misgivings on transfer strategy. And with the window still open surely its far to early to be even opening a thread on 'who is to blame'?
 
The only ones to blame are other clubs. How dare they not agree to United's cheapskate offers for their players.
 
Rory 7 said:
Don't have any problem reading. The opening post starts from a ridiculous place - blame. And whats more its badly written.

Obivisouly you like the general thrust of the topic - blame.

Amazing that the word blame is even part of the narrative. Amazing.
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The word blame accurately represents the attitude of some fans - as you can see by people in this very thread saying so and so deserves blame. I'm not blaming anyone you fruit loop.
 
Brwned said:
The word blame accurately represents the attitude of some fans - as you can see by people in this very thread saying so and so deserves blame. I'm not blaming anyone you fruit loop.
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I never said you were blaming anyone. Read my post.

My issue with you is for opening a thread about 'blaming Moyes for transfers' and inventing your own 'theory' on the inner workings of the club.

I avoid Talksport to get away from this type of shite, folks pretending they know what is going on at boardroom level in a multi-million pound business, I'm going to have to start avoiding the caf durin the window too.

This is the first thread I've engaged in all summer and I'm already sorry. I blame myself.
 
Rory 7 said:
Not embarassed by everyone. But am embarassed that we have a thread titled 'Blaming Moyes for transfers' BEFORE the window closes.
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if I made a thread called "Calling people idiots", would it mean I'm actually calling them idiots? Although, in this case...
 
What makes me laugh is the condescending reds always having a pop at 'spotty FM playing teenagers' for wanting top quality signings, while they try out this concept of 'supporting our successful team' seem to forget that the current team they are supporting are a bunch of previous big money signings.

Our players generally came here in the same way others want us to continue strengthening. Signings, particularly that of very good players, is a good thing for the team. Signings are the team.

Once upon a time, Persie was a 'shiny new toy' being lusted over by muppets (while the couture fans chose to not get involved and talk about how Rooney/Welbeck would be affected instead), but now he is a key part of the team, just as any new signing would be.

I will never get the bickering and competitiveness of transfer forum opinion.
 
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