I wasn't really paying attention but I think Zlatan did one of those "I don't know what's wrong - Guardiola doesn't talk to me" speeches at the end of the Barca - Milan game.
Ibra to AC Milan?
- Thread starter KM
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If he leaves that means he's a real pussy.I expect a player like him to welcome the new challenge and face it.
Wonder how much of a loss Barca will have to take on Ibrahimovic if they do sell to Milan. Also, most likely a bullshit rumour, but I read if any deal does happen Barca might ask for first-option on Pato should Milan sell.
40 mm transfer fee, plus a total gross cost of 20mm a year in salary..
Milan is proposing those terms and have agreed with Barca, the problem is Ibra.
They have asked him to lower is salary, but he has taken 24 hours to decide.
It will get done.
(all figures in EUR)
Milan is proposing those terms and have agreed with Barca, the problem is Ibra.
They have asked him to lower is salary, but he has taken 24 hours to decide.
It will get done.
(all figures in EUR)
Elections are upcoming in Italy, Silvio needs a good year with AC Milan for his image. It's clear he doesn't give a shit about the team anymore though.
Saw on SSN earlier that Milan have opened talks with Robinho. Don't know how reliable that is, was just in the ticker so it probably isn't confirmed.
I thought Milan hadn't a pot to piss in
They are speaking to the Bitters about Robinho aswell so they can't be as skint as they say.
He is the highest paid player. Inter started the trend, he got a nice raise at Barca, and probably another one at AC. That's what Mino Raiola does for you (Balo's agent also).
I thought Milan hadn't a pot to piss in
They are speaking to the Bitters about Robinho aswell so they can't be as skint as they say.
Elections... Uncle Silvio needs to do well at the polls.
40 million Euros fee and 20mil/year
Isn't 40 million euros what Barca paid for him last year?
Isn't 40 million euros what Barca paid for him last year?
He's got them tarts in latex and mini's on his arm for that hasn't he?
Being as it may, they are still skint, or so they'd have us believe. So where have they plucked £40m and whatever Robinho would cost from?
considering that Genoa just bought Kevin Prince Boateng and loaned him to Milan who didnt have the money for the deal i don't see how they can begin to afford the second best paid player in the world
(unless yaya toure earns more these days)
(unless yaya toure earns more these days)
That was Sky Sports Italia. Robinho wants a move to Italy though and that's why he rejected the Turkish clubs.
This Ibra deal is still far from done though. The 40m fee has been thrown around on Twitter from some Spanish journos and so called ITK's but it's far from complete (according to yet other sources)
Basically 40 mill to Barca (payable in three years, 15-15-10) and 8 - 8.5MM net to Ibra for 4 years (which works out to 16-17 gross p.a.) Milan is looking to get rid of Huntelaar for 13 (saving 5MM in salaries) and Flamini for 8-9MM (saving 3.5MM in salaries) so to clear room for Ibra.
(all in EUR)
Would be an outstanding piece of business by Barca. Basically they would have swapped Ibraflop with Villa.
Except they paid 60-70 last year for Ibra. It was 40-something + Eto'o.
But yes, good for them to cut their losses. Milan are being mugs.
He always looks very shit, lazy and overated when I see him in big european matches, have never quite been able to understand his reputation. But I never did watch a huge amount of Italian football although that league isn't really packed with quality these days.
I knew about Etoo but I think Barca knew they were never going to get anything for him. He seemed intent on leaving as a free agent and that was why he wanted some money from Barca to compensate for that signing on fee he would have got otherwise.
He was great for Inter. Won them many matches.
First of all, Zlatan did not flop at Barcelona. He scored 16 goals and 8 assists, in 29 matches according to soccerway.com he played 2065 minutes that equals about 23 full matches. Statistically he did very well. I don't care how much you cost, that is very impressive. Zlatan is without a doubt one of the best players in the world.
The logic of signing him is rather simple, he was to use his creativity and vision to create goals for Messi and Henry (and Pedro that sort of took over from him, but they could not know that in the beginning of the season). The reason for selling him is just as obvios, when you have the best playmakers in the world, you want fast attackers such as David Villa, which is why they want to do that. But to say that his goal record last season was bad is ridiciolous. At the end of the day, swapping Villa with Zlatan will not make Barcelona a mentionably better team. Rather him nor Villa would be the best player at Barcelona.
Before that, he was with out a qustion the best player in Italy for years. He would be a great signing for any Italian side. And signing him would increase AC Milan chances of taking the scudetto back from Inter by quite a bit.
The logic of signing him is rather simple, he was to use his creativity and vision to create goals for Messi and Henry (and Pedro that sort of took over from him, but they could not know that in the beginning of the season). The reason for selling him is just as obvios, when you have the best playmakers in the world, you want fast attackers such as David Villa, which is why they want to do that. But to say that his goal record last season was bad is ridiciolous. At the end of the day, swapping Villa with Zlatan will not make Barcelona a mentionably better team. Rather him nor Villa would be the best player at Barcelona.
Before that, he was with out a qustion the best player in Italy for years. He would be a great signing for any Italian side. And signing him would increase AC Milan chances of taking the scudetto back from Inter by quite a bit.
Look what happened to Inter when he left though...
Yeah they signed Milito, Eto'o, Lucio and Sneijder, four world class players!
He'll tear up the Italian League..again.
Don't forget Pandev, another great player. However, it was not Milito, Eto'o, Pandev and Sneijder that won them the Champions League. It was Lucio and perhaps Motta, because the supreme part of that team was the defense, Barcelona did not stand a chance against it.
Agree completely with everything except the bolded part. Partly because I think Villa has been the best striker on the planet over the past 4 or 5 years and is an even better player than Zlatan, and partly because he's simply a better fit for Barca. You touched on it yourself - Villa has got the pace and directness to threaten in behind, and he's a very competent creator and link man himself. Ibrahamovic didn't do as badly as people make out, but his skill set was just a bit redundant - Barca didn't really need additional composure and creativity at centre forward at the expense of world class movement, pace and goal-scoring instincts.
The problem is that Eto'o scored 36 goals the previous season. 16 goals/8 assists would be an adequate return in the Premier League, but in Spain it is pretty poor and I bet Villa will score and create at least double that amount. In all the games against big clubs Ibrahimović honestly just looks to me like a more expensive Bendtner.
An Inter fan in the newbies says he regards Ibrahimovic as the best player he's seen at the club since Ronaldo.
wish we had the financial ability to dump an under-performing striker that cost large money.
well played barca. they realized that it ibra wasn't working out so they fecked him off sharpish.
well played barca. they realized that it ibra wasn't working out so they fecked him off sharpish.
ibra will do well in serie a, and if milan land robinho along with ibra,it is quite possible they will give inter problems.
not to mention be very interesting in the CL....robinho, ibra, pato front three is quite an attack.
not to mention be very interesting in the CL....robinho, ibra, pato front three is quite an attack.
Really not sure this is the correct deal for Milan (unless they have more deals in the pipeline). Flamini is one of their top earners apparently so him leaving sort of makes sense, but then it means that Boateng is their only midfielder of a reasonable age (and he's not even theirs). Seedorf, Pirlo, Gattuso, Ambrosini, Strasser and Boateng - that midfield is getting older and older and both Gattuso and Ambrosini weren't great last season. And their whole back four, Thiago Silva aside, arguably needs a whole new revamp too.
To me, if Milan have €20m lying around somewhere, they should be spending it on a new midfielder or defender, keep the wage bill relatively stagnant then look to expand when several of these players begin to leave (Oddo, Kaladze...).
Ibrahimović would of course improve Milan immensely but if Milan have to lose two players - even if they are overpaid (Flamini) or useless (Huntelaar), then I think Milan are better off looking elsewhere.
The only real reason why Ibrahimović should be signed is because he will add an instant and vast improvement to the team, which will hopefully mean Pato will be less likely to leave next season (Milan will be struggling with their midfield and defence all through this season). But this is really short-term planning because Ibrahimović will only mask Milan's deficiencies elsewhere.
To me, if Milan have €20m lying around somewhere, they should be spending it on a new midfielder or defender, keep the wage bill relatively stagnant then look to expand when several of these players begin to leave (Oddo, Kaladze...).
Ibrahimović would of course improve Milan immensely but if Milan have to lose two players - even if they are overpaid (Flamini) or useless (Huntelaar), then I think Milan are better off looking elsewhere.
The only real reason why Ibrahimović should be signed is because he will add an instant and vast improvement to the team, which will hopefully mean Pato will be less likely to leave next season (Milan will be struggling with their midfield and defence all through this season). But this is really short-term planning because Ibrahimović will only mask Milan's deficiencies elsewhere.
I'm not Guardiola but I would consider the sale of Ibrahimovic to be a massive failure.
The first issue is that he has had one season, not only at a new club but in a completely new country, at possibly the most hyped club in the world right now.
The second issue is that tactically Barcelona with Ibrahimovic through the middle and Villa down the left is something Spain could only dream of. Playing a genuine "9" in the lone striker spot is in my opinion the way back not forward. A team with Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi tucking in from the right, Ibrahimovic upfront and Villa "striking" from the opponents right fullback position should quite simply be able to play everyone off the face of the Earth.
Villa operating down the right inside forward position of this current Barca side is for me about as close to a "dream team" as you are going to get. I simply do not understand why Ibrahimovic would be being considered for sale.
Unless Barcelona need the money for Fabregas.
Fabregas in Busquets position would be a trully extreme signing for this Barcelona side. He would bring a lot of defensive naivety to the position (Pique anyone) but would undoubtedly grow into the role and would offer some immense options to the side. If Ibrahimovic leaves and Fabregas signs I would watch intently to see if the transfers do indeed take Barcelona to their next level seeing how they lack a genuine "modern" deep playmaker in the Alonso mould. If Ibrahimovic leaves and anyone else on the planet is signed then it would only reinforce my view that Guardiola is sorely lacking as a manager when it comes to a tactical understanding of the game, a question mark against him that Mourinho turned into a loud and wailing siren last season.
Having said that, this story is very probably all just media guff.
The first issue is that he has had one season, not only at a new club but in a completely new country, at possibly the most hyped club in the world right now.
The second issue is that tactically Barcelona with Ibrahimovic through the middle and Villa down the left is something Spain could only dream of. Playing a genuine "9" in the lone striker spot is in my opinion the way back not forward. A team with Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi tucking in from the right, Ibrahimovic upfront and Villa "striking" from the opponents right fullback position should quite simply be able to play everyone off the face of the Earth.
Villa operating down the right inside forward position of this current Barca side is for me about as close to a "dream team" as you are going to get. I simply do not understand why Ibrahimovic would be being considered for sale.
Unless Barcelona need the money for Fabregas.
Fabregas in Busquets position would be a trully extreme signing for this Barcelona side. He would bring a lot of defensive naivety to the position (Pique anyone) but would undoubtedly grow into the role and would offer some immense options to the side. If Ibrahimovic leaves and Fabregas signs I would watch intently to see if the transfers do indeed take Barcelona to their next level seeing how they lack a genuine "modern" deep playmaker in the Alonso mould. If Ibrahimovic leaves and anyone else on the planet is signed then it would only reinforce my view that Guardiola is sorely lacking as a manager when it comes to a tactical understanding of the game, a question mark against him that Mourinho turned into a loud and wailing siren last season.
Having said that, this story is very probably all just media guff.
Drop Messi then?
Villa is going to make much better use of Barcelona's supply line if played through the middle. Messi the world's best player on the right. And Iniesta will hopefully (finally) go to the next level with his end product if he's used on the left of the front 3, which would create the room for Fabregas.
If Iniesta can do that, then it would be a dream frontline without Zlatan.
Eto'o scored 30 league goals, in a team setup he was familiar with and he also did it with more playing time than Zlatan got this season as he was not the first choice towards the end of this season (As I said in the previous post, according to soccerway.com he only played 23 whole matches in minutes - that makes 16 goals rather impressive IMO). And if we are to attack Eto'o he only scored 12 for Inter this season, Zlatan never did that bad for Inter despite struggling a lot with injuries one of his seasons. And you need to give the man time to adapt, because he had the team built around him at Inter, and he did not have that the same way at Barcelona.
FC Barcelona scored 98 goals this season, they can do a bit better than that, but not much better. meaning replacing Zlatan will have a very little effect on the team effect. It might make them slightly better, but not much. Villa can do things Zlatan can't do, no question about that, but likewise, Zlatan can do things Villa can't do as well.
You're assuming that everything else will remain constant. For example, Messi and Xavi could both get injured, then Barca's total goals scored might say very little about the relative performances of Zlatan last season and Villa this season.
Agreed, but I'd argue that Villa's skills are more suited to Barca's needs, whereas Zlatan's are a bit redundant in a team that can retain possession so well and are blessed with so much creativity.
No he wont, that's the whole point.
When you play strikers through the middle they inevitably come up against two Centrebacks, one marking and one covering, and atleast one pure DM attempting to cut off supply but the game is heading ever increasingly towards two DM's sitting infront of the opponents midfield, holding position and cutting off supply.
Furthermore the game is moving towards dual DM's plus a deep forward or an AMC sitting ahead of the DM's. This works in much the same way as a "Makalele" infront of the defence but instead is a "Makalele" infront of the defending midfielders.
In other words the centre of the average team against which a side like Barcelona will play is unplayable unless those players are utterly brilliant at passing and moving (one of the major reasons why United are so successful by always threatening the flanks, one of the major reasons why Germany chose to and were so successful overloading the flanks). There is simply no change to be had out of the pockets of the centre of a modern 4-2-3-1. And further there is a significantly reduced ability to engineer space and time without having a genuine playmaker operating in the tightest area of the pitch.
Because of the immense congestion through the middle of the pitch, because all modern day defences seek to dominate the centre in both numbers and depth while forcing play wide, modern attacks tend to look more and more like this:
In this image the Spanish Axis of Attack is not from "back to front" because that is precisely how the opponent is set up to defend and precisely where he will defend best. The Spanish Axis of Attack is set up to attack where he will defend worst, where the Spanish players have the greatest opportunity to actually create a goalscoring chance. And that area is behind the covering Centreback peeling off a single marking Fullback. It is fundamentally the same principle as Park peeling off Ferriera in the Charity Shield to overload Essien and force him away from Scholes attacking through the Centre.
In order to maximise the efficient attack of the right areas the Spanish strategy in this match was ultimately this:
The black arrow indicates where pass-and-move football of the highest calibre was aimed. The blue arrow indicates where the runs of the striker were aimed.
You can clearly see here how many of the best passers in the game today take the centre of the defence head-on while one of the most lethal strikers in the game today makes attacking runs into this path from a position of minimal possible cover.
The lines of supply of Spain were designed first to pass-and-move their way through the packed centre to achieve a position where they could accurately feed the true striker making runs from an area of minimal cover into an area that is highly stretched and under immense pressure.
Torres had a poor World Cup because he was fundamentally incapable of contributing to the actual lines of effective, efficient, lethal attack that utilise the correct footballing abilities against the right areas of the defence.
Taking the centre head on with Strikers instead of playmakers is become ever more increasingly a thing of the past. It simply does not pay to have your worst playmakers and most dangerous strikers in the areas where there is maximum cover, minimum space and maximum need for the ability to open up defences with pass-and-move football. I believe that Villa's first ever appearance for Barcelona was on the left wing, and that was rather predictable.
Guys, don't forget how terrible Milan's defense is. Yes they have Nesta, Thiago Silva, Zambrotta etc..
But I think it's overrated, they do not have any youngsters popping up from their academy and they are focusing too much on attack when they actually have pretty good options.
Leonardo failed to utilize Huntelaar which on his day is still a good player. He's just being treated very harshly since he moved to Madrid.
Not to mention thay have Pato, Ronaldinho, Borreillio, F.Inzaghi...
Buying Zlatan would be a very high risk at 40m, and I'd rather invest on a youthful Defender than a Zlatan...
But I think it's overrated, they do not have any youngsters popping up from their academy and they are focusing too much on attack when they actually have pretty good options.
Leonardo failed to utilize Huntelaar which on his day is still a good player. He's just being treated very harshly since he moved to Madrid.
Not to mention thay have Pato, Ronaldinho, Borreillio, F.Inzaghi...
Buying Zlatan would be a very high risk at 40m, and I'd rather invest on a youthful Defender than a Zlatan...
If Xavi and Iniesta both got injured and they would be without their superior playmakers I bet Barcelona would do better with Zlatan than Villa. Because they would have to play more possession and less counter attacks, as well as Zlatan has the vision and creativity to do some sort of playmaking job. And that was probably the reason why they bought him in the first place. Villa and Eto'o are in many ways similar players, so I guess this was one of the thougts.
I don't disagree with that at all. I do believe that Villa fits Barcelona better, he is definatly a stronger counter attacking player. Even though it won't a huge difference in terms of points at the end of season. It will probably make them less predictable. However, I think it could be a massive resource for Barcelona to keep them both, if possible. When I look at the current Barcelona squad it is rather thin, but I guess they have several reserves good enough to step in league matches. We also have a financial reasons why Zlatan needs to depart.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic was without a shadow of a doubt the best player in Italy for for years in a row. And he did good for Barcelona this season, despite of what some muppets in here claim. If they sign him, they know exactly what they are getting... It would be a signing with a rather low risk, if they get him - they get quality.
I don't know about the defense. There were many defenders whom got there last season, they are more played together this season, as well as two new defenders has signed. And last but not least a new goalkeeper that was desperatly needed. I think the defensive problems last season might have to do something with the manager as well...
They are a better team this season, and if Zlatan signs, they will be contenders for the scudetto.
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