Honestly? The impatience of some fans is beyond ridiculous. He's been here 9 months and 1 transfer window, that is no where near long enough to sort out the squad and club he took over. The changes he's made, such as the shift in recruitment strategy to younger talent, are exactly what we need, and decisions he's made, such as the 3 signings (it's early but all successful so far) refusing to sign Dybala when he wasn't committed to the club etc, are exactly right.
How much time is enough time to gauge Ole?
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Honestly? The impatience of some fans is beyond ridiculous. He's been here 9 months and 1 transfer window, that is no where near long enough to sort out the squad and club he took over. The changes he's made, such as the shift in recruitment strategy to younger talent, are exactly what we need, and decisions he's made, such as the 3 signings (it's early but all successful so far) refusing to sign Dybala when he wasn't committed to the club etc, are exactly right.
Not if it severely damages this club. And it might.
Sadly, football doesn't work like that. In fact, nothing does because ifs don't create realities. If it wasn't for VAR and if they hadn't wasted a dozen good chances, City would have been on level points with Liverpool. But they're not, they are five 5 points behind them and the pressure is on them not to drop any more points. We have played 6 very winnable games and we won just two of them. This is the reality of things. Or as one of my teachers used to say: "If" followed by "would have" isn't even an excuse, it's only a sad man's tale.
I understand where you're coming from but going by that logic Moyes should still be here trying to figure it out. All he needed was a bit more time, after all. But when he was saying that in today's PL, with all the money being available, even Sir Alex would struggle to keep up, people were clamouring and they were asking for his head on a plate. Why? Because he had shown nothing to prove that he's the man for the job. Time has to be earned, even when you are an ex legend of the club.
Couldn't we have both?
I'd expect him/the club to make some right decisions. We need more than 'some' though.
Yup. As opposed to the cocksure people going "Ole's clueless, get the feck out, Ole!", I am super happy that I don't have to make those judgement calls, as I know I sure as shit don't have a crystal ball. I am hoping that a patient clear-out and a slow rebuild will prove more productive than what we've been doing the past 6 years... That, and at least it's not as fecking boring as we were under Van Gaal (neverminding matches against top 4, he seemed to nail those).
I hear you. But maybe this time it could be different. Ole is not going to throw his players under the bus, call them virus etc. So maybe this time players will have that bit extra motivation to help out their manager. I am trying to be optimistic here.
Ok, I get what youre saying but if you think Ole doesnt have the tactical ability then explain why two managers who are renowned tacticians (LvG and Mourinho) failed at this club. Each time we replace a manager we are kicking the problem down the road. We need to accept this is not a management issue, its a personnel issue. No matter who would come in after Ole they would still need the time to fix the squad.
Who expected him to sort out the squad in 1 transfer window? Nobody. But ffs are you fine with us being on a relegation level run of results? We are not talking 5 matches, we are absolutely useless for 20 matches with absolutely no signs of it changing anytime soon, it will get even worse if anything. Why does he deserve to get more time? Because he smiles all the time? I don't have a problem with Ole off the pitch but on it he is absolutely out of his depth.
He'd had success in Scotland and 3 years of failure with us, Ole has had success in Norway and a mixed 9 months with us. Both took over clubs in the shit in terms of squad character, resilience and quality (arguably SAF took over a squad with better relative quality) and a club structure that needed radical overhaul.
The comparisons aren't as ridiculous as some make out. I'm not saying the outcome will be the same, but the off field decisions Ole has made so far, his recruitment and the players he's targeting and the focus on the way we want to play rather than the stopping the opposition playing all give me plenty of hope for the future.
What decisions do you think he's got wrong?
know who else isn't fit enough to play two full 90 minute matches in a row the same week? Sadio Mané.
There are signs of improvement this season, we're far stronger defensively, we could and probably should have won every game. We were the better side in the first half against West Ham and should have scored twice at the start of the 2nd half, then lost our way and confidence and they scored a belter of a free kick, it happens, especially when a club is on a bad run. We were also without our best CF and best CM.
That is our form over the last 19 games. Regardless of context, it is an abysmal run. And it's half a season of PL games. I don't think Chelsea are in better shape squad wise.
Anyhoo hope Ole improves us but I'm not feeling confident.
I have a lurking dread that the recruits are looking good because they haven't had the good stuff they've learned at their previous clubs coached out of them yet by our clueless lot.
I bet LVG and Mourinho also felt they could have every game.
I mean I've stopped caring about any of that. I genuinely believe our issues are not trying/motivation/winning mentality but passing/cohesion and what have you. That's where Jose struggled last season and that's what Ole has just carried on.
That's why I feel we need an exceptional coach.
Sure it's a bad run, but the end of last season can't just be tagged on without understanding that there were reasons why it ended so badly. It makes far more sense to start the clock after the end of last season when judging our form. We've been somewhat unlucky so far this season, and we're still level on points with Spurs and Chelsea. If that doesn't at least change the tint of that run to your mind, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
And maybe Chelsea aren't much better off squad-wise, but we're groaning under the weight of a post-Fergie malaise... I'm pretty sure that makes the pressure far higher at United. We're like a beaten wife, flinching every time something seems to be going awry.
That's the spirit.
I agree. I've been moaning about our quality of play, lack of possession, lack of movement, lack of creativity in midfield, unrealistic amount of pressing without keeping the ball etc. even when we were winning under Ole. But in order to do that, a) we need the players capable of doing that b) Ole does need time. It is hard to fathom that he can have us playing good football right now but I am not ruling it out. The results make us emotional but reality is that changing football style takes a season and players have to buy in and believe in the manager. He's gone out and made his job a hell of a lot harder by getting rid of players who could at least get us some results without first having their replacements.
The missed penalties at Wolves and against Palace are looking more and more significant at the moment, if those had gone in we would be 3rd this morning after our first defeat of the season and the picture would look very different. Not saying this to make excuses but to illustrate the fine margins that decide these things.
For this season, regardless of whether you are a believer or not, we should not make any decisions until the summer. If we axe Ole now or even at Christmas time we are then sifting through the unemployment line and unless you want Jose back who do you think we are going to get? The board and the fans need to be dispassionate about this, the time to review will be in the final weeks of the season when we can judge if we are on the right track. Ole might get a couple of players in the January window and find a winning formula and we could be content that the plan is on track but if we are struggling and showing no progress then the need for change is clear.
Deciding this in May allows us to look at a wider group of candidates and then give the new man a full summer to prepare as well as a transfer window to add a few of his targets. This would be the sensible approach as opposed to the knee jerk reaction of ditching the manager mid season again and tearing up a plan before it has even had a chance to develop and presumably making a panic appointment.
For this season, regardless of whether you are a believer or not, we should not make any decisions until the summer. If we axe Ole now or even at Christmas time we are then sifting through the unemployment line and unless you want Jose back who do you think we are going to get? The board and the fans need to be dispassionate about this, the time to review will be in the final weeks of the season when we can judge if we are on the right track. Ole might get a couple of players in the January window and find a winning formula and we could be content that the plan is on track but if we are struggling and showing no progress then the need for change is clear.
Deciding this in May allows us to look at a wider group of candidates and then give the new man a full summer to prepare as well as a transfer window to add a few of his targets. This would be the sensible approach as opposed to the knee jerk reaction of ditching the manager mid season again and tearing up a plan before it has even had a chance to develop and presumably making a panic appointment.
Very negative and I can't agree
Rochdale (H) Win
Arsenal (H) Win (we get Pogba and Martial back and they still have Luiz)
AZ Aalkmar (A) Draw
Newcastle (A) Win
Liverpool (H) Draw
Partizan (A) Win
Norwich (A) Win
Bournemouth (A) Draw
Partizan (H) Win
Brighton (H) Win
Sheffield (A) Win
Astana (A) Win
Arsenal (H) Win (we get Pogba and Martial back and they still have Luiz)
AZ Aalkmar (A) Draw
Newcastle (A) Win
Liverpool (H) Draw
Partizan (A) Win
Norwich (A) Win
Bournemouth (A) Draw
Partizan (H) Win
Brighton (H) Win
Sheffield (A) Win
Astana (A) Win
Yes. For some reason this football club and seemingly a lot of fans have decided to ignore the game of Football and focus on character and purchases. We are failing at the basics, control, pass, positioning and movement, there is no magical solution outside of training and coaching.
We had been crap for a year and were hovering above the relegation zone when he took over. Thanks to him we finished that season comfortably mid-table. The following season we finished second. So there was absolutely no "failure" about his first 18+ months.
The doubts started to emerge when we failed to kick on, despite significant investment, in the following season (88/89). But the issue was much more one of consistency (great one match, awful the next) than of just being generally bad like we seem to be now. And he'd got that season and a half's solid start to fall back on; Ole's purple patch lasted 17 games, I think.
You are very optimistic with that. I don't know from what form you are suggesting all these wins. I would stick my neck on the line and say we will win a max 4 away games under Ole.
Draw at home to Liverpool? we will be lucky to only lose by 2-0.
He doesn't have to. Neither does Fred, Mane can start 2 games in a row in the same week though, because he has been getting minutes since week 1
Fred first minutes of the season were against Astana, very stupid
It's probably enough time to gauge that he's not going to be the man for the job long term but it would also be lunacy to fire him right now. Give him the season and then probably go all out for Pochettino if we haven't come top 4/won stuff. We need a little bit of stability with this current group given their age and the intended direction of the club.
A lot of what I am seeing from so called pundits is fair enough, we aren't good enough and we know that. We need better players. I saw Garth Crooks write an article, where he said Ole is out of his depth. But we've been down that road with experienced premier league managers in Moyes and Jose. We even went with European experienced manager in LVG. Quite simply the recruitment has been awful. I think we need to let Ole play this one out. He needs to get a spine in that team. He's started with Maguire and resigning De Gea. Our central midfield and striking options are pure and utter feeble. Even when we address those 2 glaring issues, we still need a new left back, we still need wingers, we still need a centre half partner for Maguire and further support in midfield. I do think addressing the spine at least as an urgent matter would buy us some time, in that we would at least be competitive. It's going to take multiple windows to get this right. I think changing managers at this stage won't help. Watching Mark Noble stroll around like he's fecking Paul Scholes was sickening. The amount of time and space we give him for that 1st goal was disgusting.
I see so many people blaming the board for the current state of the team which is 50% true, but the other 50% should come from tactics and squad selection. So go ahead and say give him a season but ask yourself the question is what you seeing on the pitch enough to warrant that.
He keeps on talking to his backroom staff he sits in the technical area and let's Phelan bark orders. He brings on gomes when the game is gone. For this you can't blame the board, this is tactical deficiency. This team is good enough to finish top 4 with the right Manager and tactics. I'm afraid it's not him.
He keeps on talking to his backroom staff he sits in the technical area and let's Phelan bark orders. He brings on gomes when the game is gone. For this you can't blame the board, this is tactical deficiency. This team is good enough to finish top 4 with the right Manager and tactics. I'm afraid it's not him.
9 wins and 3 draws, that is some impressive optimism considering we have lost 10 of the last 19 and only won 5 of them.
I'm almost certain we will lose at least 4 of the next 12.
Ideally yes, maybe my post was clumsily worded but I know what I meant.
Patience is a virtue of the few..
Crikey, Mr Glass Half Full or what? So literally no losses in the next 12 games? Let’s hope so matey
I'd agree 9 months isn't long enough to judge him in terms of what and where we want the team to be.
I do think its long enough to start judging whether we are making the right progress though. He's got players in. He's allowed five or six to leave. He's had enough time to instill a style of play and a full preseason to work on the things he felt the team needed to.
6 games maybe isn't enough of a season to make a judgement on as factors like injuries and luck over that period play a big part, but you'd expect to see performances that suggest a direction the team is going.
You can argue that was more evident in Ole's first six games than his last six. Moyes was also being given the boot after a similar amount of time and I don't think many would argue that was wrong.
Not saying I think Ole needs to go because I think overall it's hit and miss at the moment, but he should be expecting and demanding a lot more at this point than players walking cluelessly around the pitch. You don't need 9 months to stamp out issues like that.
I thought Ole would get to the end of season however; it looks like he could be gone by December.
You would want to give managers time but that is when you see improvement and what the principles are. Ole said he was looking forward to pre season to get this team fit and pressing. We saw it for few games and on the weekend it was non existent.
The first goal was the killer for me, no one around Noble outside our penalty area? I don't care what team it is if you allow a CM time and space outside the box, they will pick a pass, this doesn't mean tackle but close the player down, make him decide what to do quicker so he makes the wrong pass or a inaccurate pass.
Crikey, Mr Glass Half Full or what? So literally no losses in the next 12 games? Let’s hope so matey
Maybe a little too optimistic about the Liverpool game but the others are all winnable. Arsenal look like a test but their defence is a shambles and they are terrible away from home usually so I am going to stick to my guns with that one. I am always going to be an optimist though, a little shift in luck and a good run like this is very possible.
I have mixed feelings. I don't know what he brings to the table in terms of tactics, philosophy, management, motivation etc and he may very well be of the level of Moyes or worse but I am tired of the managerial merry-go-round and he seems to be fairly ruthless in his dispatching of players we have wanted out. I am sure Matic will be gone this Summer. He may just be the guy to help us reset, but I doubt we'll reach any high level as this would require him to do something special and only a select few are actually special
He’s had more than enough time to start the implementation of a style & to show signs of progress.
He hasn’t & we’ve regressed.
He needs to go as soon as possible.
He hasn’t & we’ve regressed.
He needs to go as soon as possible.
I mean, it's this and the Palace game now. We can't have another performance like that because then the only reasonable conclusion to come to is that Ole isn't capable of stamping it out or isn't even aware how poor it is.
Hed have actually given me a lot more confidence if he'd hauled Matic off at half time or changed something after 30 minutes. Even if it hadn't worked, it would at least send a message that the team isn't doing what he is asking it to and he isn't happy to just accept it. At the moment all you can do is speculate as to why we played so abjectly because we seem to just plod along with it through thr game as if it IS part of the plan.
Alright, i got the name wrong but i don't agree with the consensus. I do think Gomes can be a difference. He can do absolutely fantastic with the likes of Pogba and Fred around him. He's 19 and i think it's the right time. What hope do we have with the likes of Matic and Perriera. Don't even get me started on Mctominay! Also i suggested a team with the mixture of youth and experience like SAF used to do back in the day. The best way to improve the youth players is by getting them to play alongside experienced players. Gomes has huge potential and i think he can be the next Mata of our team.