How much time is enough time to gauge Ole?

[RedNed77]

He should have until Christmas 2020, i.e. two more windows and a chance to stanp his mark.

The correct answer.

 

[Volumiza]

It doesn't matter if he's the main problem it's whether he's the man to bring us back to success. Recruitment seems good if not mismanaged but that's about it.

Recruitment has been good, that is a big positive in Ole's favour. I like how he is going for talent and attitude rather than talent and star status.

I'm hoping he plays youth and then goes at the end of the season.

Why at the end of the season after playing youth? He will play youth, we know that, my concern is that actually these youth players (greenwood aside) arent good enough. So he should keep playing them?

I think he will keep playing them out of necessity actually.

I'll give him January to see how he does with another signing.

I agree, give him the January window and then the rest of the season. Regardless of table position, his performance should be judged on team performance. We shouldn't however extend his stay if there has been no improvement in our play by the end of this season. What would be the point in that?

 

[Eriku]

Do think anybody right now is particularly bothered about not challenging City and Liverpool. But it's fair to suggest that 19 points in 19 games, considering the football that we've played in that period, is a reflection of a manager who simply isn't good enough. I don't mind the argument that he deserves this season or till December to turn it around. But I can see the merit in the other view too.

Also it had to be said that sometimes going backwards just means you're going backwards with no inevitable forward movement on the horizon.

You’d think that’s what people are expecting, considering the level of freaking out on here.

I can’t be arsed to write it up again, but I trust you recognise that the whole 19 out of 19 thing is ignoring a bunch of context, and that it makes a bit more sense to throw out the end of last season when judging Ole’s performances.

We’re level with Spurs and Chelsea, who are in better shape than us when it comes to squad depth, for example.

And yes, of course we may just be taking a step back. I don’t have a crystal ball, any more than anybody else.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

I really hope he can turn this around but i suspect that the period between mid-December-mid January during which we'll play Burnley, Arsenal, City and Liverpool away will be very harsh and most of the fanbase will lose its last shreds of patience. It will also be the period when we will probably lose sight of top-four, so Ed will start sharpening his axe too. Early February at Stamford Bridge will be the killing blow.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Honestly speaking we had a great chance of inducing academy graduates with the best in the current squad. It was easily our best shot of winning against West Ham. Anyone who watched the Astana game would know that our youth system is better than our first team right now. Ole should've seen this in the first 20 mins against Astana. It was totally in Ole's hand to choose the best option for West Ham and imo this was the squad he should've picked,

De Gea
AWB Maguire Lindelof Dalot
Fred Mctominay
Perreira Gomez James
Rashford

I think the introduction of Gomez would've changed the whole game.

The next game against Arsenal will be a huge test for us,

De Gea
AWB Maguire Lindelof Dalot
Mctominay
Fred Gomez Pogba
Greenwood Martial

This would be the perfect time to test out our academy graduates. We don't have any other options, Do we?
I hope Ole realizes that and tries something that excites every MUN fan on the planet. We know that it's not going to be easy this season but all we want from Ole is to try something new every game and bring better play.

 

[haram]

I have seen enough.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

Recruitment has been good, that is a big positive in Ole's favour. I like how he is going for talent and attitude rather than talent and star status.

It’s far too soon to make any judgement on that. It’s only been a handful of games!

 

[Handré1990]

I’d say we’ll have a pretty good idea come January.

 

[bosnian_red]

I liked his last summer but we needed more, and hopefully we'll do that in January and next summer to fill the holes. I can't so much criticize Ole for not getting the shit show of a lineup we saw yesterday to play well, because they are mostly shit players and players out of position. You could blame Ole for approving the sales of Lukaku and Sanchez, but they had to go IMO and I fully agree with the decision. Unfortunately for us we didn't have time to bring in replacements (or Woodward failed in doing so). Ole still decided it was more beneficial to have them gone and have a smaller squad and hope we make it through the half season before the January window. It's a risk, but its one that is fine with me in the grand scheme of things. Put anyone in charge of this squad, and if Pogba and Martial are out, they'd be mostly hopeless too. If all are fit, I really do think we have big potential and we just need to give it a bit of time. If any of the key attackers are fit, we'll struggle massively because of a lack of depth in attack and midfield. That's just the way this season will go until we get the chance to strengthen, but we can't waste any more windows, regardless of manager.

 

[spiriticon]

Never mind just Ole. We should also sack the next 3 managers in advance (whoever they may be) because I don't think we'll win the title in 3 years.

That's probably why Ed is refusing to spend. We need that money to compensate managers for the next 5 years

 

[Eriku]

Honestly speaking we had a great chance of inducing academy graduates with the best in the current squad. It was easily our best shot of winning against West Ham. Anyone who watched the Astana game would know that our youth system is better than our first team right now. Ole should've seen this in the first 20 mins against Astana. It was totally in Ole's hand to choose the best option for West Ham and imo this was the squad he should've picked,

De Gea
AWB Maguire Lindelof Dalot
Fred Mctominay
Perreira Gomez James
Rashford

I think the introduction of Gomez would've changed the whole game.

The next game against Arsenal will be a huge test for us,

De Gea
AWB Maguire Lindelof Dalot
Mctominay
Fred Gomez Pogba
Greenwood Martial

This would be the perfect time to test out our academy graduates. We don't have any other options, Do we?
I hope Ole realizes that and tries something that excites every MUN fan on the planet. We know that it's not going to be easy this season but all we want from Ole is to try something new every game and bring better play.

First off, it's Gomes, not Gomez... Secondly, you really think Gomes would have been a game changer? He didn't look bad against Astana, but he certainly didn't do much either, and that was against a Kazakh team at Old Trafford... this was West Ham away from home.

I'm a fan of using academy players, but to suggest that the youth team would beat our first teamers right now is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[bosnian_red]

It’s far too soon to make any judgement on that. It’s only been a handful of games!

Maguire and Wan Bissaka are both quality players that were quality players before they joined United, both the right age and mentality and both addressed absolutely dire needs in our squad. Might be early with James, but at the very least he is a capable squad member as a wide player on both sides and that's also something we needed. Maybe he shouldnt be starting every week, but he'd still be a valuable squad member even if we signed someone like Sancho. Then the sales that we made were all players that had to go (even if some only left on loan). We still need more out like Bailly/mata/matic, which I'm sure we will in due time.

 

[thejtrain]

I have seen enough.

This. It could very well get worse before it gets better with him.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I am not ready to give up on him yet. However, with that being said, if it turns out that he is not the man for the job, I hope that we find someone that follows the same plan and continues with buying players that are young, hungry and want to be here. No more mercenaries who are only looking to cash in a pay cheque...

 

[Tom Cato]

While he did quite a good job with getting rid of some players and bringing in James and AWB (still not 100 % convinced that Maguire is worth his money) our football has become even worse since he is here.
No real plan, back 5 is solid overall (looking at the prices and wages they better should be!) but a terrible midfield and no clue going forward.
Bad line-up decisions and zero input from the side line.

Why he did not start Fred yesterday and played what might be the worst midfield the PL has seen this season is beyond me.

I'm happy to explain this one to you. Fred just featured against Astana. It was his first start for the club this season. Fred is not yet game fit to play back to back full matches, so he started on the bench. That is why Fred was not on the pitch instead of Matic.

The rest is as you know. Angel Gomes did not blow everyone away against Astana, so he had not earned a starting spot against much better opposition.

The players we had on the pitch, are the same configuration that just beat Leicester. OGS picked the best team from a bad situation.

But hey, at least he's putting his words where is mouth is and put Gomes on the last 10 minutes trying to chase a goal.

Injuries on Pogba, Greenwood, Martial, Shaw, Bailly and Dalot. Now we add Marcus Rashford to that list.

There is no team in the Premier League this season with a wilder amount of bad luck with their playing personell than Manchester United this season. Pogba, Martial and Shaw are absolutely crucial to the makeup of this team. I feel so bad for the staff that has to rely on players who are simply not good enough, or have completely disappeared off the face of the earth in Rashford.

The worst thing is that we're not scoring on 100% chances. We had TWO again last night. That we don't go to 1-1 is a disgusting absurdity.

The old guard are not delivering. Ole's new recruits are delivering. And that's the story of the season so far.

 

[kouroux]

I have seen enough.

Same here. Sometimes it is just too obvious

 

[Withnail]

It doesn't matter if he's the main problem it's whether he's the man to bring us back to success. Recruitment seems good if not mismanaged but that's about it.

I'm hoping he plays youth and then goes at the end of the season. I'll give him January to see how he does with another signing.

Presuming there's any 'value in the market' that is.

 

[jem]

How is it revisionist? Since when did us fans decide appointments? Or are you suggesting Woodfraud basis his decisions on fans? Because if he does no wonder we're fecked.

I have no doubt that Woodward couldn't wait to clamber aboard the #oleatthewheel bandwagon. And yes, we are fecked.

 

[Withnail]

I'm happy to explain this one to you. Fred just featured against Astana. It was his first start for the club this season. Fred is not yet game fit to play back to back full matches, so he started on the bench. That is why Fred was not on the pitch instead of Matic.

The rest is as you know. Angel Gomes did not blow everyone away against Astana, so he had not earned a starting spot against much better opposition.

The players we had on the pitch, are the same configuration that just beat Leicester. OGS picked the best team from a bad situation.

But hey, at least he's putting his words where is mouth is and put Gomes on the last 10 minutes trying to chase a goal.

Injuries on Pogba, Greenwood, Martial, Shaw, Bailly and Dalot. Now we add Marcus Rashford to that list.

There is no team in the Premier League this season with a wilder amount of bad luck with their playing personell than Manchester United this season. Pogba, Martial and Shaw are absolutely crucial to the makeup of this team. I feel so bad for the staff that has to rely on players who are simply not good enough, or have completely disappeared off the face of the earth in Rashford.

The worst thing is that we're not scoring on 100% chances. We had TWO again last night. That we don't go to 1-1 is a disgusting absurdity.

The old guard are not delivering. Ole's new recruits are delivering. And that's the story of the season so far.

Good Post.

 

[Castia]

You can see what he's trying to do though, after 6 years of shit he's had to take further steps back to sort the squad out. It was full of mediocre players who were here just for the pay.

I dont care who you are, we aren't going to miraculously become challengers again with 3 new signings and a new spend of £70m. We're left in a complete mess which needs building from the ground up.

Is Ole the man to build the squad? I'm not sure but believe me if its Poch, Pep or any top manager in control of this squad they aren't going anywhere fast it needs time.

If the board would have signed 2 extra players in the summer which they should have done given the players we lost I feel we'd be in a much better position.

 

[red4ever 79]

I'm happy to explain this one to you. Fred just featured against Astana. It was his first start for the club this season. Fred is not yet game fit to play back to back full matches, so he started on the bench. That is why Fred was not on the pitch instead of Matic.

The rest is as you know. Angel Gomes did not blow everyone away against Astana, so he had not earned a starting spot against much better opposition.

The players we had on the pitch, are the same configuration that just beat Leicester. OGS picked the best team from a bad situation.

But hey, at least he's putting his words where is mouth is and put Gomes on the last 10 minutes trying to chase a goal.

Injuries on Pogba, Greenwood, Martial, Shaw, Bailly and Dalot. Now we add Marcus Rashford to that list.

There is no team in the Premier League this season with a wilder amount of bad luck with their playing personell than Manchester United this season. Pogba, Martial and Shaw are absolutely crucial to the makeup of this team. I feel so bad for the staff that has to rely on players who are simply not good enough, or have completely disappeared off the face of the earth in Rashford.

The worst thing is that we're not scoring on 100% chances. We had TWO again last night. That we don't go to 1-1 is a disgusting absurdity.

The old guard are not delivering. Ole's new recruits are delivering. And that's the story of the season so far.

Im so happy we have someone on the caf that has inside knowledge of players/fitness and eveything going on. Ole er det deg?

 

[Cassidy]

I'm happy to explain this one to you. Fred just featured against Astana. It was his first start for the club this season. Fred is not yet game fit to play back to back full matches, so he started on the bench. That is why Fred was not on the pitch instead of Matic.

The rest is as you know. Angel Gomes did not blow everyone away against Astana, so he had not earned a starting spot against much better opposition.

The players we had on the pitch, are the same configuration that just beat Leicester. OGS picked the best team from a bad situation.

But hey, at least he's putting his words where is mouth is and put Gomes on the last 10 minutes trying to chase a goal.

Injuries on Pogba, Greenwood, Martial, Shaw, Bailly and Dalot. Now we add Marcus Rashford to that list.

There is no team in the Premier League this season with a wilder amount of bad luck with their playing personell than Manchester United this season. Pogba, Martial and Shaw are absolutely crucial to the makeup of this team. I feel so bad for the staff that has to rely on players who are simply not good enough, or have completely disappeared off the face of the earth in Rashford.

The worst thing is that we're not scoring on 100% chances. We had TWO again last night. That we don't go to 1-1 is a disgusting absurdity.

The old guard are not delivering. Ole's new recruits are delivering. And that's the story of the season so far.

That can only be the fault of the manager that a player he had during pre season is not yet fit enough to play 6 games into a PL season

 

[ryansgirl]

I understand why some are saying what they are on here but let's have some perspective. Matic, Marcus and McGuire came close to scoring and should have scored against West Ham. The result would have been 3-2 our way. What would have been a blip of a game in the Manchester United team of 10 years ago has far more impact now because of our club's struggles since Sir Alex went.

The stakes are much higher because United has slipped and seems to keep doing it. However, our club and team are not in freefall. Let's not get it twisted into knots. It's worse because of what is expected of Manchester United and what the reality has been since David Moyes took over etc. However, this is normal for clubs that are re-building and much as I want success as much as those of you tearing Ole and the club and players to pieces, Manchester United is not an exceptional case here.

It all went to pot after the retirement of Charlton/exit of Law/decline of Best etc. Then after Tommy Docherty brought back the flair but couldn't win the title, Dave Sexton had minor success but changed the style of play, was a difficult man to communicate with - David Moyes in the 70s, Ron Atkinson won silverware but not the title because he didn't care enough to curb the lack of discipline within the team.

While that history reminder won't help United get back to the top, it certainly puts things in perspective. The simple fact now is we didn't recruit enough during the off season and Ole is the first to know that. Much of this was beyond his control.

In the West Ham and Crystal Palace games we certainly could have done with Lukaku as our squad is inadequate regarding striking power and experience - but should Ole have kept somebody who clearly was at odds with Manchester United? Certainly not. Same for Sanchez - yes, it might have been a positive had he been in the team for those two games but again this is not only about ability here. Half the battle has been won - clearing out players who are beyond it now or have an attitude that brings the squad and dressing room down.

We badly need an experienced midfielder and an experienced striker. I think we should sell Paul P as I don't see him sparking this team. He hasn't responded to adversity with passion and determination - he is understandably frustrated and doesn't have the commitment to provide the example we need. Sell him when we can and get two new players with experience.

 

[Chaky_Best]

Next 12 games until December and I don't see us winning a lot. So I suppose that this will be the end of Ole at United by then

Rochdale (H) Win
Arsenal (H) Lose
AZ Aalkmar (A) Draw
Newcastle (A) Draw
Liverpool (H) Lose
Partizan (A) Win
Norwich (A) Lose
Bournemouth (A) Lose
Partizan (H) Win
Brighton (H) Win
Sheffield (A) Draw
Astana (A) Win

 

[Edy2]

My issue is that the team doesn't seem to be well coached. I don't expect the team to be perfect because we barely have a full starting eleven when everyone is fit but even then I don't see much synergy.

This is my worry. I want him given more time and expect he will but I am still seeing these players not do the basics at all well. I expected him to have at least addressed this by now. Their movement, interplay and speed of thought is still very poor.

 

[nickm]

If only people understood that sometimes you have to take a few steps backwards before you can move forwards. Not saying it’s nailed on to work, but this summer we were told it was going to take time, and now people are apoplectic over the fact that we don’t seem to be likely to challenge City and Liverpool.

We culled the squad of its experienced players then gave it to an unproven manager operating in a shaky structure. What a reckless gamble.

 

[Apokalips]

I can't see him turning it around. The resources argument doesn't wash for me when we spent a world record fee on a CB. Ole doesn't seem to be proactive at all and every post match interview is about how "we ran and tried but just didn't put our chances away". He also doesn't seem concerned by the lack of chance creation, although obviously we don't know the real feelings behind the scenes.

We also continually see much lesser teams that look more organised and well drilled. You shouldn't need to spend the King's ransom in order to make a team look better than ours does style wise.

 

[NWRed]

Yeah because every manager will turn into SAF if we give him 5 years.

The point you're failing to grasp is that if the impatient idiots who wanted rid of SAF in 89/90 had their way there would have been no success. The club stuck with him because they could see what he was doing behind the scenes to lay the foundations of success. I'm not saying that the end result will be the same but decisions Ole has made since coming in are about laying the foundations of future success, we need to give him the time to see it through.

 

[Castia]

Next 12 games until December and I don't see us winning a lot. So I suppose that this will be the end of Ole at United by then

Rochdale (H) Win
Arsenal (H) Lose
AZ Aalkmar (A) Draw
Newcastle (A) Draw
Liverpool (H) Lose
Partizan (A) Win
Norwich (A) Lose
Bournemouth (A) Lose
Partizan (H) Win
Brighton (H) Win
Sheffield (A) Draw
Astana (A) Win

The way we're playing at the moment that looks a difficult run of fixtures. Tough home games with Arsenal and Liverpool then dodgy trips to Bournemouth, Newcastle, Sheff United and Norwich.

It's going to be a shit few months I think.

 

[Withnail]

That can only be the fault of the manager that a player he had during pre season is not yet fit enough to play 6 games into a PL season

Fred missed most of pre-season though didn't he? He was getting married (again)

 

[Cassidy]

Fred missed most of pre-season though didn't he? He was getting married (again)

No he missed some. And again we are 6 PL games in. There has been more than enough time to build his fitness beyond this point. Mane missed nearly all of preseason will Liverpool

 

[nickm]

The point you're failing to grasp is that if the impatient idiots who wanted rid of SAF in 89/90 had their way there would have been no success. The club stuck with him because they could see what he was doing behind the scenes to lay the foundations of success.

He also had an excellent managerial CV.

 

[Castia]

We culled the squad of its experienced players then gave it to an unproven manager operating in a shaky structure. What a reckless gamble.

It is a gamble but if we would have recruited properly we wouldn't be in this mess. It was obvious big things was going to happen this summer, even Ole was openly speaking about it to the press.

I feel he's done his part, he's culled the squad of players who needed moving on but we didn't back him with the right recruitment. The 3 players we signed look good but we needed 4-5 minimum given the state of the squad and players sold.

I dont think people would be bothered seeing Lukaku go if we replaced him with a £70m striker, we should have had all this planned months in advance. City was in a situation a few years ago and almost replaced their full defence in one window including signing a new keeper, that's what we needed to do but we just did half the job.

 

[Eriku]

We culled the squad of its experienced players then gave it to an unproven manager operating in a shaky structure. What a reckless gamble.

Herrera wasn't staying, so we didn't cull him. Fellaini is... well, Fellaini. Lukaku was clearly not taking things seriously, considering how quickly he slimmed down for the sake of playing for Inter, and Sanchez was............ I don't even.

This may not work out, and we really could do with some replacement for the people we sent out, but maybe there's a benefit to squad unity to get out players not devoted to the cause? And I don't know about you, but I would rather have a shaky squad for a season rather than get in more mercenaries.

 

[Tom Cato]

That can only be the fault of the manager that a player he had during pre season is not yet fit enough to play 6 games into a PL season

He is fit enough to play.. He just played against Astana. There is a big difference between 90 and 30 minutes though.

 

[Tom Cato]

Im so happy we have someone on the caf that has inside knowledge of players/fitness and eveything going on. Ole er det deg?

I know that you're being sarcastic and confrontational, but I do happen to work in sports and have intimate knowledge of fitness and endurance. So you know, take my opinion as educated or just blow me off as a clown, your pick.

 

[dove]

The point you're failing to grasp is that if the impatient idiots who wanted rid of SAF in 89/90 had their way there would have been no success. The club stuck with him because they could see what he was doing behind the scenes to lay the foundations of success. I'm not saying that the end result will be the same but decisions Ole has made since coming in are about laying the foundations of future success, we need to give him the time to see it through.

Honestly this constant comparison with SAF is beyond ridiculous and is just the worst excuse for our failing manager you can possibly think of. One was a very young but already established as a very promising manager having already won multiple trophies, coming to a seriously struggling club (much much worse than we are now) and our status was nowhere close to where we are now. Another one (Ole) has been picked basically just because he is our ex player and we are on a relegation form for 6 months now. How are these situations even remotely close?

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Next 12 games until December and I don't see us winning a lot. So I suppose that this will be the end of Ole at United by then

Rochdale (H) Win
Arsenal (H) Lose
AZ Aalkmar (A) Draw
Newcastle (A) Draw
Liverpool (H) Lose
Partizan (A) Win
Norwich (A) Lose
Bournemouth (A) Lose
Partizan (H) Win
Brighton (H) Win
Sheffield (A) Draw
Astana (A) Win

Don't see us losing to arsenal at home. One-man that would be the pits - worse than WH away.

 

[ryansgirl]

The point you're failing to grasp is that if the impatient idiots who wanted rid of SAF in 89/90 had their way there would have been no success. The club stuck with him because they could see what he was doing behind the scenes to lay the foundations of success. I'm not saying that the end result will be the same but decisions Ole has made since coming in are about laying the foundations of future success, we need to give him the time to see it through.

Yes, yes, yes. Alex Ferguson actually was deemed to be a failure after 3 years because his record of success with Aberdeen was not replicated at Manchester United in that time period. Televised games around that time made a deal out of the fans who were screaming 'Fergie Out'.

Nobody who supports Ole is saying his situation matches that of Alex Ferguson - we are simply pointing out there are precedents at United that demonstrate why managers need time. The managerial merry-go-round since Ferguson's departure has been a matter of embarrassment for our club as stability is the best foundation for success.

 

[Cassidy]

He is fit enough to play.. He just played against Astana. There is a big difference between 90 and 30 minutes though.

No shit, he isn't fit enough to play 90 is based on how he has been managed up to now