Gaming Horizon Forbidden West (PS4/PS5)

Ratchet isn't even proper "next gen". They only got a PS5 dev kit six months before release!

I don't really know what the issue is. What even is next gen now? The main pull of these consoles is 4k/60fps output, ray tracing, dual sense and 3d sound - Horizon will have all of those things.
Are you yourself not curious what devs like santa Monica and Guerilla could do when not constrained by 2013 hardware? The CPU inside ps5 is order of magnitude more powerful than the jaguar cores inside the ps4 so just things like the machine AI in Forbidden West could be something we've never seen before. I guess we won't know until ps4 is truly put out to pasture.
If in 6 months they say the next spiderman game will also be ps4 compatible will you still be happy?
 
Are you yourself not curious what devs like santa Monica and Guerilla could do when not constrained by 2013 hardware? The CPU inside ps5 is order of magnitude more powerful than the jaguar cores inside the ps4 so just things like the machine AI in Forbidden West could be something we've never seen before. I guess we won't know until ps4 is truly put out to pasture.
If in 6 months they say the next spiderman game will also be ps4 compatible will you still be happy?
Of course I'd prefer it but I'm also realistic and Sony simply won't abandon a console with 100m+ sales in a time period when a lot of the world can't buy a ps5 for their biggest games. It's not ideal but I don't think it doesn't make the PS5 still worth the upgrade.
 
The graphics on astrobot are amazing

They're good but not amazing. There are games that look equally as pretty on the last gen.

The point I was making was graphics are not going to make the leaps forward you seem to be expecting them to.
 
The main pull of these consoles is 4k/60fps output, ray tracing, dual sense and 3d sound - Horizon will have all of those things.

This gen is all about this.

The 5 and Series consoles are incremental improvements. We will never see the jump in graphical improvement from 32 to 128 bit graphics ever again.
 
They're good but not amazing. There are games that look equally as pretty on the last gen.

The point I was making was graphics are not going to make the leaps forward you seem to be expecting them to.
100% I am yet to see a game that looks as good as TLOU2 did, especially in regards to faces.

The big leap in reality now is frame rate on consoles and loading times.

Also VR/AR are probably the next big step in gaming.
 
The best games never come out in the first couple of years of a new console.

It's one thing having all that extra power and capability, but it always takes a while for developers to figure out how to get the most of it.
 
Reviews are out and it seems to be doing as expected, very high scores across the board. I've watched ACG's review, he absolutely loved it but found it a bit buggy compared to the original. Still an easy buy according to him. SkillUp has an absolute monster of a review (38 mins) titled "Horizon Forbidden West is absolutely superb", so yeah, that bodes well. I'll be watching that later on.
 
Reviews are out and it seems to be doing as expected, very high scores across the board. I've watched ACG's review, he absolutely loved it but found it a bit buggy compared to the original. Still an easy buy according to him. SkillUp has an absolute monster of a review (38 mins) titled "Horizon Forbidden West is absolutely superb", so yeah, that bodes well. I'll be watching that later on.

Yeah its looking really good. And my PS5 just came this weekend... I enjoyed but never loved the first game, but a few of the things I didn't like about it look to be tidied up. If it wasn't for an existing backlog of games, and the small matter of Elden Ring coming out next week, I'd be all over this on release. But its definitely one to get down the line.
 
I'm surprised about the bugs, the original was so polished on release. Maybe the perils of making it cross gen. Ah well, I need to finish Bloodborne first anyway so hopefully it gets some good early patches. Can't wait.
 
Looking forward to this one, annoyingly my partner wants to play this with me and she’s away this weekend so I’m being forced to wait. :( :lol:
 
"There are other frustrations. While Forbidden West is not a difficult game to understand, it acts like it is. Aloy will narrate your every move, and I mean every move ("I should scan this." "I fell off and need to find my way back up"), robbing you of all agency to discover anything for yourself."

Not that I was ever going to buy it but am I the only one who dislikes this particular trend? Halo had it to an extent and it also sucked.

malreynolds-firefly.gif
 
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Scores seem to be in line with what i expected it would get, i think elden ring will be even higher scores and a few perfect 10's what a great time for games.
 
Is this spoiler free? I’ve tried hard to avoid the types of machines etc.
Best to just listen to the review or it's conclusion. Skill up usually withholds info in games that he feels need that (GoW or Outer Wilds) but if you want to savour the experience, just don't watch. He basically says that it's one of the games this generations will be defined by/remembered for.
 
Best to just listen to the review or it's conclusion. Skill up usually withholds info in games that he feels need that (GoW or Outer Wilds) but if you want to savour the experience, just don't watch. He basically says that it's one of the games this generations will be defined by/remembered for.
That’s brilliant, sounds like it’s going to be a great game.
 


That's a good review, doesn't really give anything away, doesn't show too much footage either really, shows enough but nothing that looks overly spoilerish.

Mentions the melee combat damage sucks so it's pretty pointless. Not arsed anyway, arrows and stuff was always the best in the first anyway.
 
"There are other frustrations. While Forbidden West is not a difficult game to understand, it acts like it is. Aloy will narrate your every move, and I mean every move ("I should scan this." "I fell off and need to find my way back up"), robbing you of all agency to discover anything for yourself."

Not that I was ever going to buy it but am I the only one who dislikes this particular trend? Halo had it to an extent and it also sucked.

malreynolds-firefly.gif

Yeah, you should definitely be able to turn that shit off. Or atleast allow how often she'd speak. Its a horrible mechanic, unless you're stood in the same place for 10 mins, I have no need to hear the character tell me what to do. It shouldn't be needed in this game either with the focus mechanic.
 
"There are other frustrations. While Forbidden West is not a difficult game to understand, it acts like it is. Aloy will narrate your every move, and I mean every move ("I should scan this." "I fell off and need to find my way back up"), robbing you of all agency to discover anything for yourself."

Not that I was ever going to buy it but am I the only one who dislikes this particular trend? Halo had it to an extent and it also sucked.

malreynolds-firefly.gif
Can't really say it's something I notice in games, so I wasn't aware it's a trend.
 
Frustrating to hear about the climbing. Every game should be copying BOTW in that regard. No limits no compromise.
 
Frustrating to hear about the climbing. Every game should be copying BOTW in that regard. No limits no compromise.

I like Valhalla (which I take it is like BOTW) but I imagine having limitations stops you from escaping battles too easily or getting a perfect vantage point where machines can't attack you but you can attack them.

Seems to be an awful way to do what they've done though.
 
Frustrating to hear about the climbing. Every game should be copying BOTW in that regard. No limits no compromise.
I don't agree with that at all, to be honest. Not every game benefits from that degree of freedom. In the earlier AC games for example, figuring out a climbing route by looking for handholds was sort of fun, while these days you hold a button and press forward, which I just find a mindless activity. It worked in BOTW's framework, I don't need it everywhere.
 
"There are other frustrations. While Forbidden West is not a difficult game to understand, it acts like it is. Aloy will narrate your every move, and I mean every move ("I should scan this." "I fell off and need to find my way back up"), robbing you of all agency to discover anything for yourself."

Not that I was ever going to buy it but am I the only one who dislikes this particular trend? Halo had it to an extent and it also sucked.

malreynolds-firefly.gif

Yep, this is horrible, even while playing God of War recently, the kid has to constantly tell you what you are supposed to do, I can't explore on my own without game holding your hand. Devs today are too scared of people getting stuck, amount of hand holding is horrible.

Hoping for PC mods to turn her gameplay narration off.
 
I don't agree with that at all, to be honest. Not every game benefits from that degree of freedom. In the earlier AC games for example, figuring out a climbing route by looking for handholds was sort of fun, while these days you hold a button and press forward, which I just find a mindless activity. It worked in BOTW's framework, I don't need it everywhere.

I agree that not all games need it, but this was one series where it was needed imo. It would make no sense for a greatsword wielding knight in armour to be flying around in Elden Ring. But Aloy was such a dynamic character, always leaping, rolling and zipping about, that the restrictions felt more like programming ones rather than a limit of world building or character development.
 
Yep, this is horrible, even while playing God of War recently, the kid has to constantly tell you what you are supposed to do, I can't explore on my own without game holding your hand. Devs today are too scared of people getting stuck, amount of hand holding is horrible.

Hoping for PC mods to turn her gameplay narration off.

If you're going to mention him at least refer to his proper title...

BOY!
 
Frustrating to hear about the climbing. Every game should be copying BOTW in that regard. No limits no compromise.

What is it about climbing, is it like first one that you are restricted to specific ledges etc? That is usual Playstation exclusives gameplay limitations, if they limit gameplay like that, they can focus more on presentation and cinematic feeling which is why it is always amazing compared.

If you're going to mention him at least refer to his proper title...

BOY!

Indeed, my bad. BOY can't keep his mouth shut. :D
 
I agree that not all games need it, but this was one series where it was needed imo. It would make no sense for a greatsword wielding knight in armour to be flying around in Elden Ring. But Aloy was such a dynamic character, always leaping, rolling and zipping about, that the restrictions felt more like programming ones rather than a limit of world building or character development.
In an ideal world everything that looks climable should be climable. It does look like the implementation here is a bit awkward, sort of a flawed middle ground between curated climbing parts and the freeform stuff of BOTW. That could've been better.

Can't wait for this!

Eurogamer are quite tough on this.

It's Malindy Hetfeld, I've never seen her write positive reviews unless a game is indie or quirky. She likes what she likes, I just don't see the point of giving a game like this to someone with her tastes.
 
Frustrating to hear about the climbing. Every game should be copying BOTW in that regard. No limits no compromise.

I don't get this. BOTW climbing always felt silly to me - you could just shimmy up any surface like Spiderman by button mashing, unless it was raining and then you could climb nothing.

Forbidden West looks like you have to use the focus to highlight climbable edges and holds which seems more realistic and immersive to me. Climbing in the first game was way too limited, but being able to climb everything is silly too. A balance somewhere between the two which this looks like feels like the right move for me.
 
Yep, this is horrible, even while playing God of War recently, the kid has to constantly tell you what you are supposed to do, I can't explore on my own without game holding your hand. Devs today are too scared of people getting stuck, amount of hand holding is horrible.

Hoping for PC mods to turn her gameplay narration off.
I agree that the amount of handle holding is too much in games but you also have to differentiate between games. For example, in a Naughty Dog game your companion noticing things that your character does adds to the sense of immersion. In the Witcher 3, Geralt's mumbling his thoughts to himself is part of your experience as a Witcher. Whereas in a game like Outer Wilds or Dark Souls or Subnautica, the player experience is central and they aren't dialogue based games and play on the intrigue factor. It's also about whether the dialogue is interest and fits the experience or just feels like a map marker.
 
I don't get this. BOTW climbing always felt silly to me - you could just shimmy up any surface like Spiderman by button mashing, unless it was raining and then you could climb nothing.

Forbidden West looks like you have to use the focus to highlight climbable edges and holds which seems more realistic and immersive to me. Climbing in the first game was way too limited, but being able to climb everything is silly too. A balance somewhere between the two which this looks like feels like the right move for me.

All games require a suspension of disbelief, what matters is that the internal logic of a game world is consistent. Which is why climbing an impossibly high mountain in BOTW to fight a centaur is fine, but Link pulling out an AK-47 to kill it wouldn't be. The problem Zero Dawn had was that its limits were the equivalent of invisible walls, something that the developer did to block you from going where you wanted. It wasn't that Ayol wasn't a climber by nature, or that climbing couldn't happen in her game world. The limit was that devs only put paths in certain places to stop you going too far off the main path til they want you to, even if it meant you couldn't climb up stuff it looked like you should be able to.

I agree that the new system has a lot of merit. The glider is a welcome addition - getting down off high things was a total pain in the last game. The new climbing mechanic could be good if its used freely and widely enough. Since HFW is more realistic than BOTW (if robot dinosaurs can be called realistic), some limitations to climbing could still be used and not make it feel like another invisible wall in action.
 
All games require a suspension of disbelief, what matters is that the internal logic of a game world is consistent. Which is why climbing an impossibly high mountain in BOTW to fight a centaur is fine, but Link pulling out an AK-47 to kill it wouldn't be. The problem Zero Dawn had was that its limits were the equivalent of invisible walls, something that the developer did to block you from going where you wanted. It wasn't that Ayol wasn't a climber by nature, or that climbing couldn't happen in her game world. The limit was that devs only put paths in certain places to stop you going too far off the main path til they want you to, even if it meant you couldn't climb up stuff it looked like you should be able to.

I agree that the new system has a lot of merit. The glider is a welcome addition - getting down off high things was a total pain in the last game. The new climbing mechanic could be good if its used freely and widely enough. Since HFW is more realistic than BOTW (if robot dinosaurs can be called realistic), some limitations to climbing could still be used and not make it feel like another invisible wall in action.
I had absolutely no problem with that. I mean, Alloy was nimble but the theme of the games traversal was more about being able able leap, climb and do crazy action hero stuff. More open world uncharted rather than a BOTW/Death Stranding/Immortal Phoenix Rising Mechanic. I actually thought the writing of thr original was what stopped it from being a true classic. The traversal didn't bother me at all. As long as the those action moments were cinematic and fluid with you jumping off cliffs and on/off machines smoothly, then it worked. For me at least.
 
First part was good but I didn't enjoy it as much as other people did. Was planning on picking this up on a sale but the reviews are making me rethink.
 
First part was good but I didn't enjoy it as much as other people did. Was planning on picking this up on a sale but the reviews are making me rethink.
It has pretty much identical review scores to the first and seems to just be a beefier, pimped up version of it rather than treading brand new ground, so I wouldn't go expecting a massive improvement but rather a continuation and building upon of what people loved (and didn't love) in the first.
 
"There are other frustrations. While Forbidden West is not a difficult game to understand, it acts like it is. Aloy will narrate your every move, and I mean every move ("I should scan this." "I fell off and need to find my way back up"), robbing you of all agency to discover anything for yourself."

Not that I was ever going to buy it but am I the only one who dislikes this particular trend? Halo had it to an extent and it also sucked.
This will annoy me and adds to my already healthy reticence to play this game simply due to the protagonist. I found her narration in the first one game ruiningly terrible. Probably the most irritated I've ever felt at the main character to a videogame and it really hampered the fun of playing the game, and as I suspect from looking at the trailers, it will stop, or at least delay me from buying the sequel. I've tried a few times with HZD but keep coming to the same conclusion. Not interested in the main character and not particularly bothered about robot dinosaurs.

I don't mind narration if done well though, done badly it can be a gamebreaker. There's great examples of good narration in videogames and personally, narration has been in some of my favourite ever games (and films) but it needs to be handled properly and not make the player either feel stupid or useless.
 
I had absolutely no problem with that. I mean, Alloy was nimble but the theme of the games traversal was more about being able able leap, climb and do crazy action hero stuff. More open world uncharted rather than a BOTW/Death Stranding/Immortal Phoenix Rising Mechanic. I actually thought the writing of thr original was what stopped it from being a true classic. The traversal didn't bother me at all. As long as the those action moments were cinematic and fluid with you jumping off cliffs and on/off machines smoothly, then it worked. For me at least.

I think the fact they've changed it for the new game is a recognition that this was a fairly common complaint. It also didnt help that it got released in the same week as BOTW, it couldn't help but be compared to it. But it was no sort of deal breaker for me, just a way in which a competitor was better.
 
Apologies if this sounds dumb and I'm missing something obvious but will most PS5 users who buy physical copies plump for the PS4 version with the free PS5 upgrade in order to save 15 pounds? It's strange to me that they're not following Elden Ring's example of having an equal price between the console generations. I think developers are going to be glad when the PS4 era is finally laid to rest and they can focus solely on the current gen as it seems a lot of compromises are being made.

At any rate, I plan to get this, beat it within a week and then get Elden Ring. :D