High-profile killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO in New York

JPRouve said:
You can comment on whatever you want, just don't act as if you were the target of anything.

And your last point is bit silly, we are not talking about a random person, we are talking about one of the leader of the system, one of the engineers, one of the people that literally bribe and lobby for mesures that add money in his pockets at the expense of the lives of thousands of people every year. It's genuinely strange how some of you try to mitigate the role of one of the actual decision maker.

And to be clear, yes any murder is wrong, it shouldn't be the norm and it shouldn't go unpunished but some murders have an understandable context. If you leverage people lives in order to make money, you put yourself in an extremely dangerous position.
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I don’t know how this very obvious point has been brushed over. If you deign yourself an arbiter of life and death as well as great pain and potential financial ruin for those who are most vulnerable and in the most desperate of need, you are - and should be - living on a knife edge.

You’d think security details will take on a new lease of life for such folk from here on in.
 
Are insurance companies hated more than bankers?
 
IMG-7220.jpg


Here is one example from US healthcare, a one-month supply of a particular medication. The top price is without insurance. And this medication isn’t even outrageously expensive compared to some others.
 
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JPRouve said:
And your last point is bit silly, we are not talking about a random person, we are talking about one of the leader of the system, one of the engineers, one of the people that literally bribe and lobby for mesures that add money in his pockets at the expense of the lives of thousands of people every year. It's genuinely strange how some of you try to mitigate the role of one of the actual decision maker.

And to be clear, yes any murder is wrong, it shouldn't be the norm and it shouldn't go unpunished but some murders have an understandable context. If you leverage people lives in order to make money, you put yourself in an extremely dangerous position.
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Fortitude said:
I don’t know how this very obvious point has been brushed over. If you deign yourself an arbiter of life and death as well as great pain and potential financial ruin for those who are most vulnerable and in the most desperate of need, you are - and should be - living on a knife edge.

You’d think security details will take on a new lease of life for such folk from here on in.
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And who gets to decide who those people are and aren't? What about private bankers, people deciding on student debt or mortgages, tax lawyers, and probably a dozen other professions? Does it make it "understandable" when they get killed as well just because some (or even most) people hold the opinion that what they're doing is unethical?

I'd rather someone tackles the actual system or goes through legal means when trying to change something, rather than killing a random cog in the system which very likely won't amount to any substantial or long-standing change - but maybe that's just me. Both of your posts hold a very high level of "he had it coming" to me, which seems crazy imo.
 
Fortitude said:
I don’t know how this very obvious point has been brushed over. If you deign yourself an arbiter of life and death as well as great pain and potential financial ruin for those who are most vulnerable and in the most desperate of need, you are - and should be - living on a knife edge.

You’d think security details will take on a new lease of life for such folk from here on in.
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I guess many don't want to accept the idea that these companies and their executives are grim reapers, especially in the US where making lots of money is glorified regardless of how you do it.
 
RobinLFC said:
And who gets to decide who those people are and aren't? What about private bankers, people deciding on student debt or mortgages, tax lawyers, and probably a dozen other professions? Does it make it "understandable" when they get killed as well just because some (or even most) people hold the opinion that what they're doing is unethical?

I'd rather someone tackles the actual system or goes through legal means when trying to change something, rather than killing a random cog in the system which very likely won't amount to any substantial or long-standing change - but maybe that's just me. Both of your posts hold a very high level of "he had it coming" to me, which seems crazy imo.
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Surely we can understand why something bad happens and also believe that it's not a good thing? I understand why someone would end up trying to kill the leader of a company that preys on millions, I also think that it's not going to fix anything and that vigilantes are bad for society which is why I haven't glorified the killer even once.

Now if we are being serious for one second, the reason these people are immovable is corruption and good luck convincing politicians to do the right thing instead of taking millions.
 
JPRouve said:
Surely we can understand why something bad happens and also believe that it's not a good thing? I understand why someone would end up trying to kill the leader of a company that preys on millions, I also think that it's not going to fix anything and that vigilantes are bad for society which is why I haven't glorified the killer even once.

Now if we are being serious for one second, the reason these people are immovable is corruption and good luck convincing politicians to do the right thing instead of taking millions.
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Agree with all of that yeah, apart from the fact that I can understand it.
 
RobinLFC said:
Agree with all of that yeah, apart from the fact that I can understand it.
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Is it only in this case or you never understand someone doing something extreme? You don't think that extreme anger or hopelessness can push people over the hedge?
 
JPRouve said:
Is it only in this case or you never understand someone doing something extreme? You don't think that extreme anger or hopelessness can push people over the hedge?
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I can't really pathom you get actually to the point that you would willingly give up the entire life you have in front of you for one act, especially one which will be pointless in the grand scheme of things. Maybe just a lack of sympathy for a murderer in that specific instance.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
IMG-7220.jpg
Here is one example from US healthcare, a one-month supply of a particular medication. The top price is without insurance. And this medication isn’t even outrageously expensive compared to some others.
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Jesus. You could be on two or three medications and it would be your entire salary.

I know it's a bit 'how long is a piece of string', but does anyone have an idea what the average American would pay per month for insurance?
 
NicolaSacco said:
Jesus. You could be on two or three medications and it would be your entire salary.

I know it's a bit 'how long is a piece of string', but does anyone have an idea what the average American would pay per month for insurance?
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Its between $500-$700 monthly on average
 
FriedClams said:
Its between $500-$700 monthly on average
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It really depends on how you get your insurance, if you get it via your employer then they are usually paying a big chunk of it

I have Anthem Medical Bronze Plus family coverage which has a max deductible of $7500 and a co-pay, I do have a choice in which I pay a higher monthly premium with a lower deductible (we also have a choice between United healthcare, Cigna and Anthem, over the last decade + I've used all 3 of them and Cigna were by far the worst, UHC the most expensive, of the 3 Anthem has been the best so far

The cost per month is $830 of which I pay $193, the company covers the difference

It's been years since between us we haven't reached the maximum deductible so TBH they aren't making anything out of me and my family

I don't know how typical this is but for a largish company I suspect it's around par for the most part
 
NicolaSacco said:
Jesus. You could be on two or three medications and it would be your entire salary.

I know it's a bit 'how long is a piece of string', but does anyone have an idea what the average American would pay per month for insurance?
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Yes. Minimum wage in CA is $16/hr which works out to $2560 before taxes, or a net of $2320. So one medication like the above eats up half your income (at minimum wage). The Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, though, so if you need that medication in Georgia, for example, and your take home pay is $1,060, you are in deep shit.

Part of this is the way billing is done. I'm a member of a union with good (once was excellent) health benefits. I pay $10 per visit to a doctor (online or in person), and my doctor charges my insurance $680 per hour. Insurance "pays" $300, and the rest is dismissed as "provider discount". When I tore my ACL (playing footy), my out of pocket expenses were about $50, but the bill to the insurers was $24,000. This did not include my thrice weekly physical therapy sessions, which were billed at $400 per session, and it took 3 months of therapy. I paid the $120 co-pay in total, and the insurer was billed $14,400 for therapy. This included things like being charged $90 to "warm up" on a stationary bike for 5 minutes at the start of each session, and $100 for "ice therapy" which consisted of applying ice to my knee.

So it's kinda like buying a used car, where the price is imaginary and the amount that is actually paid is almost random. What I do know, is that if doctors were costing me $2,720 instead of $40 per month, I wouldn't go. People go without medical care, medication, ambulance rides, and delay surgeries because of this price jiggery-pokery. They keep those numbers astronomical and when a non-insured person uses those services, the total is debilitating.

tl;dr without insurance, people can't afford health care here, at all. I think premiums are around $800/month for basic coverage (and I mean basic) that doesn't include hospital stays, emergency transportation ($3,000 ambulance rides), childbirth, mental health therapy, and so on.
 
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RobinLFC said:
I can't really pathom you get actually to the point that you would willingly give up the entire life you have in front of you for one act, especially one which will be pointless in the grand scheme of things. Maybe just a lack of sympathy for a murderer in that specific instance.
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I’ll hazard a guess you haven’t really dialled into the horrendous stories people who have been denied have been sharing across social media? And they are just the few amongst 10’s of thousands going through or have gone through it. It may be all well and good to endure yourself, but if you have a partner, child, parent or anyone you hold dear deteriorating or literally enduring a horrid end of life cycle, all bets can well be off for those who feel they have nothing in this world left to live for or a pit of rage and vengeance towards those who could’ve helped - or prevented entirely - the intense and prolonged suffering they have witnessed. Is there anything else that you can be certain will break a person than watching whom they hold dear become a shadow of themselves?

A scroll through Thompson's LinkedIn history reveals that many were angry about denied claims.

One woman responded to a post the executive had made boasting of his firm's work on making drugs more affordable.

"I have stage 4 metastatic lung cancer," she wrote. "We've just left [UnitedHealthcare] because of all the denials for my meds. Every month there is a different reason for the denial."

Thompson's wife told US broadcaster NBC that he had received threatening messages before.

"There had been some threats," Paulette Thompson said. "Basically, I don't know, a lack of [medical] coverage? I don't know details."

"I just know that he said there were some people that had been threatening him."
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It’s rather spurious to bunch “bankers” and such with someone like this. I’d like to know where you think the comparative is, actually. Denying as many as you can essential care to further your profit margin is really despicable. Your moral code and ethics obviously play a hand on where you place such parasitic actions on the spectrum. Once you become a pariah, life really ought not be comfortable; being a net negative to mankind is not something to aspire to or be lauded. It’s extremely rare for the masses to be almost unified in their disdain. The lack of sympathy and mourning is practically unheard of, given this was an unarmed, unsuspecting man, shot in the back. There’s a reason for that.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/09/brian-thompson-unitedhealthcare-assassination

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2eeeep0npo

There are so many takes on this, most where people sorta, kinda understand without condoning cold-blooded execution. There’s a reason for that.
 
Fortitude said:
I’ll hazard a guess you haven’t really dialled into the horrendous stories people who have been denied have been sharing across social media? And they are just the few amongst 10’s of thousands going through or have gone through it. It may be all well and good to endure yourself, but if you have a partner, child, parent or anyone you hold dear deteriorating or literally enduring a horrid end of life cycle, all bets can well be off for those who feel they have nothing in this world left to live for or a pit of rage and vengeance towards those who could’ve helped - or prevented entirely - the intense and prolonged suffering they have witnessed. Is there anything else that you can be certain will break a person than watching whom they hold dear become a shadow of themselves?



It’s rather spurious to bunch “bankers” and such with someone like this. I’d like to know where you think the comparative is, actually. Denying as many as you can essential care to further your profit margin is really despicable. Your moral code and ethics obviously play a hand on where you place such parasitic actions on the spectrum. Once you become a pariah, life really ought not be comfortable; being a net negative to mankind is not something to aspire to or be lauded. It’s extremely rare for the masses to be almost unified in their disdain. The lack of sympathy and mourning is practically unheard of, given this was an unarmed, unsuspecting man, shot in the back. There’s a reason for that.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/09/brian-thompson-unitedhealthcare-assassination

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2eeeep0npo

There are so many takes on this, most where people sorta, kinda understand without condoning cold-blooded execution. There’s a reason for that.
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I do have an argument to put them together, it's not rare for insurances to be part of a larger financial consortium and investment banking like to invest in healthcare providers and insurers.
 
JPRouve said:
I guess many don't want to accept the idea that these companies and their executives are grim reapers, especially in the US where making lots of money is glorified regardless of how you do it.
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Or want it to be brushed over. Perhaps cognitive dissonance.
 
JPRouve said:
I do have an argument to put them together, it's not rare for insurances to be part of a larger financial consortium and investment banking like to invest in healthcare providers and insurers.
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Sure you can knit them together, but they aren’t hands on. I think there’s a distinction; these companies are essentially the executioner, those in banks can essentially bury their heads in the sand to a degree. Not that it’s right, but it’s a different thread, I think.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Yes. Minimum wage in CA is $16/hr which works out to $2560 before taxes, or a net of $2320. So one medication like the above eats up half your income (at minimum wage). The Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, though, so if you need that medication in Georgia, for example, and your take home pay is $1,060, you are in deep shit.

Part of this is the way billing is done. I'm a member of a union with good (once was excellent) health benefits. I pay $10 per visit to a doctor (online or in person), and my doctor charges my insurance $680 per hour. Insurance "pays" $300, and the rest is dismissed as "provider discount". When I tore my ACL (playing footy), my out of pocket expenses were about $50, but the bill to the insurers was $24,000. This did not include my thrice weekly physical therapy sessions, which were billed at $400 per session, and it took 3 months of therapy. I paid the $120 co-pay in total, and the insurer was billed $14,400 for therapy. This included things like being charged $90 to "warm up" on a stationary bike for 5 minutes at the start of each session, and $100 for "ice therapy" which consisted of applying ice to my knee.

So it's kinda like buying a used car, where the price is imaginary and the amount that is actually paid is almost random. What I do know, is that if doctors were costing me $2,720 instead of $40 per month, I wouldn't go. People go without medical care, medication, ambulance rides, and delay surgeries because of this price jiggery-pokery. They keep those numbers astronomical and when a non-insured person uses those services, the total is debilitating.

tl;dr without insurance, people can't afford health care here, at all. I think premiums are around $800/month for basic coverage (and I mean basic) that doesn't include hospital stays, emergency transportation ($3,000 ambulance rides), childbirth, mental health therapy, and so on.
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Holy shit that is fecked up.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Yes. Minimum wage in CA is $16/hr which works out to $2560 before taxes, or a net of $2320. So one medication like the above eats up half your income (at minimum wage). The Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, though, so if you need that medication in Georgia, for example, and your take home pay is $1,060, you are in deep shit.

Part of this is the way billing is done. I'm a member of a union with good (once was excellent) health benefits. I pay $10 per visit to a doctor (online or in person), and my doctor charges my insurance $680 per hour. Insurance "pays" $300, and the rest is dismissed as "provider discount". When I tore my ACL (playing footy), my out of pocket expenses were about $50, but the bill to the insurers was $24,000. This did not include my thrice weekly physical therapy sessions, which were billed at $400 per session, and it took 3 months of therapy. I paid the $120 co-pay in total, and the insurer was billed $14,400 for therapy. This included things like being charged $90 to "warm up" on a stationary bike for 5 minutes at the start of each session, and $100 for "ice therapy" which consisted of applying ice to my knee.

So it's kinda like buying a used car, where the price is imaginary and the amount that is actually paid is almost random. What I do know, is that if doctors were costing me $2,720 instead of $40 per month, I wouldn't go. People go without medical care, medication, ambulance rides, and delay surgeries because of this price jiggery-pokery. They keep those numbers astronomical and when a non-insured person uses those services, the total is debilitating.

tl;dr without insurance, people can't afford health care here, at all. I think premiums are around $800/month for basic coverage (and I mean basic) that doesn't include hospital stays, emergency transportation ($3,000 ambulance rides), childbirth, mental health therapy, and so on.
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Thanks for such a detailed reply mate.

That’s absolutely shocking. I can understand that the bike involves the healthcare provider buying the equipment first, although the price is still an absolute pisstake. But the ice?! Unbelievable.

What happens if you’re eg a pedestrian hit by a car and need emergency surgery or an ITU stay, but you didn’t happen to have your wallet/ID on you? Surely they would have to treat you first if it was time critical?

It sounds horrific by the way; the NHS is far from perfect but it’s a pretty damn good safety net.

I’m not struggling for money (nor am I rich), but I’d be the same as you- no way I’m paying 2 grand unless I really have to. God, there must be millions of Americans walking round with absolutely fcuked knees or shoulders, that negatively affect their lives every day, but who simply can’t justify the cost to themselves.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Yes. Minimum wage in CA is $16/hr which works out to $2560 before taxes, or a net of $2320. So one medication like the above eats up half your income (at minimum wage). The Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, though, so if you need that medication in Georgia, for example, and your take home pay is $1,060, you are in deep shit.

Part of this is the way billing is done. I'm a member of a union with good (once was excellent) health benefits. I pay $10 per visit to a doctor (online or in person), and my doctor charges my insurance $680 per hour. Insurance "pays" $300, and the rest is dismissed as "provider discount". When I tore my ACL (playing footy), my out of pocket expenses were about $50, but the bill to the insurers was $24,000. This did not include my thrice weekly physical therapy sessions, which were billed at $400 per session, and it took 3 months of therapy. I paid the $120 co-pay in total, and the insurer was billed $14,400 for therapy. This included things like being charged $90 to "warm up" on a stationary bike for 5 minutes at the start of each session, and $100 for "ice therapy" which consisted of applying ice to my knee.

So it's kinda like buying a used car, where the price is imaginary and the amount that is actually paid is almost random. What I do know, is that if doctors were costing me $2,720 instead of $40 per month, I wouldn't go. People go without medical care, medication, ambulance rides, and delay surgeries because of this price jiggery-pokery. They keep those numbers astronomical and when a non-insured person uses those services, the total is debilitating.

tl;dr without insurance, people can't afford health care here, at all. I think premiums are around $800/month for basic coverage (and I mean basic) that doesn't include hospital stays, emergency transportation ($3,000 ambulance rides), childbirth, mental health therapy, and so on.
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That's just borderline dystopian. Poor people must literally shave years from their lives due to lack of coverage.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Yes. Minimum wage in CA is $16/hr which works out to $2560 before taxes, or a net of $2320. So one medication like the above eats up half your income (at minimum wage). The Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, though, so if you need that medication in Georgia, for example, and your take home pay is $1,060, you are in deep shit.

Part of this is the way billing is done. I'm a member of a union with good (once was excellent) health benefits. I pay $10 per visit to a doctor (online or in person), and my doctor charges my insurance $680 per hour. Insurance "pays" $300, and the rest is dismissed as "provider discount". When I tore my ACL (playing footy), my out of pocket expenses were about $50, but the bill to the insurers was $24,000. This did not include my thrice weekly physical therapy sessions, which were billed at $400 per session, and it took 3 months of therapy. I paid the $120 co-pay in total, and the insurer was billed $14,400 for therapy. This included things like being charged $90 to "warm up" on a stationary bike for 5 minutes at the start of each session, and $100 for "ice therapy" which consisted of applying ice to my knee.

So it's kinda like buying a used car, where the price is imaginary and the amount that is actually paid is almost random. What I do know, is that if doctors were costing me $2,720 instead of $40 per month, I wouldn't go. People go without medical care, medication, ambulance rides, and delay surgeries because of this price jiggery-pokery. They keep those numbers astronomical and when a non-insured person uses those services, the total is debilitating.

tl;dr without insurance, people can't afford health care here, at all. I think premiums are around $800/month for basic coverage (and I mean basic) that doesn't include hospital stays, emergency transportation ($3,000 ambulance rides), childbirth, mental health therapy, and so on.
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Sometimes I genuinely wonder how America can function as a country with this kind of healthcare system setup. This sounds so dystopian.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Yes. Minimum wage in CA is $16/hr which works out to $2560 before taxes, or a net of $2320. So one medication like the above eats up half your income (at minimum wage). The Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, though, so if you need that medication in Georgia, for example, and your take home pay is $1,060, you are in deep shit.

Part of this is the way billing is done. I'm a member of a union with good (once was excellent) health benefits. I pay $10 per visit to a doctor (online or in person), and my doctor charges my insurance $680 per hour. Insurance "pays" $300, and the rest is dismissed as "provider discount". When I tore my ACL (playing footy), my out of pocket expenses were about $50, but the bill to the insurers was $24,000. This did not include my thrice weekly physical therapy sessions, which were billed at $400 per session, and it took 3 months of therapy. I paid the $120 co-pay in total, and the insurer was billed $14,400 for therapy. This included things like being charged $90 to "warm up" on a stationary bike for 5 minutes at the start of each session, and $100 for "ice therapy" which consisted of applying ice to my knee.

So it's kinda like buying a used car, where the price is imaginary and the amount that is actually paid is almost random. What I do know, is that if doctors were costing me $2,720 instead of $40 per month, I wouldn't go. People go without medical care, medication, ambulance rides, and delay surgeries because of this price jiggery-pokery. They keep those numbers astronomical and when a non-insured person uses those services, the total is debilitating.

tl;dr without insurance, people can't afford health care here, at all. I think premiums are around $800/month for basic coverage (and I mean basic) that doesn't include hospital stays, emergency transportation ($3,000 ambulance rides), childbirth, mental health therapy, and so on.
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There was a Louis Theroux episode many moons ago that covered this. In it, a person had been knocked over I think, and came to in the ambulance. Once able to register where they were, they asked to be let out the ambulance because they could not hope to cover the fees at the hospital. I had never seen anything like it, but it brought home the chasm in lived experience for those in America who don’t have healthcare insurance. Just insane.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Yes. Minimum wage in CA is $16/hr which works out to $2560 before taxes, or a net of $2320. So one medication like the above eats up half your income (at minimum wage). The Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, though, so if you need that medication in Georgia, for example, and your take home pay is $1,060, you are in deep shit.

Part of this is the way billing is done. I'm a member of a union with good (once was excellent) health benefits. I pay $10 per visit to a doctor (online or in person), and my doctor charges my insurance $680 per hour. Insurance "pays" $300, and the rest is dismissed as "provider discount". When I tore my ACL (playing footy), my out of pocket expenses were about $50, but the bill to the insurers was $24,000. This did not include my thrice weekly physical therapy sessions, which were billed at $400 per session, and it took 3 months of therapy. I paid the $120 co-pay in total, and the insurer was billed $14,400 for therapy. This included things like being charged $90 to "warm up" on a stationary bike for 5 minutes at the start of each session, and $100 for "ice therapy" which consisted of applying ice to my knee.

So it's kinda like buying a used car, where the price is imaginary and the amount that is actually paid is almost random. What I do know, is that if doctors were costing me $2,720 instead of $40 per month, I wouldn't go. People go without medical care, medication, ambulance rides, and delay surgeries because of this price jiggery-pokery. They keep those numbers astronomical and when a non-insured person uses those services, the total is debilitating.

tl;dr without insurance, people can't afford health care here, at all. I think premiums are around $800/month for basic coverage (and I mean basic) that doesn't include hospital stays, emergency transportation ($3,000 ambulance rides), childbirth, mental health therapy, and so on.
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I cannot stress how insane it is that anyone thought you needed thrice weekly physio sessions to rehab from a ACL operation at $400 a pop. Every time I read about a breakdown of costs from American healthcare it’s like someone is taking the piss.
 
JPRouve said:
I guess many don't want to accept the idea that these companies and their executives are grim reapers, especially in the US where making lots of money is glorified regardless of how you do it.
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That glorification is not shared by all of us! I can't speak for the red states or what drives their thoughts.
NicolaSacco said:
Thanks for such a detailed reply mate.

That’s absolutely shocking. I can understand that the bike involves the healthcare provider buying the equipment first, although the price is still an absolute pisstake. But the ice?! Unbelievable.

What happens if you’re eg a pedestrian hit by a car and need emergency surgery or an ITU stay, but you didn’t happen to have your wallet/ID on you? Surely they would have to treat you first if it was time critical?

It sounds horrific by the way; the NHS is far from perfect but it’s a pretty damn good safety net.

I’m not struggling for money (nor am I rich), but I’d be the same as you- no way I’m paying 2 grand unless I really have to. God, there must be millions of Americans walking round with absolutely fcuked knees or shoulders, that negatively affect their lives every day, but who simply can’t justify the cost to themselves.
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Absolutely. People delay treatment until it's too late.
The Purley King said:
Or suffer from issues caused by poor diet/lifestyle etc. what if you got diabetes or high blood pressure or something like that? Thousands a month?
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Well, that's part of the problem: very little is done proactively to foster a healthy lifestyle. Prevention is cheaper than a cure, but the American mindset is obviously wired wrong. There used to be a loophole/tunnel through which insurance companies could deny coverage for "pre-existing conditions". Bernie Sanders and others wanted to eliminate that completely, but it sounds like the Trumpanzees coming into office want to bring this back. Basically you can get insurance if you don't need it. People who live in the 10 states that did not participate in the ACA (Obamacare) have been finding out the hard way what happens when you have diabetes or high blood pressure and no insurance. Of course it mostly affects poor and nonwhite people (https://stateline.org/2024/07/19/in...d-medicaid-1-6m-cant-afford-health-insurance/). Expanding health care is a "gov't handout" and "socialism" apparently, so bad.

The states that don't participate are as you'd expect: Texas, Wyoming, Kansas, Wisconsin, Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida. The Republicans are so desperate to "own the libs" that they are literally allowing $1.6 million people to suffer and die.
VorZakone said:
Sometimes I genuinely wonder how America can function as a country with this kind of healthcare system setup. This sounds so dystopian.
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I'm sad to report we haven't functioned as a country since... (checks notes) never. From our founding we have been a rigged game where the wealthy have called the shots. The "old money" dynasties can be traced to those landed white aristocrats who were charter members of the colonies, and who expanded or created their fortunes via human misery (i.e., slavery). Although the two parties have realigned over the decades, the struggle has always been the same: rich white men vs. everyone else. People vote against their own self-interests all the time. Union workers just elected a president who has expressed admiration for people who break unions. People getting EV factories in their communities just voted for the guy who has vowed to end those EV subsidies and close those factories. Naturalized citizens just voted for the guy who has promised to round up and deport 11 million people just like them in a manner he gleefully described as "bloody".

It makes no sense.

The next 4 years will see us either turn into Mogadishu or these policies will create a tsunami of support for the social safety net. Stay tuned!
 
My spouse ran up medical charges of well over half a million dollars during the last 10 months of her life. This was several years ago. Medical providers in the US charge exorbitantly high prices. Her health insurance more or less covered the costs but you can see why insurance premiums are set so high in order to make the numbers work (and build in a nice little profit for Thompson et al).

Medical providers, drug companies and health insurance companies are all part of the problem because they are run to make money instead of providing a service. From my observations, health care in the US is excellent quality but poor value for money.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
That glorification is not shared by all of us! I can't speak for the red states or what drives their thoughts.
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It's not everyone but it's a large enough part of the american culture and part of the fabric of the American dream. But you are right, it doesn't apply to everyone and I definitely see and hear more and more people decry it.
 
Wing Attack Plan R said:
Yes. Minimum wage in CA is $16/hr which works out to $2560 before taxes, or a net of $2320. So one medication like the above eats up half your income (at minimum wage). The Federal minimum wage is $7.25/hr, though, so if you need that medication in Georgia, for example, and your take home pay is $1,060, you are in deep shit.

Part of this is the way billing is done. I'm a member of a union with good (once was excellent) health benefits. I pay $10 per visit to a doctor (online or in person), and my doctor charges my insurance $680 per hour. Insurance "pays" $300, and the rest is dismissed as "provider discount". When I tore my ACL (playing footy), my out of pocket expenses were about $50, but the bill to the insurers was $24,000. This did not include my thrice weekly physical therapy sessions, which were billed at $400 per session, and it took 3 months of therapy. I paid the $120 co-pay in total, and the insurer was billed $14,400 for therapy. This included things like being charged $90 to "warm up" on a stationary bike for 5 minutes at the start of each session, and $100 for "ice therapy" which consisted of applying ice to my knee.

So it's kinda like buying a used car, where the price is imaginary and the amount that is actually paid is almost random. What I do know, is that if doctors were costing me $2,720 instead of $40 per month, I wouldn't go. People go without medical care, medication, ambulance rides, and delay surgeries because of this price jiggery-pokery. They keep those numbers astronomical and when a non-insured person uses those services, the total is debilitating.

tl;dr without insurance, people can't afford health care here, at all. I think premiums are around $800/month for basic coverage (and I mean basic) that doesn't include hospital stays, emergency transportation ($3,000 ambulance rides), childbirth, mental health therapy, and so on.
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Absolutely insane and scary.
 
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