All he needs is a run in the team in a constant position
Herrera at Holding
- Thread starter Jacky Quacky
- Start date
You mean the Stoke side that are bottom and shit?
Would be an issue. He's best in a midfield 3 with a DM behind him.
Stoke haven't been physical for several seasons now.
City tore them apart with a midfield of Silva and De Bruyne, Fernandinho was the only physical one.
Leicester is probably a bigger battle physically these days.
Strength is largely irrelevant in a holding role if you've got Smalling and Bailly behind you.
He has been brilliant the last few games. Delighted for him.
One thing we know, build that midfield around herrera and pogba, these 2 are gold. In much easier games play them in a 2, in the tougher games play them in a 3
tougher games
carrick
herrera pogba
Easier games
herrera pogba
mata
Its practically simple really, Jose needed Pogba, and he also needs herrera. Jose must make sure these 2 are playing week in week out, pogba's power to counter balance the slick passing and energy of herrera is a perfect foil for our attacking 3
tougher games
carrick
herrera pogba
Easier games
herrera pogba
mata
Its practically simple really, Jose needed Pogba, and he also needs herrera. Jose must make sure these 2 are playing week in week out, pogba's power to counter balance the slick passing and energy of herrera is a perfect foil for our attacking 3
Physicality is overrated, imo. I prefer much more having players out there who are actually good with the ball at their feet. He ran the show, hopefully he's playing ween in, week out from now. Offers so much more than Fellaini.
Nothing new, to be honest - he's the best all-round midfielder at the club, and has been ever since we signed him.
For reference, this is towards the end of his debut season: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-is-the-most-complete-midfielder-in-the-league.404746/
This is from the start of that season when we'd just bought him: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-2014-15-performances.392782/page-69#post-16462649
His completeness and energy and ability to press, pass, move, maintain the tempo was always evident - it was only a matter of giving him a run of games in a fixed role, and guiding him a bit - because he can become too excited and erratic - which necessitates a calming touch. Yet both Van Gaal and Mourinho preferred others (initially, for the latter). One sticking point is his supposed lack of consistency, but it's hard to build consistency when you're dropped regularly (even after good games - a theme under Van Gaal, as far as Herrera was concerned, whereas others were plied with a seemingly endless rope). Hope Ander keeps his spot for good now, he'll only get better with regular minutes. The lad gets United, and is articulate and intense and genuinely likable - all added bonuses to his on-field ability. Still too excitable to start in a midfield duo with Pogba against organized midfields, though. A proper holder behind them will unleash 'em both.
For reference, this is towards the end of his debut season: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-is-the-most-complete-midfielder-in-the-league.404746/
This is from the start of that season when we'd just bought him: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-2014-15-performances.392782/page-69#post-16462649
His completeness and energy and ability to press, pass, move, maintain the tempo was always evident - it was only a matter of giving him a run of games in a fixed role, and guiding him a bit - because he can become too excited and erratic - which necessitates a calming touch. Yet both Van Gaal and Mourinho preferred others (initially, for the latter). One sticking point is his supposed lack of consistency, but it's hard to build consistency when you're dropped regularly (even after good games - a theme under Van Gaal, as far as Herrera was concerned, whereas others were plied with a seemingly endless rope). Hope Ander keeps his spot for good now, he'll only get better with regular minutes. The lad gets United, and is articulate and intense and genuinely likable - all added bonuses to his on-field ability. Still too excitable to start in a midfield duo with Pogba against organized midfields, though. A proper holder behind them will unleash 'em both.
not sure stoke are a physical side...... plus its not normally physical players who play as a number 10.
No i worry about him against teams who play quick passing in that area. For me it reminds me like when Kroos players there for Madrid or Germany, he can kind of do a job there, and he is great on the ball, but defensively when its called upon to really protect the back four can struggle.......
but lets see it doesn't seem like Mourinho is gonna play Blind or Carrick there, so maybe Herrera will surprise us, I hope so!
Agree. Although Mata looked so good today. Very difficult to justify not including him, Herrera or Pogba for me. Definitely need to rotate Carrick in though. Nice to have the problem really. With miki still to really come in (on the RW i guess) looks good.
There were still one or two opportunities for Leicester on the edge of our box today, one they really should have done better on just after their goal. I forget who was on the end of it, but they shot straight into DDG's arms which was a let off. Personally think, as well as Herrera has done, or Fellaini did previously, if you're going to play Pogba in a 2 just now you may need an out and out defensive mid in there with him.
Good post, agree with pretty much all of that.Nothing new, to be honest - he's the best all-round midfielder at the club, and has been ever since we signed him.
For reference, this is towards the end of his debut season: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-is-the-most-complete-midfielder-in-the-league.404746/
This is from the start of that season when we'd just bought him: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-2014-15-performances.392782/page-69#post-16462649
His completeness and energy and ability to press, pass, move, maintain the tempo was always evident - it was only a matter of giving him a run of games in a fixed role, and guiding him a bit - because he can become too excited and erratic - which necessitates a calming touch. Yet both Van Gaal and Mourinho preferred others (initially, for the latter). One sticking point is his supposed lack of consistency, but it's hard to build consistency when you're dropped regularly (even after good games - a theme under Van Gaal, as far as Herrera was concerned, whereas others were plied with a seemingly endless rope). Hope Ander keeps his spot for good now, he'll only get better with regular minutes. The lad gets United, and is articulate and intense and genuinely likable - all added bonuses to his on-field ability. Still too excitable to start in a midfield duo with Pogba against organized midfields, though. A proper holder behind them will unleash 'em both.
Fellaini and rooney for me I have said allot, they were the flagship that spearheaded the david moyes era, and for the david moyes legacy to truly die, these 2 must be gone going into Jose's second season at the club, and these 2 are white elephants that stand out like a lighthouse. We cannot have rooney out live Jose Mourinho at this club, really hope the club cashes in on this player and wipe out that brutal wages he has got.
Look at the difference between herrera and fellaini, fellaini's average distribution of the ball, his poor one touch football, his clumsey positional play always getting free kicks against us, and lack of energy, everything herrera does fellaini does not do. We look at Herrera he embodies the united spirit of old, his drive, his passion. If we have carrick anchor our midfield in the away games and the tougher games, imaging having herrera, pogba, mkh and rashford supporting zlaten in a 433, that for me would win us allot of away games, no one is poor on the ball and there is energy and intelligence in our play overrunning teams. We don't need fellaini when we have the height and power of bailly, pogba and zlaten, carrick also offers us allot of height advantage, so we aint short of height in this team, we need a mix up of classy guile and power, not power over technique which Jose was doing at the start of the season
What could be wrong with united? choosing fellaini over herrera, when we start doing that again, that is us not looking to progress has a footballing team, but sounding like an old school stock team trying to bully team. Less fellaini and rooney, more herrera and mata. because the latter offers us goals, the former reduces us to 9 men, and I do believe we have been playing with 10 to 9 men all season long until today started
He's great, I've always wanted him to start, but Pogba is both more complete than Herrera, and a better "all round" midfielder. That's no slight on Herrera at all, mind you.Nothing new, to be honest - he's the best all-round midfielder at the club, and has been ever since we signed him.
For reference, this is towards the end of his debut season: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-is-the-most-complete-midfielder-in-the-league.404746/
This is from the start of that season when we'd just bought him: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ander-herrera-2014-15-performances.392782/page-69#post-16462649
His completeness and energy and ability to press, pass, move, maintain the tempo was always evident - it was only a matter of giving him a run of games in a fixed role, and guiding him a bit - because he can become too excited and erratic - which necessitates a calming touch. Yet both Van Gaal and Mourinho preferred others (initially, for the latter). One sticking point is his supposed lack of consistency, but it's hard to build consistency when you're dropped regularly (even after good games - a theme under Van Gaal, as far as Herrera was concerned, whereas others were plied with a seemingly endless rope). Hope Ander keeps his spot for good now, he'll only get better with regular minutes. The lad gets United, and is articulate and intense and genuinely likable - all added bonuses to his on-field ability. Still too excitable to start in a midfield duo with Pogba against organized midfields, though. A proper holder behind them will unleash 'em both.
I do agree with the rest of your post though.
I think he can do a job there as the saying goes, but it's not where he's best, he's not got the range of passing for it and is at his best pressing higher up to win the ball, rather than having to be disciplined and hold IMO.
Needs and deserves a consistent run of games.
He is such a good player and is just so active in midfield.
He is such a good player and is just so active in midfield.
I think you are right. They were playing with a holding and a ball-winner so we could get away with playing a B2B and an almost No. 10 in Herrera. He did look very good when it came to playing the ball out but I don't know how good his positioning will be against e.g. Ozil.
Mostly fair comments about Herrera's pros and cons. However, those cons on Herrera when we play against better midfields isn't really a con against him per se. It's the system.
These 'good midfields' are usually 3-5 man (hybrid) formations. I don't care how good your 2 midfielders are, you're always at risk at being over run or getting exposed.
There's not a realistic duo combination in the world today that could overcome 'good midfields' without taking into other factors.
These 'good midfields' are usually 3-5 man (hybrid) formations. I don't care how good your 2 midfielders are, you're always at risk at being over run or getting exposed.
There's not a realistic duo combination in the world today that could overcome 'good midfields' without taking into other factors.
Herrera is really learning the role quickly
Herrera, Carrick/Morgan, Pogba away from home.
Herrera, Pogba, Mkhitaryan at home.
Herrera, Pogba, Mkhitaryan at home.
The role can change from match to match. They didn't have a No. 10 today. If he does well one time there is no guarantee he will do well the next.
He was everywhere and has very good ability on the ball.
Herrera Carrick/Schneiderlin Pogba would be very good midfield.
Herrera Carrick/Schneiderlin Pogba would be very good midfield.
Physicality is so overrated and always the problem in the prem.
A technically superior and smarter team will beat a physical side every time.
I would concur.
Just imagine a center-back partnership of Bailly and Blind with Herrera in holding against a team like Feyenoord…
Herrera didnt play as a holding mid that game, that was schneiderlin, and his lack of any creativity or on the ball ability was a big part of why we struggled to bring the ball out. Anyway, physicality was far from the reason we looked slow and unimaginative on the ball in that game.
Why everybody keeps insisting on leaving Mata out of their preferred starting eleven keeps surprising me. I'd take him as a #10 any day of the week.
It's harsh but it's the lesser of the evils.
Keeping Mata in the squad means being a lot lighter in the midfield/central areas. If we were a super organised/on the front foot/pressing team like how City/Barca/Bayern play and have dominatating wingers then it would be fine but we're far from that.
Basically we're saying for now, when playing against stronger teams/midfields, we'd prefer Pogba's physicality and creativity over Mata's finesse and creativity.
Look at City. Very little physicality yet have many ball players and are trumping the league.
Completely disagree, Keane + Scholes held their own against everyone. Kante plus a decent midfielder alongside him is also not going to be over run. If you have an energetic, positionally aware player alongside a player who can dictate play, then they're good enough to play against any midfield combination. Pogba and whoever we have in the squad can't compete with a decent midfield 3 I agree, but to write off all midfielders against a 3 is just wrong and have been proven so many many times.
Back on topic, Ander did very well today. Leicester were very poor & we owned the centre of the park.
They were playing 4-4-2 today. It's different to playing against 3 in midfield. I doubt Mourinho would play him there if it wasn't against this formation. You can see he was pushed out wide when Carrick came on. Maybe even before that he was outside with Lingard more central. That would make sense because Lingard has always been more competitive with a direct opponent. Look at the Liverpool EL game last season where they overran us. That was in part down to Mata playing at No. 10.
Slightly off topic but our holding midfielder needs to be the player that compliments Pogba best. We really need to be getting more out of Pogba than we have seen so far. Anders technical ability and energy worked with Pogba today, but against a team with more of a midfield presence I'm not so sure
Was great to see the Mata /Valencia /Anderson combination again. Those three really work well together
Is this a sly way to call Herrera fat?
Pogba and Herrera need to be mainstays. Mata in for home games, Carrick away to partner them.
I'm not convinced by his positioning and defensive instincts quite yet. There was a moment where he was tracking the fullback and was completely left for dead and that lead to a free shot inside the box, luckily it was hit straight at DDG.
I also remember the Feyenoord goal, where he was slower to pick up the runner. I don't think those can be taught, they either come with experience or instinct.
I also remember the Feyenoord goal, where he was slower to pick up the runner. I don't think those can be taught, they either come with experience or instinct.
For me Herrera definitely ISN'T a holding midfielder nor should he be playing in a midfield two with someone who's natural instinct is to bomb forward like Pogba.
Pogba and Herrera have seen the best form of their career as part of a three man midfield and with a deep lying playmaker who sits in front of the back four dictating play, in Pogba's case it was Pirlo and with Herrera it was Carrick.
I think you simply HAVE to play Carrick if only for the fact his calmness and willingness to sit helps out the defence a hell of a lot and with legs either side of him as we have in Herrera, Schneiderlin and Pogba then Carrick doesn't have to run much and can simply let his brain do his job with his positioning.
Pogba and Herrera have seen the best form of their career as part of a three man midfield and with a deep lying playmaker who sits in front of the back four dictating play, in Pogba's case it was Pirlo and with Herrera it was Carrick.
I think you simply HAVE to play Carrick if only for the fact his calmness and willingness to sit helps out the defence a hell of a lot and with legs either side of him as we have in Herrera, Schneiderlin and Pogba then Carrick doesn't have to run much and can simply let his brain do his job with his positioning.
Couldn't agree more.