Herrera at Holding

Let's keep in mind Mourinho swooped in for Matic in January when he had rotated his candidates for the holding role enough to see none were what he was looking for.
Shades of our situation, for Herrera, Fellaini, Pog, Morgan etc there was Luiz, Ramires, Mikel and Lampard who were selected in that position. If no-one can nail down that role, I wouldn't be surprised with a January transfer market foray.
 
Mani said:
Herrera can't be a proper holding MF player, it has to be either Schneiderlin/Carrick with Pogba & Herrera/Fellaini depends on whom we play.

------------------Carrick/Schneiderlin----------------
---------Herrera/Fellani-----------Pogba-------------

Either we need to drop Rooney or move him wide.
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Herrera's more effective in that role than Schneiderlin will ever be
 
CM10 said:
Herrera's more effective in that role than Schneiderlin will ever be
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He's much better in Box 2 Box role than at holding role,Schneiderlin passing is not that great but he's certainly excellent with his defensive duties plus the height advantage.
 
Mani said:
He's much better in Box 2 Box role than at holding role,Schneiderlin passing is not that great but he's certainly excellent with his defensive duties plus the height advantage.
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Schneiderlin looks lost when the onus is on him to sit and defend. The times where he was used in that position last season, opposition players bypassed him with ease and he looked really awkward.

Schneiderlin's at his best when there's somebody else anchoring and he's able to press and harry players further up the pitch. I'm not convinced Herrera is a long-term solution for the holding midfield role either but he generally looks far more comfortable when he's been asked to play there.
 
I'd like to see

Herrera
Schneiderlin - Pogba
Mkhitaryan - Zlatan - Martial​
 
Scholes, Modric and Pirlo all started out as #10s. Everybody was sure they would never have the positional sense to play as deep-lying playmakers in their twenties.

Herrera is known to be a student of the game. He lives and breathes football. If anyone can pick up the finer points of the role, it's him.
 
Dante said:
Scholes, Modric and Pirlo all started out as #10s. Everybody was sure they would never have the positional sense to play as deep-lying playmakers in their twenties.

Herrera is known to be a student of the game. He lives and breathes football. If anyone can pick up the finer points of the role, it's him.
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Thats kind of true, but they all were pass masters dictating the play from deep. Herrera lacks that, irrespective of the positional play or intelligence. He is already 27 and not close to them technically, dictating/controlling and passing range.
 
He played this position a few times under LvG and had an absolute nightmare in one of the games.

He's best as a support player in a 4-3-3.
 
izec said:
Thats kind of true, but they all were pass masters dictating the play from deep. Herrera lacks that, irrespective of the positional play or intelligence
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None of them played deep until well into their twenties.

I was going to add the name of Schweinsteiger too, but he transitioned to a deeper role much earlier in his career.

I think if you're a talented passer, you tend to get stereotyped as #10. But that kind of skill can be just as vital in front of the defence. Other than the Barca trio, all the best playmakers in recent years have started as offensive midfielders.
 
I was impressed with city and think emulating their formation wouldn't be a bad idea. Holding midfielder, 2 creative cms and 2 wingers.

--------Fernandinho-------
Sterling-silva-KDB-Nolito
-------Ineacho---------

-----------Herrera---------
Rashford-Mhiki-Pogba-Martial
-----------Zlatan----------
 
LuisNaniencia said:
I was impressed with city and think emulating their formation wouldn't be a bad idea. Holding midfielder, 2 creative cms and 2 wingers.

--------Fernandinho-------
Sterling-silva-KDB-Nolito
-------Ineacho---------

-----------Herrera---------
Rashford-Mhiki-Pogba-Martial
-----------Zlatan----------
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Agreed. Herrera isn't on Fernandinho's level from a defensive view point, but he would help us a lot in terms of control (and Pogba is better for the solidity of the team then silva/kdb are so it balances out). Gets Mkhitaryan in arguably his best position where we can make full use of his technique like Pep is using with De Bruyne and Silva. Mkhitaryan is probably the closest thing we have to either of those 2, in the same mould. 2 footed, great technique, agile, quick, and a very smart player. We get the pace and running in behind out wide on either side of a world class striker like they have with Aguero.

Obviously we'll have a different system of play, but I don't think that means we can't match them formation wise. Also if we want more control on the ball, we can put Mata in for Miki, and push Miki to the right for Rashford.
 
WhoDaGOAT said:
He played this position a few times under LvG and had an absolute nightmare in one of the games.

He's best as a support player in a 4-3-3.
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Also put in the closest thing to a Scholes-esque performance that we've seen at United (away to Chelsea in 2014) since Scholes himself. Herrera just didn't fit Van Gaal's style at all but he fits Mourinho really well I think and can see him being very important for us there this season.

Actually the way I remember it, is that he only really struggled when playing in a 4-2-3-1 for Van Gaal. When he played in any of the 3 in a 4-3-3, he was one of our better players.
 
Herrera is the most over rated player in our sqaud.

In the short time he's been with us, various threads have touted him as the perfect no 10, the amazing no 8 and now I see he apparently he's our salvation no 6.

Fact of the matter is Herrera is only a limited central midfielder. I think he is of the Arteta standard and probably not good enough for a Premier League top 4 club. He'd do well at the likes of Everton, Swansea or Liverpool and I think he should be sold in the summer.
 
It's been one good game. He is a good player, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Pirlo my ass.
 
bosnian_red said:
Agreed. Herrera isn't on Fernandinho's level from a defensive view point, but he would help us a lot in terms of control (and Pogba is better for the solidity of the team then silva/kdb are so it balances out). Gets Mkhitaryan in arguably his best position where we can make full use of his technique like Pep is using with De Bruyne and Silva. Mkhitaryan is probably the closest thing we have to either of those 2, in the same mould. 2 footed, great technique, agile, quick, and a very smart player. We get the pace and running in behind out wide on either side of a world class striker like they have with Aguero.

Obviously we'll have a different system of play, but I don't think that means we can't match them formation wise. Also if we want more control on the ball, we can put Mata in for Miki, and push Miki to the right for Rashford.
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Yeah Herrera is better on the ball than Fernandinho but not as good defensively. I would say Schneiderlin is the player most similar to Fernandinho despite people insisting he is a box to box. However he's had a fair few defensive brain farts playing DM for us which makes me favour Ander.
 
bosnian_red said:
Also put in the closest thing to a Scholes-esque performance that we've seen at United (away to Chelsea in 2014) since Scholes himself. Herrera just didn't fit Van Gaal's style at all but he fits Mourinho really well I think and can see him being very important for us there this season.

Actually the way I remember it, is that he only really struggled when playing in a 4-2-3-1 for Van Gaal. When he played in any of the 3 in a 4-3-3, he was one of our better players.
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I have no problem with Herrera playing as any of the two roles that aren't the deepest in a 4-3-3. His energy, ability to press and link up play with players like Mata are missed in a shackled role that requires discipline.

Since Scholes though? Did you forget about Carrick during 2011/212 and 2012/2013?
 
LuisNaniencia said:
Yeah Herrera is better on the ball than Fernandinho but not as good defensively. I would say Schneiderlin is the player most similar to Fernandinho despite people insisting he is a box to box. However he's had a fair few defensive brain farts playing DM for us which makes me favour Ander.
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Fernandinho is a box to box midfielder as well.
 
LuisNaniencia said:
To be honest I'm confused with the box to box definition. For me the defender who is deepest is holding or defensive midfielder.
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City's system is quite flexible, so it allows him freedom to do more than destroy. It's the deepest he's played so far at City though.
 
WhoDaGOAT said:
I have no problem with Herrera playing as any of the two roles that aren't the deepest in a 4-3-3. His energy, ability to press and link up play with players like Mata are missed in a shackled role that requires discipline.

Since Scholes though? Did you forget about Carrick during 2011/212 and 2012/2013?
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Scholes retired at the end of 2012/13 :p
 
LuisNaniencia said:
Yeah Herrera is better on the ball than Fernandinho but not as good defensively. I would say Schneiderlin is the player most similar to Fernandinho despite people insisting he is a box to box. However he's had a fair few defensive brain farts playing DM for us which makes me favour Ander.
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Yeah, problem with Schneiderlin for me has always been his mentality. Just doesn't seem like he can handle responsibility and never wants to take charge properly, always plays things simple or goes missing. You can't have that from your DM. With Herrera, he never really goes hiding, just has games where he is too rash, gets a bit sloppy and then tries to hard to make up for it and charges all over the pitch.
 
I know people are desperate to see him start but he's not a holding midfielder, the only natural holding player we have is Carrick, every other person can do a job there, but isn't a specialist, Herrera definitely should not play there. I think JM would be better off grooming Schneiderlin for that role, as apart from Carrick, he's the next "most defensive" of all our midfielders.
 
legball said:
I know people are desperate to see him start but he's not a holding midfielder, the only natural holding player we have is Carrick, every other person can do a job there, but isn't a specialist, Herrera definitely should not play there. I think JM would be better off grooming Schneiderlin for that role, as apart from Carrick, he's the next "most defensive" of all our midfielders.
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Comparing Carrick to Fernandinho for example, much better passer but nowhere near as good defensively. With Pogba and another AM I think we need a better defensive player in there than Carrick.
 
sammsky1 said:
Fact of the matter is Herrera is only a limited central midfielder.
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Fact of the matter is that's no fact. This post is like stuffing your fingers in your ears and going ''I can't hear you''. In reality, it's an opinion, and an unusually questionable one at that.
 
If we play two in midfield all we need is a box to box midfielder (Pogba) and a playmaker(Herrera).
But Jose likes some one who breaks up plays (Fellani) and a playmaker( Pogba).

I think against the better sides we need to play Carrick as a holding midfielder (Fellani out) and Pogba and Herrera in front of him.
 
legball said:
I know people are desperate to see him start but he's not a holding midfielder, the only natural holding player we have is Carrick, every other person can do a job there, but isn't a specialist, Herrera definitely should not play there. I think JM would be better off grooming Schneiderlin for that role, as apart from Carrick, he's the next "most defensive" of all our midfielders.
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I think people have to look at the on ball qualities the holding midfielders give us. You look at all the big teams, and their holding midfielders can help control games with their ability, so we can't just put some random clogger at the back who is great defensively but nothing special on the ball. Blind can possibly do it once we put Smalling in the back, but he seemed to lack the proper midfield awareness whenever he played there and just reads the game better in defence. Herrera over Schneiderlin for me because of those qualities on the ball. It's not really even a lack of ability from Schneiderlin, but it's the mental side that I don't think he's suited to it.
 
Is Carrick really 100% finished?

Pogba Herrera
Carrick​

Would be an ideal midfield. Should've signed Fabinho when you had the chance in all honesty.
 
Adebesi said:
I think he's our Vidal, and Herrera is our Pirlo.
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No way. Vidal is an all action midfielder that covers a lot of ground. He helps attack, distribute, defend, etc... Fellaini can't move like that. Herrera is more similar to Vidal. If you wanted someone like Pirlo, maybe Carrick would be that guy if I had to choose.
 
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