[donkeyfish]

Felipe Luis from Atletico. Truly poor man management from Mourinho's side indeed. Publicly criticising Lingard and Mikhi (he was still injured) for City game

I don't think this is true, the player he named after the City game was Eric Bailly. Who strangely enough no one talks about, perhaps because he showed a positive reaction in the next big game.

Besides that, he did not mention either Lingard or Mkhi by name. I think he said he could've subbed even more at half-time.

 

[Frank Grimes]

I have never seen such a long performance thread for someone who has not played a full game for us and perhaps a 20-minute cameo

It is very unusual circumstances though. We signed one of European footballs most creative players last season in the summer, for not an insignificant fee.
For him to be banished after one bad half in the derby and barely playing 30 minutes in the next 10 weeks is very odd.

 

[Pscholes18]

I find it odd that some United fans have such an obsession and belief in Mhiki when all we have seen so far in the a United shirt has been well below the standard we have come to expect at United.

Jose has seen him in training and the only realistic scenario is that he does not think he is as good as our other options. This whole #FreeMiki stuff is a joke, some fans seem to think that he will be the answer to everything and that Jose somehow is holding onto an ace in his hand. Quite simply might not be the case, from what I've seen it isn't.

If it's not going to work out I'd rather sort it in January and move on.

Muppet......remember a player named Vidic?

 

[Fridge chutney]

Some signings unfortunately take time. For various reasons (lack of fitness, poor form, training difficulties) Mhiki hasn't had a run of minutes. I think this will change. Success does not happen overnight and we all know that Mhiki takes a season to adapt.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Jose: “I told him ‘this was not the game for you’ because I don't think he needs 10 or 20 minutes from the bench. I said ‘I think you need a good game and you need to either start or, if not, to come for the second half’. He needs less pressure and better conditions for him to express his qualities.”

Telegraph:
Henrikh Mkhitaryan cannot take the pressure, reveals Jose Mourinho

 

[JustFootballFan]

I wont post the shit stirring article from Ducker, but these are Mou's quotes, if you read the article it will look like mou murdered him in press.


Every other word on the article is bullshit.

I wont post the shit stirring article from Ducker, but these are Mou's quotes, if you read the article it will look like mou murdered him in press.


Every other word on the article is bullshit.

I got a chuckle out of "he´ll be involved". From the rest of the quotes he says Mkhitaryan needs to play 90 minutes in a game, so why not say that he´ll start on Thursday. I smell more feckery coming.

 

[Red_toad]

Jose: “I told him ‘this was not the game for you’ because I don't think he needs 10 or 20 minutes from the bench. I said ‘I think you need a good game and you need to either start or, if not, to come for the second half’. He needs less pressure and better conditions for him to express his qualities.”

Telegraph:
Henrikh Mkhitaryan cannot take the pressure, reveals Jose Mourinho

Needs less pressure = cannot take pressure. Oh the twists of the media world.

 

[Rood]

Mourinho gave him a whole lot of praise, which was very well deserved imo, after he came on as a sub against Southampton. Then two weeks later he bombed in the game vs City and hasn't been seen since. I don't buy the talk that Mourinho doesn't rate him, there has clearly been some going ons behind the scenes otherwise he should have played more since all of our wingers except Mata has been pretty dire.
Also, if he doesn't rate him then why did he want to buy him in the first place?

Firstly we don't even know if Jose picked Mkhi himself, could have been lined up by LvG. Even if he did, he has a history of buying highly rated attackers and discarding them soon after - De Byrne, Schirrle, Cuadrado are all recent examples. I suppose it is not until he sees them week in week out that he is able to make a judgement about if they fit his style.

At the moment he has clearly decided that Mkhi can not be trusted - rumours are that he reacted very badly to the City fail and his mental toughness has been questioned. Interesting to compare Lingard who was also dire against City and subbed but featured regularly since.

Still I'm sure he will give Mkhi a chance to change his mind and then it's up to him to take that chance

 

[Fracture90]

I don't think this is true, the player he named after the City game was Eric Bailly. Who strangely enough no one talks about, perhaps because he showed a positive reaction in the next big game.

Besides that, he did not mention either Lingard or Mkhi by name. I think he said he could've subbed even more at half-time.

Can't look for article now but it was something like "how many big games did they play? 0! They lost way too many easy balls, Etc".

 

[JJ12]

Wow, you have no patience do you? how many minutes has he even played so far? Plenty of big players have moved to a new league and team and not clicked straight away but ended up playing well.

Ozil to Arsenal
Bale to Madrid
Suarez to Barcelona

Look at the above names, all didn't click straight away.

I think Pogba will be in that list pretty soon. He hasn't started great but it's a matter of time before he hits top stride.

 

[Dobbs]

Jose: “I told him ‘this was not the game for you’ because I don't think he needs 10 or 20 minutes from the bench. I said ‘I think you need a good game and you need to either start or, if not, to come for the second half’. He needs less pressure and better conditions for him to express his qualities.”

Telegraph:
Henrikh Mkhitaryan cannot take the pressure, reveals Jose Mourinho

I can understand that approach for Arsenal but where is this low pressure, perfect condition game going to come from?

With the position we're in every match is important and pressurised.

 

[SteveTheRed]

Thats my point. If he was playing and playing shit is one thing, but the other poster said he has been shit all based on 3 performances?



Suarez had like 2 goals in his first 15 or so games, In January 2015 there were strong calls for Enrique to be sacked as the team was under performing and their star summer buy was poor. But Messi went back to the wing position and let Suarez play central and the rest was history. As for Mikhi, I don't know why he isn't playing. No one apart from Jose and his coaching staff. My point was more about you writing him off without having seen enough of him.

We went through a lot to get him too - Raiola throwing chairs and overpaying (30m+ is a lot for a player with no resale value). And its not like he was purchased before Jose came in, he was done way after Jose was announced. Only Jose can tell us why we went through all of that and not even bother to give the guy a chance.

I agree I am being harsh on him, maybe more so because of the number of fans that have jumped to his defence and thrown the blame solely at Jose's door. My opinion from what both have said is that Mhiki is still finding it difficult to adapt and is really going to have to pull up his socks to make it at United. He needs to make a big impression in the next game he plays.

 

[Carlsen19]

I don't really see how this approach is going to be any less pressure for him. The way it's been handled means any minutes he gets he's going to be under enormous pressure to perform or risk being put back in the shoe cupboard for another month.

 

[TMDaines]

I've got no great record of managing people, but I think a sensible approach would be for the manager to start Mkhi and tell him he's going to be starting the next couple too, no matter what happens. Give him some freedom to go out and play and back him to deliver at the level that he has previously shown.

 

[Sparky10Legend]

Give him 4-500 minutes before Jan, then make a decision because any less than that cannot possibly be considered "a chance".

Considering the money we have spent we are woeful out wide with 2x10's spending minutes there and our two main options in the stands or stinking the place out.

At last though he has "some" hope.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Pleased to see Mkhi is being professional about his situation. He's too good not to get into this team, he just needs a good performance to impress Jose.

 

[Fracture90]

Feyenoord game is a must win for us if we wanna progress to the next round, so yeah...no pressure

 

[Camilo]

Pleased to see Mkhi is being professional about his situation. He's too good not to get into this team, he just needs a good performance to impress Jose.

I can only assume he was very unprofessional at one point, presumably after the City subbing. Maybe he's now getting himself back together, and that's great, but I can understand him not acting entirely professionally.. In the prime of you're career, Mourinho says he wants you, and then you move to a new country and a huge team with a top manager, and you're expected to be a different player.. Well, that's what I'm choosing to believe. Who knows. I'd like to see him play once though, just for fun.

 

[JJ12]

Mkhitaryan finding his feet coinciding with the midfield trio picking up form could be the boost we need. Could be a game changer.

Or he could be in the stands for another month - who knows.

 

[Mani]

I've got no great record of managing people, but I think a sensible approach would be for the manager to start Mkhi and tell him he's going to be starting the next couple too, no matter what happens. Give him some freedom to go out and play and back him to deliver at the level that he has previously shown.

This.
Give him more game time and let him express, after all this his first season.

 

[Chicharito_]

I personally think this approach is putting him under huge pressure in itself. He is basically saying to Henrikh you have to perform in this one match otherwise you're sitting in the stands for the next month. I hope even if he doesn't play well he can get some kind of run and consistency as every player deserves that chance to show what they can do - it's not like our front 3 have been so good there isn't a chance for him.

 

[Catt]

Hopefully he has a good game against Feyenoord and we can build from there.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I personally think this approach is putting him under huge pressure in itself. He is basically saying to Henrikh you have to perform in this one match otherwise you're sitting in the stands for the next month. I hope even if he doesn't play well he can get some kind of run and consistency as every player deserves that chance to show what they can do - it's not like our front 3 have been so good there isn't a chance for him.

While that's true, this isn't the little leagues. When you play for United or any big club across any sport in the world, you are under pressure. If you can't deal with that pressure then you don't really belong at the top.

I think there is more to it than just not being "prepared", he maybe does lack a bit of aggression which Jose clearly wants from all his players. I just hope luck falls his way and he can get kick started.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

If hypothetically Mkhitaryan becomes a United regular in the coming months, which position will he play?

I've stopped taking note of the formation we play and I haven't got a clue atm. But don't we play now more of a 4-3-3 without a #10? And I thought Miki was predominantly(sp?) a number 10

 

[Ibi Dreams]

If hypothetically Mkhitaryan becomes a United regular in the coming months, which position will he play?

I've stopped taking note of the formation we play and I haven't got a clue atm. But don't we play now more of a 4-3-3 without a #10? And I thought Miki was predominantly(sp?) a number 10

He can play on the left or the right too. On paper he should really be starting in those positions ahead of Rashford and Lingard, who both still get games in these positions.

 

[bosnian_red]

If hypothetically Mkhitaryan becomes a United regular in the coming months, which position will he play?

I've stopped taking note of the formation we play and I haven't got a clue atm. But don't we play now more of a 4-3-3 without a #10? And I thought Miki was predominantly(sp?) a number 10

He normally plays on either the right or left for armenia or Dortmund in the past, though he drifts in and roams around which is how Mourinho likes his wingers to play. Thats why he made sense on paper in a mourinho team so his lack of involvement is weird. Since hopefully Martial will get back in form, there is a spot on the right perfect for him, with Mata being in the midfield 3. In bigger games though one of miki/mata/martial drops out for carrick.

 

[Dec9003]

Given that Martial is having a difficult second season, could Mkhy look to get in on the left? I'm not sure how often he's played there to be honest.

 

[do.ob]

Given that Martial is having a difficult second season, could Mkhy look to get in on the left? I'm not sure how often he's played there to be honest.

He's played as a L-AM, C-AM, R-AM, (attacking) CM for Dortmund. Last season he mostly played as L-AM and R-AM nominally though in possession he was basically all over the pitch.

 

[Dec9003]

He's played as a L-AM, C-AM, R-AM, (attacking) CM for Dortmund. Last season he mostly played as L-AM and R-AM nominally though in possession he was basically all over the pitch.

Yeah I remember reading somewhere he's played all over basically.
I think it could be interesting seeing Mkhy, Ibra and Mata in a front free together, it's not very explosive but if we're controlling matches with three in midfield it could work well anyway, given they're three of our best players together up front.

 

[do.ob]

What people have to keep in mind though that a R/L-AM for Dortmund last season was a very different role from what I've seen in most United matches.
During a lot of matches the formation in possession was basically something like this:

http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=d20j

or later into the season something like this:
http://lineupbuilder.com/?sk=d20k

I'm not sure those roles occupied by Mkhtiaryan exist in Mourinho's current system. I'm not trying to say that he won't work under Mourinho, just that it's not as easy as saying "he worked on the left/right for Dortmund, so he'll be fine there for United too".

 

[PedroMendez]

Dunno why people are still acting as if we don’t know why Mkhitaryan struggles. It was communicated various times by multiple people (including himself and his former managers), that he puts himself under incredible pressure that prevents him from performing during matches.
Nobody who watched him play should have any doubts about his work-rate or ability. He is incredible hard-working for an attacking midfielder and his former managers never complained about a lack of application during training. The conditions in Dortmund are in many ways a lot more favorable, but he still struggled at times, because of his price-tag and his own expectations. All that was well known in advance and various Dortmund Fans mentioned that during the transfer saga.
Given our situation, there are no unimportant games anymore and he’ll be already under way too much pressure to prove himself once he gets a chance.

 

[Dave46]

Dunno why people are still acting as if we don’t know why Mkhitaryan struggles. It was communicated various times by multiple people (including himself and his former managers), that he puts himself under incredible pressure that prevents him from performing during matches.
Nobody who watched him play should have any doubts about his work-rate or ability. He is incredible hard-working for an attacking midfielder and his former managers never complained about a lack of application during training. The conditions in Dortmund are in many ways a lot more favorable, but he still struggled at times, because of his price-tag and his own expectations. All that was well known in advance and various Dortmund Fans mentioned that during the transfer saga.
Given our situation, there are no unimportant games anymore and he’ll be already under way too much pressure to prove himself once he gets a chance.

But to be fare, most of those were second guessing problems, placing a shot or playing risky pass vs safe one. But those were during the games he actually played. Now, if he had several starts and did poorly, you can make that argument. Arsenal, since when fecking Arsenal is a power house? And Miki played against them four times in CL.

 

[PedroMendez]

But to be fare, most of those were second guessing problems, placing a shot or playing risky pass vs safe one. But those were during the games he actually played. Now, if he had several starts and did poorly, you can make that argument. Arsenal, since when fecking Arsenal is a power house? And Miki played against them four times in CL.

My point is, that Mkhitaryan is „soft“ (I don’t like the term in this context, but I’ll use it anyway to make a point) in the sense that criticizing/benching him is not the best course of action to make him perform. He is already overthinking things on his own. He is not “soft” in the sense that he doesn’t care (the contrary seems to be true) or that he doesn’t put in effort. We saw this in Dortmund where he struggled at times despite not getting dropped, while getting incredible support from the manager and the team.

Many here still seem to hold the rather archaic idea, that shouting at someone long enough solves all problems. “Modern footballer are just spoilt, pampered and overpaid wimps, who need to get toughened up by drills and pressure.” Well. It is a pretty outdated idea. Nobody with the least bit leadership experience would (or should) think that this the best way to motivate people. Some people need external pressure but others don’t. I doubt that Micki is part of the former group.

The annoying thing is, that all this was well-known. Football teams are sadly horribly managed; it is almost unthinkable, that any non-sport business would overlook such an important aspect, when investing 30m.

Tl, dr: I don’t expect him to perform under the current circumstances and Mourinho isn’t the kind of guy who’ll change his own approach.

 

[kouroux]

If he is so fragile, why did we even buy him ? I mean the context of constant rebuilding Man Utd, you need players with cojones. He seems to be a pussy.

 

[Dave46]

.

If he is so fragile, why did we even buy him ? I mean the context of constant rebuilding Man Utd, you need players with cojones. He seems to be a pussy.

No, he is not.

 

[SATA]

I refused to believe that a bloke who has been playing professional football for the best of almost a decade seems so weak mentally. If he is, why did he make it as one in the first place when thousands have failed? He even captains his own national side

 

[do.ob]

If he is so fragile, why did we even buy him ? I mean the context of constant rebuilding Man Utd, you need players with cojones. He seems to be a pussy.

That's the question most Bundesliga followers were asking themselves when the transfer was made public, it's part of the reason why everyone at Dortmund, apparently including the leadership, was so suprised about it.

I refused to believe that a bloke who has been playing professional football for the best of almost a decade seems so weak mentally. If he is, why did he make it as one in the first place when thousands have failed? He even captains his own national side

Well, I think talent wise he's genuinely world class and top of that he seems to have a very professional and hard working attitude, so that probably helped him a great deal.

His first bigger club was Donezk, who are/were dominating a weak league with their Brazilian squad, not exactly hard to see a creative player like him having a good time there.
Then he moved to Dortmund, a club with extremely patient officials and fans, if they were as impatient/ruthless as Mourinho/United he would have been gone halfway through his second season at the latest.

 

[kouroux]

That's the question most Bundesliga followers were asking themselves when the transfer was made public, it's part of the reason why everyone at Dortmund, apparently including the leadership, was so suprised about it.




Well, I think talent wise he's genuinely world class and top of that he seems to have a very professional and hard working attitude, so that probably helped him a great deal.

His first bigger club was Donezk, who are/were dominating a weak league with their Brazilian squad, not exactly hard to see a creative player like him having a good time there.
Then he moved to Dortmund, a club with extremely patient officials and fans, if they were as impatient/ruthless as Mourinho/United he would have been gone halfway through his second season at the latest.

His quality isn't in doubt indeed. Being a success in this club is very difficult. Hopefully we'll be patient with him.

 

[Carlsen19]

I refused to believe that a bloke who has been playing professional football for the best of almost a decade seems so weak mentally. If he is, why did he make it as one in the first place when thousands have failed? He even captains his own national side

It's so fecking bizarre. For example, he's played against Arsenal numerous times before so why is he all of a sudden incapable of doing that with us? I don't get it

 

[CG1010]

I refused to believe that a bloke who has been playing professional football for the best of almost a decade seems so weak mentally. If he is, why did he make it as one in the first place when thousands have failed? He even captains his own national side

That's not really enough though. SAF used to say many times that the pressures of playing at United are unlike anything else. Regarding Mkhitaryan, we don't know and the best is to wait to see how it unfolds. We will know soon enough if Jose's treatment helped or not. And I am sure we will hear his side of the story at some point.