Have we signed anyone yet? | Yes, with stupid tax

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Borys said:
(I take it you're talking about previous seasons not a few games in pre-season)
We did and it was not working, the only effective setup was with McFred at the base + option with Pogba on the left. Playing 1 deep midfielder with roaming 8's has not been working for us mostly because Bruno is not suited to that at all, he's an attacker through and through.
If we do that I would expect Erikson chasing balls lost by Bruno.
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No I'm talking about the only sample we have of Ten Hag managing United, a manager who is actually capable of coaching a Pep type style midfield group that our previous managers were quite simply incapable of coaching. Ole was not a good coach. Its not relevant to look at what he managed to do with this group in terms of midfield suitability, because he didn't know how to implement it so of course itd look like a mess. Its not the case anymore.

We'll see how the season goes, but as of now, my bet is we'll see us rotate between a system with 2 roaming 8's with 2 of Bruno/Eriksen/Donny playing ahead of Fred, or a 4231 with 2 of Garner/Fred/McTominay or even Zidane Iqbal playing deeper behind Eriksen or Bruno.
 
bosnian_red said:
No I'm talking about the only sample we have of Ten Hag managing United, a manager who is actually capable of coaching a Pep type style midfield group that our previous managers were quite simply incapable of coaching. Ole was not a good coach. Its not relevant to look at what he managed to do with this group in terms of midfield suitability, because he didn't know how to implement it so of course itd look like a mess. Its not the case anymore.

We'll see how the season goes, but as of now, my bet is we'll see us rotate between a system with 2 roaming 8's with 2 of Bruno/Eriksen/Donny playing ahead of Fred, or a 4231 with 2 of Garner/Fred/McTominay or even Zidane Iqbal playing deeper behind Eriksen or Bruno.
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OK then I will not argue because I don't take preseason seriously at all.
I think it will be a huge mistake to play Bruno and Eriksen both as number 8s ahead of Fred because that's 2/3 players out of nominal position (Fred and Bruno), but indeed let's see how it goes in serious games.
 
Borys said:
OK then I will not argue because I don't take preseason seriously at all.
I think it will be a huge mistake to play Bruno and Eriksen both as number 8s ahead of Fred because that's 2/3 players out of nominal position (Fred and Bruno), but indeed let's see how it goes in serious games.
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Eh you can't ignore pre season when a new coach comes in and is trying to implement a system - he's not going to try things he is never going to use (repeatedly try it!). I agree generally, I am not sure if Bruno/Fred are entirely suited to it, but we'll see if Ten Hag can implement it. Bruno we haven't seen with a proper coach in his career until now, and he has the qualities to play as a roaming 8. Part of the reason why we've been tucking in our fullbacks I'm sure is to support Fred in the middle though. We'll see what we go with once the season starts, but we've seen quite a bit of Fred deep and 2 roaming 8's - that being 2 of Bruno/Eriksen/Donny.
 
I know it's FDJ we are after but if it didn't happen what about Dani Ceballos from Real Madrid. Did his spell at Arsenal work out. Always looked good when I did watch him. Towards the end of Real Madrid season he played and looked good.
 
Xaviboy said:
I know it's FDJ we are after but if it didn't happen what about Dani Ceballos from Real Madrid. Did his spell at Arsenal work out. Always looked good when I did watch him. Towards the end of Real Madrid season he played and looked good.
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Incredible. :lol::lol::lol:
 
bosnian_red said:
Eh you can't ignore pre season when a new coach comes in and is trying to implement a system - he's not going to try things he is never going to use (repeatedly try it!). I agree generally, I am not sure if Bruno/Fred are entirely suited to it, but we'll see if Ten Hag can implement it. Bruno we haven't seen with a proper coach in his career until now, and he has the qualities to play as a roaming 8. Part of the reason why we've been tucking in our fullbacks I'm sure is to support Fred in the middle though. We'll see what we go with once the season starts, but we've seen quite a bit of Fred deep and 2 roaming 8's - that being 2 of Bruno/Eriksen/Donny.
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I'm ignoring it because for sure this is not going to work out with Fred and Bruno. I've seen Fred in that role for us, it's ineffective because opposition let him have the ball because he's not going to hurt them anyway.
Might work with fdj passing and ability to dribble through midfield, but I'm still worried what happens when we don't have the ball so yeah, let's see how we go into new season.

Bruno in midfield is another story and I would be very very surprised if he can be moulded into more all-round midfielder as I see him as an attacker.
 
::sonny:: said:
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It's a concern, the biggest issue is that the club seem to have many individuals in executive positions with no experience in the roles they are assigned to.

Arnold / Murtough seem to be figuring it out as they go along and this is definitely reflective in how the window has materialised thus far. Ole came in with minimal managerial experience at a competitive level, now United have a competent manager and esteemed coach those above him seem to be the Solskjaer's in the hierarchy.

You almost can't make it up, until this day I'm astounded that the Glazers have amassed a fortune in whatever business they became established within, because it's the acumen of business that they seem to lack in all levels; strategical, operational, planning they are miles behind everything.

For all the criticism the ABU's get they are the most diligent behind the scenes. Recent example Cucurella somewhat overpriced by Brighton, they move on find and utilise their alternatives. Same thing happened with Neves, Fred and Maguire because they have a proper functioning infrastructure meanwhile it's going to take United almost two months to potentially sign one midfielder who is no way a guarantee to be a success with glaring holes in various other areas of the squad.
 
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Xaviboy said:
Dani Ceballos from Real Madrid. Did his spell at Arsenal work out. Always looked good when I did watch him. Towards the end of Real Madrid season he played and looked good.
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Dani's career stalled at Madrid because Zidane went with Modric/Kroos whenever he could. Valverde forced his way in because he is a superior tackler and very energetic all over the pitch while Dani plays better as a deeper left sided CM. He's decent at everything - passing/dribbling/tackling - without being outstanding at anything. At Arsenal he was above average but nothing special - had some injuries too.
Carlo praised him at the end of last season because he really stepped up in the last 5-10 games of the season, when we had to rest Kroos/Modric/Valverde. Before that he didn't even get a look in - but then Carlo is known to work with a small squad and not make many subs. He'd make a solid 4th choice CM (starting 10-15 games a season in a 50 game season) in any of Europe's top teams.
At Betis he started in the hole of a 4-2-3-1 but always dropped deeper to help out. I think he can work in a midfield 3 but not 2.
 
As a person who couldn't really invest much attention into de Jong "saga", I am very excited something is finally happening and seems like we're looking at another, more possible to get options.
This transfer window is shambles so far, but it can't get much worse tbh so I'm positive.
 
::sonny:: said:
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It doesn't tell the whole story to just look at the amount spent. We could spend £100+ million on Declan Rice tomorrow, propelling us up that table, so it's more about the how we're spending our money, rather than how much.

I say all that, but there's no denying that there were two crucial areas that we needed to invest in this Summer (in midfield and up front) and we just haven't done that. It's a window where we needed to go out and do something to improve our squad. I did fully expect us to be spending at least more than Spurs and Arsenal.
 
Three days before the season opener for United and we are (once again) the team with the most work needed in the transfer market. Same as it ever was.
 
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It's a massive indictment on everyone involved with transfers that we are going into the season with no new central midfielders. That includes ETH.
 
But if a shit show this, going into the season with so many question marks, having not really sold anyone yet, only signing Eriksen, Malacia and Martinez. No talk at all about alternatives to Frenkie and complete silence about alternatives for Antony. Ronaldo situation up in the air when everyone knows it would be best for all of he just left, any which way. Whatever is going on with the Sesko interest looks like it's in the starting phases, so that will run yet.

A few days before the season, having all these question marks still is just crazy really and how it can do anything other than really flatten the atmosphere ahead of the season.
 
bosnian_red said:
But if a shit show this, going into the season with so many question marks, having not really sold anyone yet, only signing Eriksen, Malacia and Martinez. No talk at all about alternatives to Frenkie and complete silence about alternatives for Antony. Ronaldo situation up in the air when everyone knows it would be best for all of he just left, any which way. Whatever is going on with the Sesko interest looks like it's in the starting phases, so that will run yet.

A few days before the season, having all these question marks still is just crazy really and how it can do anything other than really flatten the atmosphere ahead of the season.
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Yeah having so many issues up in the air only a few days before the season is unacceptable
 
Terrible transfer window so far. Anyone who is defending it needs to up their standards of the club.
 
bosnian_red said:
But if a shit show this, going into the season with so many question marks, having not really sold anyone yet, only signing Eriksen, Malacia and Martinez. No talk at all about alternatives to Frenkie and complete silence about alternatives for Antony. Ronaldo situation up in the air when everyone knows it would be best for all of he just left, any which way. Whatever is going on with the Sesko interest looks like it's in the starting phases, so that will run yet.

A few days before the season, having all these question marks still is just crazy really and how it can do anything other than really flatten the atmosphere ahead of the season.
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Pretty much. Have to hope the club has something up their sleeve, but it is not looking good at all. Managed to even kick out a lot of excitement about heading into the season with ten Hag which is some achievement.
 
As someone that's not thrilled with the dragging on of some of the deals this window, I also ask what are the alternatives for what people want? I think we can all agree at this point that spending for the hell of it is something Woodward used to do. I also think that graphic posted above is dumb considering it's not like we've strictly been bargain hunting, we're literally prepared to spend almost 80m on FDJ as well as another 50m for another attacker whether its Antony or Sesko. The money is there, and likewise the positions we are looking for are pretty crap for options on the market. There's not another midfielder with FDJ's profile (that's proven anyways), and if we instead went for a cheap/unknown option then people here would be losing their heads on how we are such a cheap club. Likewise, there were never any great options in the forward market besides Antony or a Raphina.

I guess my point is it's obviously annoying that as of now we haven't signed a DM or forward, but at the same time we've brought in 3 players that actually fit a philosophy and profile and each of those deals was taken care of with relative ease. So this summer for me doesn't feel like previous summers at all even if we haven't gotten our top guy yet.
 
At what point do we start writing the season off? We all know its going to happen.. Might as well start now.
 
If we sign FDJ, we will be around €120-130m net spending.

Every year, for the last decade at least, we never had a net spending higher than €150m.

Genuine question, why and how do you expect signing a striker, a right back and a right winger with such inflated prices and with our known budget constraint? Unless we should believe that Arnold said to a pub that the money is there..

We could not even sell Telles and Henderson who had some value and just sent them as straight loans. I keep reading that we are expecting to sell. Who exactly? I would bet the same would happen with Bissaka. There is no way to increase our balance anymore.

We are discussing about a rebuild and supposedly needing to sign so many players. This will be done over 3 summers, considering our budget constraints and only if we are lucky and our cheap/clever options like Malacia and Eriksen come good along with the need to have at least a 80% success in our other transfers. Even Liverpool who had a very high success rate with transfers over the last years, they had some flops even when they spent big with Keita & Chamberlain, it is only normal.

We need to be more ruthless when the options are there, even if this means that we will have a lower budget in the next years. To give an example. Let's assume we are already at €150m net spending and Rice is the main target for next year. But somehow he becomes available this summer. Shouldn't we go get him now? Of course we should if we are serious about our targets and what we want to do. I highly doubt we would though, we respect the budget limit over all these years too much. Finally, transfers are not enough; we definitely need to bring and support a couple of players from the academy. I do not see any other easier way.
 
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I refuse to believe success of this club depends on signing one guy who is being pushed out of Barca, as good as he was in the past I think we should be looking for a more "generic" solution since we're only at the beginning of the big rebuild.

I'd be happy with getting a midfielder in Neves type, Ronaldo leaving and adding one attacker. This still can be done, I'm positive. Obviously this could still turn out to be a disaster if we end up with current squad on Sept 1st but I'm an optimist by nature so here I am, excited for a new season.
 
Borys said:
I refuse to believe success of this club depends on signing one guy who is being pushed out of Barca, as good as he was in the past I think we should be looking for a more "generic" solution since we're only at the beginning of the big rebuild.

I'd be happy with getting a midfielder in Neves type, Ronaldo leaving and adding one attacker. This still can be done, I'm positive. Obviously this could still turn out to be a disaster if we end up with current squad on Sept 1st but I'm an optimist by nature so here I am, excited for a new season.
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Neves isn't that much better than the 2 we have.
 
Shaping up to be one of the worst transfer windows we've had. Especially when you factor in a) the players that have left (no matter their issues), b) the work other teams are doing who are already way ahead, and c) the way many of these current lot, who we now intend on RELYING on, performed over the last year or two.

We either never learn, or the true ambition of the guys at the top is nowhere near aligned with the supporters (and probably ETH's).
 
Absolutely dire window.

Cavani, Pogba, Matic, Mata, Lingard – all gone. Ronaldo pushing to leave as well. Antony is off the table. De Jong is less and less likely. After the worst season in recent memory, we are starting the new season with just 3 new signings, neither of which are nailed First XI, and two of which missed the preseason almost entirely. The deficiencies in the squad have not been even remotely addressed: no CF, no RW, no DM, no RB. 5 subs next year, congested schedule with World Cup in the middle, and our depth across the board is still non-existent. If even one of our forwards gets injured or is in shit form, we have only Elanga as a crutch. But I sure am glad we have 7 CBs! And if Eriksen isn’t playing for whatever reason - back to Bruno + McFred we go! Oh, but wait, we are going to “mold” a class midfield out of Fred, McTominay, and Garner, you see. Meanwhile, there goes any chance for Top 4 next season. I mean, we'd be lucky if we finish Top 6 at this rate. And everyone saw how hard it is to have quality players believe in the project without CL.

Even if we get a "Here we go!” right this minute it would be at least two weeks before the player can join the team proper. But we won't as the club doesn't seem close to any deal at all. We are playing Liverpool on the 22nd. And October is absolutely brutal. And don't even get me started on our outgoings. Though I suppose by the looks of it we will once again rely on the likes of Jones, AWB, Bailly, Martial, etc. Year after year. Appalling state of affairs.

As far as I'm concerned, Ten Hag is stuck rearranging chairs on the Titanic. Due in no small part to himself it would seem. The squad is objectively worse than last season. But we are “rebuilding”.
 
Telsim said:
Absolutely dire window.

Cavani, Pogba, Matic, Mata, Lingard – all gone. Ronaldo pushing to leave as well. Antony is off the table. De Jong is less and less likely. After the worst season in recent memory, we are starting the new season with just 3 new signings, neither of which are nailed First XI, and two of which missed the preseason almost entirely. The deficiencies in the squad have not been even remotely addressed: no CF, no RW, no DM, no RB. 5 subs next year, congested schedule with World Cup in the middle, and our depth across the board is still non-existent. If even one of our forwards gets injured or is in shit form, we have only Elanga as a crutch. But I sure am glad we have 7 CBs! And if Eriksen isn’t playing for whatever reason - back to Bruno + McFred we go! Oh, but wait, we are going to “mold” a class midfield out of Fred, McTominay, and Garner, you see. Meanwhile, there goes any chance for Top 4 next season. I mean, we'd be lucky if we finish Top 6 at this rate. And everyone saw how hard it is to have quality players believe in the project without CL.

Even if we get a "Here we go!” right this minute it would be at least two weeks before the player can join the team proper. But we won't as the club doesn't seem close to any deal at all. We are playing Liverpool on the 22nd. And October is absolutely brutal. And don't even get me started on our outgoings. Though I suppose by the looks of it we will once again rely on the likes of Jones, AWB, Bailly, Martial, etc. Year after year. Appalling state of affairs.

As far as I'm concerned, Ten Hag is stuck rearranging chairs on the Titanic. Due in no small part to himself it would seem. The squad is objectively worse than last season. But we are “rebuilding”.
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Well you're a ray of sunshine
 
if it doesnt go well against brighton, you can see the storm clouds opening up over old trafford, but then the glazers will react by getting a shiny new toy in. Hello Neymar. Goodbye ETH in mid october.
 
Some well known YouTubers are moaning that other clubs have spent more than United. Well, in the past, United have spent loads more than others but signed some right clunkers. This time with ten Hag it looks like he is going for quality and not what the media want him to sign. No has been looking for a pay day. A month to go yet, who knows, de Jong may even turn up at Carrington.
 
It’s safe to say now that this window to date has been a disaster for a club of our size and stature.
 
Thread title not aged well. The people who "moan" are really just the ones calling it how it is.

Awful summer. Season starting this weekend.

Don't know if the club are just arrogant enough to think ETH will magically turn water into wine or more likely is they never had any intention of properly building a new squad.

Hard to see how we'd be competing for top 4 let alone any trophies
 
Yes, just three signings isn’t really appropriate for a club of our stature in need of investment.
We’re now clearly paying a price for years of profligacy under the woeful stewardship of a couple of dreadful scouts and Woodward.
 
Looking at the Martial injury, I'm really glad we moved quickly to secure the CF we obviously needed to replace Cavani and Greenwood. Especially once it became clear that our other CF wanted to leave.

Imagine the state we'd have been in otherwise.
 
Say all you want about Rangnick but there's a reason he kept talking about the need for signing 2 new forwards.
 
I always find the quality over quantity argument here quite intriguing. You would've thought since we finished 6th last season and had our worst season in history it will be quite easy to find significant improvements on our team.

But I guess since we have an incredible team already it must be harder for us to find upgrades than say Man City/Liverpool/Spurs/Chelsea/Arsenal who have all spent more than us so far and also finished ahead of us last year....

Also with the Martial situation, I don't care how you spin it, the fact that we're now depending on a player that has been so vocal in leaving over the past 2 months to start our first game of the season is a disgrace. People wait until the summer and always say it's different now, the people running the club have changed.

Same old Shit....
 
Absolutely incredible to start the PL with WORSE options than last season. This is quickly becoming a disastrous window. Such a shame to finally have a competent manager and not equip him with a serviceable squad. CM and forward positions are a complete joke. No deals look close either. So much for the big shake up that was promised. Same clown show as ever before.
 
I m really satisfy with Martinez, Malacia and Eriksen + Garner back for free.

Most and still worry for United squad depth in central midfield area and RW.

But without Sancho available. And United get Sesko.

Then 2 CF with a free 10 in a 4312 formation will suit United really good too. Like this:


Eriksen - Fred - DVB + Bruno + Martial/Sesko - Rashford/Ronaldo/Sesko


Because behind Sancho as RW. United others RW options in Chong and Diallo. Not good enough to help United to get champion league spot. In others words not good enough for a regular starter. For a club chasing top 4 and champion league.
I will give Adam Diallo a bit more time. But Chong needs to goes out on loan. Build his confidence and determination.

I have seen the best RW out there. It is something with Chong confidence, guts and determination. Not 100 % on those mentality abilities. You can see the top self confidence RW. Compare to Chong and Diallo. Its more drive, guts, confidence , punch and determination.
Because without high self confidence and determination in everything you are doing on the pitch. You will fall behind. Playing for one of the biggest club in the world.
Beside top skill. You need top mentality and character = top self confidence.


Sum up United youngster is good. But for me not good enough. Include Hannibal, Zidane and Savage. If United are satify with the level of those youngster. Then i am worry for United squad depth. Special CM and RW.

I am rating United youngster at the current level. I have seen the level of previous cm player in premier league. Like Fabregas, Wilshere. At the age of around 18-22. And United RW youngster have a mountain to climb if they are to reach the level of RW like Mahrez, Robben.
Because playing for United. The top level in every position is demanding. To create a dominate, winning and lead to a champion team. Top talents around the world is wanted.


So All of Hannibal, Zidane and Savage can prove me wrong. But at the current level and what i have seen from the pre season games. United squad depth at this moment. Without De Jong. A bit worry for me. Sorry if they prove me wrong.
 
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