Have we signed anyone yet? | Yes, with stupid tax

[MrSingh2002]

He's just annoyed because ETH switched the home and away dugouts

Dickwad. Is that a racist comment?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Dickwad. Is that a racist comment?

Of course not, relax

 

[MrSingh2002]

Of course not, relax

Sausage.

 

[mitchmouse]

Day 4,370... are Messrs Arnold and Murtough still enjoying the Barcelona Hilton's breakfast buffet?

 

[GaryLifo]

I'm an optimist for this season in general because of Ten Hag and his coaching team, but I even I am struggling to get my head around us not properly fixing the CM position this summer. It was our weakest area for the last 8 seasons and at it's weakest ever last season. From that awful set of midfield options we've lost Pogba and Matic and not replaced any of them.

Pulling out my optimism card again, I just will not believe that we get to September 1st without at least 1 proper CM being signed. They cannot be that stupid can they?

 

[flappyjay]

I'm an optimist for this season in general because of Ten Hag and his coaching team, but I even I am struggling to get my head around us not properly fixing the CM position this summer. It was our weakest area for the last 8 seasons and at it's weakest ever last season. From that awful set of midfield options we've lost Pogba and Matic and not replaced any of them.

Pulling out my optimism card again, I just will not believe that we get to September 1st without at least 1 proper CM being signed. They cannot be that stupid can they?

We went 3 years without signing one despite it being an obvious weakness it wouldn't be surprising to go 4 years. The tabloids said we would prioritise midfield this window, that has turned out to be bs sadly.

 

[Superunknown]

Pulling out my optimism card again, I just will not believe that we get to September 1st without at least 1 proper CM being signed. They cannot be that stupid can they?

I'm fully prepared for another season on McTominay/Fred, or one of the youngsters coming in.

Will be massively surprised if we do bring someone in. The de Jong saga is stuck on a loop, and I can see him chickening out and sucking it up at Barcelona.

 

[Shark]

What have we actually done in this window? None of our signings may be guaranteed starters. We also let go of two CM's and it's looking like Fred and Mctominnay will be starting together for another season. I'd be very surprised if ETH isn't considering packing his bags already unless we somehow pull off two or three more within a month.

 

[romufc]

What have we actually done in this window? None of our signings may not be even guaranteed starters and we've let go of two CM's and it's looking like Fred and Mctominnay will be starting together for another season. I'd be very surprised if ETH isn't considering packing his bags already unless we somehow pull off two or three more within a month.

Quite an interesting take. Since when are we meant to guarantee players starting positions?

One could also argue that if they perform to their best, Malacia, Martinez and Eriksen all start.

Finally, quite funny with that midfield we expected Ole to challenge but ETH should give up and pack the bags.

 

[croadyman]

What have we actually done in this window? None of our signings may not be even guaranteed starters and we've let go of two CM's and it's looking like Fred and Mctominnay will be starting together for another season. I'd be very surprised if ETH isn't considering packing his bags already unless we somehow pull off two or three more within a month.

Wow can see you being Mr positive already

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Quite an interesting take. Since when are we meant to guarantee players starting positions?

One could also argue that if they perform to their best, Malacia, Martinez and Eriksen all start.

Finally, quite funny with that midfield we expected Ole to challenge but ETH should give up and pack the bags.

To be fair, Ole also had Pogba and Matic... and more options up front too.

Not that I personally expected him to challenge at all - but he definitely had more options this time last year.

 

[Shark]

Wow can see you being Mr positive already

The big positive is that we've now got a potential great at the helm. Surely though nobody can say with a straight face that he's being given every chance to succeed in this first season in charge. Even Klopp needed a big injection of quality along with him transforming how Liverpool play. Eriksen is probably the only signing that I can say improves the squad and looks the part but how often can he play.

 

[Borys]

Quite an interesting take. Since when are we meant to guarantee players starting positions?

One could also argue that if they perform to their best, Malacia, Martinez and Eriksen all start.

Finally, quite funny with that midfield we expected Ole to challenge but ETH should give up and pack the bags.

We could challenge for top 4 with McTominay - Fred in midfield, we've done that already, and last season was more due to attackers and defenders collapse (although midfield is to blame as well).

We could do it if they played every game for 90'. They won't.
And that's THE problem we have now, there's no other functional midfield.

People moan (me included) because "McFred" can be easily upgraded, so obviously it's a quick win to both get someone better and increase options in midfield - both things should be done this window as priority. And yet we're one injury away from playing Garner in midfield (van de Beek will need to rotate Scott/Tom anyway).
The panic in here is hardly surprising. And I feel for ETH because if it stays that way, his coaching skills will be difficult to leverage as he'll be firefighting all season.

 

[romufc]

To be fair, Ole also had Pogba and Matic... and more options up front too.

Not that I personally expected him to challenge at all - but he definitely had more options this time last year.

Ole had Pogba and Matic but Ten Hag has Eriksen to replace Pogba and a better defence in Lisandro and Malacia.

The window isn't shut either.

 

[romufc]

We could challenge for top 4 with McTominay - Fred in midfield, we've done that already, and last season was more due to attackers and defenders collapse (although midfield is to blame as well).

We could do it if they played every game for 90'. They won't.
And that's THE problem we have now, there's no other functional midfield.

People moan (me included) because "McFred" can be easily upgraded, so obviously it's a quick win to both get someone better and increase options in midfield - both things should be done this window as priority. And yet we're one injury away from playing Garner in midfield (van de Beek will need to rotate Scott/Tom anyway).
The panic in here is hardly surprising. And I feel for ETH because if it stays that way, his coaching skills will be difficult to leverage as he'll be firefighting all season.

I get all that but from all reports saying that it is ETH who is pushing for De Jong and not moving on to other targets.

So why should he pack his bags when he is pushing for a certain player and not accepting an alternative?

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Ole had Pogba and Matic but Ten Hag has Eriksen to replace Pogba and a better defence in Lisandro and Malacia.

The window isn't shut either.

Better defence but arguably a worse midfield (depends how you rank Pogba - but Matic was a good option for us and ETH doesn't have anything comparable) and a far worse attack with a sulky Ronaldo and without Greenwood, Lingard and Mata (though again depends how you rate the latter two - but Greenwood was a massive part of our attacking plans this time last year and we haven't replaced that at all).

Obviously yeah there's still time in the window - but if we're looking at a snapshot for the opening game, then yeah it's pretty disappointing the shape we're in. Hopefully things will change - I think we definitely will sign a CM, just might not be FDJ - but not sure if a forward will come in, which does worry me.

 

[Shark]

Quite an interesting take. Since when are we meant to guarantee players starting positions?

One could also argue that if they perform to their best, Malacia, Martinez and Eriksen all start.

Finally, quite funny with that midfield we expected Ole to challenge but ETH should give up and pack the bags.

Ole also had Pogba when he still kind of gave a shit and Matic who wasn't yet on his last legs. Also some of us never expected Ole to challenge no matter who he had.

 

[romufc]

Ole also had Pogba when he still kind of gave a shit and Matic who wasn't yet on his last legs. Also some of us never expected Ole to challenge no matter who he had.

"He shouldn't be sacked if he fails, however surely he should be be at least locking horns with them in terms of points tally with this squad? If we're miles off that's surely a sign that he's not up to delivering a title unless Klopp, Pep and Tuchel all collectively bugger off and are replaced with managers several levels below them. United shouldn't have to wait or hope for that we should have a manager that's up to the challenge regardless of his competition."

These were your quotes last season. Clearly locking horns with Klopp and Pep means challenging.

 

[Shark]

"He shouldn't be sacked if he fails, however surely he should be be at least locking horns with them in terms of points tally with this squad? If we're miles off that's surely a sign that he's not up to delivering a title unless Klopp, Pep and Tuchel all collectively bugger off and are replaced with managers several levels below them. United shouldn't have to wait or hope for that we should have a manager that's up to the challenge regardless of his competition."

These were your quotes last season. Clearly locking horns with Klopp and Pep means challenging.

If the best managers in the league were to collectively bugger off he could of perhaps challenged. Ideally when Bruno was pulling up all sorts of trees. That's not me having any faith in him actually doing so.

 

[romufc]

If the best managers in the league were to collectively bugger off he could have perhaps challenged. Ideally when Bruno was pulling up all sorts of trees. That's not me having any faith in him actually doing so.

United shouldn't have to wait or hope for that we should have a manager that's up to the challenge regardless of his competition

Yet that is what you said, so why now "collectively bugger" off.

 

[flappyjay]

I'd be very surprised if ETH isn't considering packing his bags already unless we somehow pull off two or three more within a month.

I agree with everything except this part. ETH has played a part in how this window has went. His priority target is not being held up by the Club, the clubs hands are tied on it. The fact that we haven't even tried to sign other cm's seems to mean that FDJ is the only cm target from ETH this summer.

 

[Superunknown]

I agree with everything except this part. ETH has played a part in how this window has went. His priority target is not being held up by the Club, the clubs hands are tied on it. The fact that we haven't even tried to sign other cm's seems to mean that FDJ is the only cm target from ETH this summer.

Something has gone wrong here, because de Jong isn't the only cm on the planet. There will no doubt be other options out there, cheaper options, younger options, players in different leagues, players who will get snapped up by other clubs either now or in the future.

If we don't get de Jong (tbh, this is looking the likeliest outcome), then this is on ETH and it's also on the scouts for not drawing up a list of other possibilities. It's utter bullshit that there is only one possible choice out there. That simply can't be the case. Somebody hasn't been doing their homework.

 

[flappyjay]

Something has gone wrong here, because de Jong isn't the only cm on the planet. There will no doubt be other options out there, cheaper options, younger options, players in different leagues, players who will get snapped up by other clubs either now or in the future.

If we don't get de Jong (tbh, this is looking the likeliest outcome), then this is on ETH and it's also on the scouts for not drawing up a list of other possibilities. It's utter bullshit that there is only one possible choice out there. That simply can't be the case. Somebody hasn't been doing their homework.

He vetoed the scouts for CB by choosing Martinez over Pau Torres so it won't surprise me that the scouts have a list of midfielders(some obvious target as always) that ETH has vetoed. I truly hate everyone working above the coach at Manchester United football club. Hate them with every fibre of my being.

 

[Borys]

I get all that but from all reports saying that it is ETH who is pushing for De Jong and not moving on to other targets.

So why should he pack his bags when he is pushing for a certain player and not accepting an alternative?

Ole had Pogba and Matic but Ten Hag has Eriksen to replace Pogba and a better defence in Lisandro and Malacia.

The window isn't shut either.

De Jong is a possible Matic replacement (as the deepest midfielder).

Pogba has not been replaced by Eriksen. Pogba started only 2/15 games as the most advanced of the 3 midfielders last season (Leicester and Tottenham). In the rest of the games he was either in midfield two, or on the left wing.
Erikson never plays in midfield two (I mean never, he always plays with two supporting midfielders whether that is Tottenham, Inter or Brentford). As things stand, if de Jong joins then van de Beek will need to replace Pogba minutes. Or McTominay.

Just to be clear there's a lot to do in one month if ETH wants to have enough to work on. Right now he clearly doesn't which is worrying.
Normally I would want us to challenge for title - then I would panic at this stage, considering upcoming fixtures in Aug/Sep. Now that I hope we can get top 4 I'm just worried.

 

[Shark]

I agree with everything except this part. ETH has played a part in how this window has went. His priority target is not being held up by the Club, the clubs hands are tied on it. The fact that we haven't even tried to sign other cm's seems to mean that FDJ is the only cm target from ETH this summer.

Wasn't aware of this to be honest. Although I can totally understand ETH not wanting to trust our scouts in potentially hindering the squad with more average backup options, there has been a lot of them over the past four tenures. I don't understand him not going in for at least one more CM while we wait on De Jong because we bloody well need to. Even if he does end up signing.

 

[roonaldo78]

I agree with everything except this part. ETH has played a part in how this window has went. His priority target is not being held up by the Club, the clubs hands are tied on it. The fact that we haven't even tried to sign other cm's seems to mean that FDJ is the only cm target from ETH this summer.

Completely agree with this, everything seems to indicate that it is either FDJ or go into the season with what we have for ETH. We cannot blame the club on this one if ETH does not want a backup plan. Therefore if ETH is happy to go into the season with McFred and the kids, then it is completely on him if it does not work out.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

"We still have one month left"- last stage of denial that we managed to screw another transfer window.

Generally from the same people who were assuring us "the window isn't even open yet" in June, as if you can't do any transfer activity outside the official window.

 

[Volksie316]

ETH has sadly bought into the “potential of the existing squad” bollox.

He will soon find out what a waste of space, most of the current group are, and it will be his own fault.

 

[Superunknown]

He vetoed the scouts for CB by choosing Martinez over Pau Torres so it won't surprise me that the scouts have a list of midfielders(some obvious target as always) that ETH has vetoed. I truly hate everyone working above the coach at Manchester United football club. Hate them with every fibre of my being.

He's completely right to have his say, and it's not like the scouts haven't let us down with poor choices over the last how many years anyway, so that part is fine. However, de Jong is in a really complicated situation with Barcelona with the deal to get him being the opposite of straightforward...and his pursuit has taken the entire window...and he still may not get him. It's just unwise not to have alternatives. It's also one of those situations where I think a club has to have its parts (scouts, manager, other folks) working collaboratively to get it done. At some point about halfway through this pursuit (perhaps sooner) other possibilities should have been explored. The whole situation feels very messy.

I'm amazed at just how hard United have found it to address the midfield. They just can't get this right. It's remarkable. I hope ETH can fix this.

 

[cyberman]

Generally from the same people who were assuring us "the window isn't even open yet" in June, as if you can't do any transfer activity outside the official window.

I don’t think our club will ever learn judging by how we have stalked de Jong this summer and the reaction from most of our fanbase. Where’s the flight trackers and all that, how do they have enthusiasm for this anymore? Who cares about chasing names anymore?
Say we do get top 4 after missing out on de Jong and an attacker, do you think United will learn from that? Of course not, Ten Hag will have gotten top 4 despite our moves this summer but the club will continue on thinking they’re doing the right thing. They’ll chase whoever the flavour of the month is next summer instead of actually analysing the season and setting ourselves up for another collapse in 18 months as we always have post SAF when everything catches up. All with the approval of transfer muppets.
I can’t get past placing myself back after the Palace defeat. We agreed we needed so many new players and an overhaul but none of that happens as we get lost in the transfer season and playing nothing friendlies. Surely our thoughts of how we move forward when the football was on overrides some weird optimism we have now?
Rant over.

 

[romufc]

De Jong is a possible Matic replacement (as the deepest midfielder).

Pogba has not been replaced by Eriksen. Pogba started only 2/15 games as the most advanced of the 3 midfielders last season (Leicester and Tottenham). In the rest of the games he was either in midfield two, or on the left wing.
Erikson never plays in midfield two (I mean never, he always plays with two supporting midfielders whether that is Tottenham, Inter or Brentford). As things stand, if de Jong joins then van de Beek will need to replace Pogba minutes. Or McTominay.

Just to be clear there's a lot to do in one month if ETH wants to have enough to work on. Right now he clearly doesn't which is worrying.
Normally I would want us to challenge for title - then I would panic at this stage, considering upcoming fixtures in Aug/Sep. Now that I hope we can get top 4 I'm just worried.

Matic only started 16 PL games last season, so De Jong would be an upgrade.

I think you are in for a very big surprise if you think Eriksen can only play most advanced of a 3. If you watched any of the last 2 games, you will know that Eriksen is playing in a much deeper role.

Out preffered formation is 4-2-3-1 and Eriksen will play alot of games in the 2.

 

[Borys]

Matic only started 16 PL games last season, so De Jong would be an upgrade.

I think you are in for a very big surprise if you think Eriksen can only play most advanced of a 3. If you watched any of the last 2 games, you will know that Eriksen is playing in a much deeper role.

Out preffered formation is 4-2-3-1 and Eriksen will play alot of games in the 2.

Agree De Jong will be an upgrade. Actually he will change the structure of our midfield, if he comes that is.

I will be very, very surprised if we play Eriksen in the 2 man midfield, one because like I said he never played there, two because it doesn't make sense to restrict him, and three because we did exactly the same mistake with Pogba.

I am also surprised you draw that conclusion based on 2 pre-season games where he played exactly that - as the most advanced of the 3 midfielders. It doesn't matter if he plays high or not, he is always supported by 2 other midfielders who play deep nominally.

 

[romufc]

Agree De Jong will be an upgrade. Actually he will change the structure of our midfield, if he comes that is.

I will be very, very surprised if we play Eriksen in the 2 man midfield, one because like I said he never played there, two because it doesn't make sense to restrict him, and three because we did exactly the same mistake with Pogba.

I am also surprised you draw that conclusion based on 2 pre-season games where he played exactly that - as the most advanced of the 3 midfielders. It doesn't matter if he plays high or not, he is always supported by 2 other midfielders who play deep nominally.

Ten Hag actually came out and said Donny's best position is running of the striker, so a 10. Rayo game it was Garner Eriksen and Donny.

Also, you do realise last season for Brentford he played CM in most games not AM, he has changed his game where he is more of a player who dictates from deep rather than play in the Bruno role.

 

[Borys]

Ten Hag actually came out and said Donny's best position is running of the striker, so a 10. Rayo game it was Garner Eriksen and Donny.

Also, you do realise last season for Brentford he played CM in most games not AM, he has changed his game where he is more of a player who dictates from deep rather than play in the Bruno role.

You're arguing Eriksen will play in midfield two despite all evidence suggesting otherwise. I checked the setups from his Totteham, Inter, and Brentford time, always in midfield three. He played in midfield three both games he played for us.

The bolded part - looks like LM of midfield 3, 10/10 when he starts. He might be dropping deep when we're on the ball, that's not the point. The point is he needs and always gets two supporting midfielders.
We didn't get Eriksen to replace Pogba, he will replace Bruno when he's off form (IMO will be our first choice AM quite soon actually).
So even if we get De Jong, we're -1 on midfielders. I guess that'll be van de Beek/Garner.

 

[bosnian_red]

De Jong is a possible Matic replacement (as the deepest midfielder).

Pogba has not been replaced by Eriksen. Pogba started only 2/15 games as the most advanced of the 3 midfielders last season (Leicester and Tottenham). In the rest of the games he was either in midfield two, or on the left wing.
Erikson never plays in midfield two (I mean never, he always plays with two supporting midfielders whether that is Tottenham, Inter or Brentford). As things stand, if de Jong joins then van de Beek will need to replace Pogba minutes. Or McTominay.

Just to be clear there's a lot to do in one month if ETH wants to have enough to work on. Right now he clearly doesn't which is worrying.
Normally I would want us to challenge for title - then I would panic at this stage, considering upcoming fixtures in Aug/Sep. Now that I hope we can get top 4 I'm just worried.

Think it's clear we've played both 433 and 4231 this summer. When Fred and Scott were there it was a 4231, when 2 of Donny/Eriksen/Bruno were there, it was a a 433 with both of them playing the same role but on the left half or right half of the pitch as a roaming 8's (and Fred or Garner sitting). Its not clear yet IMO what the main option will be if we don't sign Frenkie, but if we do, then my bet is Frenkie and Fred partner each other, and then we have Eriksen as a bit more advanced/rotating with Bruno and Bruno joining the front 3 rotation as well to give more depth.

 

[romufc]

You're arguing Eriksen will play in midfield two despite all evidence suggesting otherwise. I checked the setups from his Totteham, Inter, and Brentford time, always in midfield three. He played in midfield three both games he played for us.

The bolded part - looks like LM of midfield 3, 10/10 when he starts. He might be dropping deep when we're on the ball, that's not the point. The point is he needs and always gets two supporting midfielders.
We didn't get Eriksen to replace Pogba, he will replace Bruno when he's off form (IMO will be our first choice AM quite soon actually).
So even if we get De Jong, we're -1 on midfielders. I guess that'll be van de Beek/Garner.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/christian-eriksen/leistungsdaten/spieler/69633/plus/0?saison=2020
Inter - played primarily CM over AM and a few DM games

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/christian-eriksen/leistungsdaten/spieler/69633/plus/0?saison=2021
Brentford where he played CM not AM.

So if Bruno and Eriksen start, do you think Bruno will play deeper than Eriksen?

 

[bosnian_red]

I think if we sign Sesko and add a proper right winger to the group that can compete with Rashford and sancho, I'd be happy enough with the window (once we get rid of Bailly, Jones, tuanzebe, Telles, Williams, Ronaldo). Obviously it's not ideal, Frenkie is the dream still, but we'd have a normal squad with everyone on board together and everyone with clear roles that are logical to their status. Its a squad that shouldn't bring unhappiness like last year's did. We have a decent enough group of midfielders and a squad without glaring holes in it.

 

[Borys]

Think it's clear we've played both 433 and 4231 this summer. When Fred and Scott were there it was a 4231, when 2 of Donny/Eriksen/Bruno were there, it was a a 433 with both of them playing the same role but on the left half or right half of the pitch as a roaming 8's (and Fred or Garner sitting). Its not clear yet IMO what the main option will be if we don't sign Frenkie, but if we do, then my bet is Frenkie and Fred partner each other, and then we have Eriksen as a bit more advanced/rotating with Bruno and Bruno joining the front 3 rotation as well to give more depth.

It is clear indeed.

First choice:
De Jong - Fred
Eriksen/Bruno

In that scenario I expect de Jong to stay back and Fred will be joining from the left and Erikson from the right. I think that's what he did for Tottenhan and worked well.

Second choice:
McTominay - Fred/vdB
Bruno/Eriksen

This is what I hope for and doesn't look too bad. Getting this deep player is key to release Fred, what will help us dramatically.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/christian-eriksen/leistungsdaten/spieler/69633/plus/0?saison=2020
Inter - played primarily CM over AM and a few DM games

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/christian-eriksen/leistungsdaten/spieler/69633/plus/0?saison=2021
Brentford where he played CM not AM.

So if Bruno and Eriksen start, do you think Bruno will play deeper than Eriksen?

Mate take a look at how lineup is presented on fbref, he might be called a CM or DM but he always starts with two supporting midfielders what is the only point I'm arguing (he never plays in midfield two).
Bruno and Eriksen should not start together, we will get run over in midfield. Eriksen might be useful there, but Bruno is as useful in midfield as any other striker. It's just not his game.

I don't see a reason why would you start both of them at the same time anyway. Ideally you can have one of them available to come from the bench.

If we have a strikers crisis, we might consider playing midfield 3 behind Bruno as false 9. That's basically what we did on a few occasions with Pogba ahead of two midfielders. That's a good option to have. Just keep Bruno away from midfield.

 

[bosnian_red]

It is clear indeed.

First choice:
De Jong - Fred
Eriksen/Bruno

In that scenario I expect de Jong to stay back and Fred will be joining from the left and Erikson from the right. I think that's what he did for Tottenhan and worked well.

Second choice:
McTominay - Fred/vdB
Bruno/Eriksen

This is what I hope for and doesn't look too bad. Getting this deep player is key to release Fred, what will help us dramatically.

Frenkie isn't a sitting guy, he's wasted as that and why Xavi doesn't want him to replace Busquets. Fred if anything would be the guy who stays, but Frenkie starts deep and moves with the ball into the spaces and brings it through the lines. Fred would be a shuttler who covers the gaps along with providing an option.

But without Frenkie, we've played quite a bit of 1 deep midfielder with 2 roaming 8's in front, similar to City's style. Whether that was Donny and Eriksen, Donny and Bruno, Eriksen and Bruno... We've used it quite a bit. So I could see us using that. Out of possession we switch to a 4231, but in possession it was more 433 if we used 2 of Donny/Bruno/Eriksen together.

 

[Borys]

Frenkie isn't a sitting guy, he's wasted as that and why Xavi doesn't want him to replace Busquets. Fred if anything would be the guy who stays, but Frenkie starts deep and moves with the ball into the spaces and brings it through the lines. Fred would be a shuttler who covers the gaps along with providing an option.

But without Frenkie, we've played quite a bit of 1 deep midfielder with 2 roaming 8's in front, similar to City's style. Whether that was Donny and Eriksen, Donny and Bruno, Eriksen and Bruno... We've used it quite a bit. So I could see us using that. Out of possession we switch to a 4231, but in possession it was more 433 if we used 2 of Donny/Bruno/Eriksen together.

(I take it you're talking about previous seasons not a few games in pre-season)
We did and it was not working, the only effective setup was with McFred at the base + option with Pogba on the left. Playing 1 deep midfielder with roaming 8's has not been working for us mostly because Bruno is not suited to that at all, he's an attacker through and through.
If we do that I would expect Erikson chasing balls lost by Bruno.