Oh, you'd have to define 'gender neutrality' before we can even get started on that one. It means a number of different things to a number of different people.We both acknowledge there is a gender neutrality movement yes? Their aim is not to just change the London Underground announcement.
This would be my personal preference.Gender neutral message on the tube should be "oi you lot!"
Oh, you'd have to define 'gender neutrality' before we can even get started on that one. It means a number of different things to a number of different people.
Are we just thinking of non-discrimination based on gender, or our Dwazza's dream of a moomoo utopia, where gender is a thing of the past?
Implying there are only two genders is clearly going to be viewed as discrimination by those who feel they do not fit in to the binary system.Well I think this wouldn't fall under non-discrimination based on gender? More so gender being a thing of the past. I'm all for non-discrimination but there appears to be a rise of outrage aimed at anything labelled boy/girl/man/woman/gentleman/lady
Not everyone feels they are either male or female. Many feel they are either both or neither.If we have to refer to a trans woman and trans man as a lady and man respectively, then shouldn't ladies and gentlemen still be appropriate?
They have, yes.
People used to think they were Napoleon. Don't tend to get listened to unless thousands of people feel the same way, alas.I personally feel I'm a frog. And I'll be offended if anyone tells me otherwise
I personally feel I'm a frog. And I'll be offended if anyone tells me otherwise
So you're French?I personally feel I'm a frog. And I'll be offended if anyone tells me otherwise
Not transsexuals, usually, no. 'Trans people' includes lots of different people, including those who have no desire to have surgery but feel neither entirely male nor female. Either both or neither. Thus neither 'ladies' nor 'gentlemen' feels applicable to them, whereas 'everyone', 'you lot' or 'feck wads' does.Wait, so some transsexuals get annoyed at hearing ladies and gentlemen through some speakers?
Why if I may ask?
How can someone really be both genders or neither, especially the latter?Not everyone feels they are either male or female. Many feel they are either both or neither.
I could probably dig out a few lengthy posts, I made a while back, describing my own take on feeling both male and female, if you wish?How can someone really be both genders or neither, especially the latter?
How can someone really be both genders or neither, especially the latter?
How can someone really be both genders or neither, especially the latter?
I guess everyone would be more suited but I find all of this incredibly ridiculous tbh.Not transsexuals, usually, no. 'Trans people' includes lots of different people, including those who have no desire to have surgery but feel neither entirely male nor female. Either both or neither. Thus neither 'ladies' nor 'gentlemen' feels applicable to them, whereas 'everyone', 'you lot' or 'feck wads' does.
It's very hard to understand if you've not known anyone experience it, I imagine.I guess everyone would be more suited but I find all of this incredibly ridiculous tbh.
It's like the kind of person (that's still good, right?) that looks for things to get annoyed at. I just don't get it.
I guess everyone would be more suited but I find all of this incredibly ridiculous tbh.
It's like the kind of person (that's still good, right?) that looks for things to get annoyed at. I just don't get it.
You don't have to pull up the posts, but I'd like to know your take on the difference between feeling both genders and being a male sex who's extremely feminine?I could probably dig out a few lengthy posts, describing my own take on feeling both male and female, if you wish?
I can't say I know an awful lot about feeling neither. It's neither a personal experience nor one anyone close to me has ever expressed.
It's not possible to give a short answer to that, so I'll see if I can find them.You don't have to pull up the posts, but I'd like to know your take on the difference between feeling both genders and being a male sex who's extremely feminine?
Or exactly the opposite? I guess it depends on the individual.If you live a life being actively discriminated against, I imagine one of the last things on your mind is to go around looking for things to get annoyed at.
Is there not a standardized definition of gender? Or is that something to be disregarded because someone feels a different interpretation?It would depend on what your definition of gender is and specifically what you feel defines it. Is it just a matter of what plumbing you have? But then there are those born with both. Is it genetics? Again I think there are issues with that also. Is it how a person feels on the inside? Is it just want a person wants to call themselves? etc etc etc etc.
It does. But some cashiers, plumbers or Real Madrid fans also spend their life trying to find things to be offended by.Or exactly the opposite? I guess it depends on the individual.
Is there not a standardized definition of gender? Or is that something to be disregarded because someone feels a different interpretation?
Indeed. There has never been a universal standard of gender. It is entirely culturally dependent.Well what is that standard definition then? Is it set in stone or is it something that could change as we learn more and more about what it is to be human and all that being human entails?
Ultimately, I'm of the belief of "live your life as you please without being a cnut". I just struggle to find the logic in something like not being able to identify with a gender. And I think there's got to be a line drawn somewhere before some weirdos start taking it way too far. (I'm not caucasian. I feel black so include me in ...)I can only imagine, but my understanding has been that some people can feel neither inherently male or female and regularly move between feeling like the two, or in other instances, may not feel like either, at all.
It's something I don't think a person will ever understand without experiencing it to some degree, and as it makes absolutely no difference to my life whatsoever if someone identifies as one particular gender, two genders, or neither, I'm more than happy for them to live their lives as they feel is appropriate for them. Additionally, if there are things that can be changed to make their lives easier, or to make them feel more comfortable in public settings, such as changing announcements from starting, "ladies and gentlemen," I'm more than happy for these changes to be made.
As long as nobody jumps down your throat or starts a Twitter campaign against you if you stand up to address a crowd and without thinking blurt our "ladies and gentlemen."
I guess that's the worry. Not that people might change the words to be inclusive, but that anyone who forgets to do it, or didnt know they were supposed to do it, will be pilloried for it. Not saying that is a big risk, and im sure when the Twitter hordes come after you it wont be for something innocent and trivial, but some people might worry they could say the wrong thing accidentally and then its game over.
Again, Napoleon. Individual views get ignored. Only lots of people having the same experience can cause changes in society.Ultimately, I'm of the belief of "live your life as you please without being a cnut". I just struggle to find the logic in something like not being able to identify with a gender. And I think there's got to be a line drawn somewhere before some weirdos start taking it way too far. (I'm not caucasian. I feel black so include me in ...)
Ultimately, I'm of the belief of "live your life as you please without being a cnut". I just struggle to find the logic in something like not being able to identify with a gender. And I think there's got to be a line drawn somewhere before some weirdos start taking it way too far. (I'm not caucasian. I feel black so include me in ...)
Google definitions show it as the state of being male or female. For the most part, definitions are pretty set in stone. We may just have to coin a new term in place of gender.Well what is that standard definition then? Is it set in stone or is it something that could change as we learn more and more about what it is to be human and all that being human entails?
It was a reference to that one lady, actually. I'm sure it's already been discussed in this thread.Already been done.
Agreed. Especially about the Real Madrid fans.It does. But some cashiers, plumbers or Real Madrid fans also spend their life trying to find things to be offended by.
Fair enough. For what it's worth, I see no problem with the Tube announcement change.Again, Napoleon. Individual views get ignored. Only lots of people having the same experience can cause changes in society.
It's not possible to give a short answer to that, so I'll see if I can find them.
EDIT - https://www.redcafe.net/threads/hello-mr-president-im-non-binary.416709/
In there, somewhere.
But there you have it. What is that state then? Is it permanent for each person? Can it change? Does the definition say that all people have to be one or the other? Or is the term itself too generic to adequately define part of human existence?Google definitions show it as the state of being male or female. For the most part, definitions are pretty set in stone. We may just have to coin a new term in place of gender.
The or keyword implies that.But there you have it. What is that state then? Is it permanent for each person? Can it change? Does the definition say that all people have to be one or the other? Or is the term itself too generic to adequately define part of human existence?
I don't have the answers, I will guarantee I don't even fully understand gender, gender fluidity, etc. The point is that the so called standard definitions and assumptions do not seem to fit everyone and we are becoming more aware and accepting of that.
