Apparently you're not allowed to, you woke liberal. Doesn't matter if they agree with you...
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Has political correctness actually gone mad?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
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It is the issue though, the video that I originally entered the thread to discuss draws a direct parallel between a M->F transitioned trans person, and a male in their prime who clearly works out which is immediately a massive false equivalence. The male's performance is the highlight of the video, not a CIS females.
Also, even males are rarely on the same level as other males competing against them, and likewise with females and females. I think what matters here is the significance of the advantage relatively speaking, and not the presence of any advantage in itself which exists at every level of every competition in some way or another which in itself proves that the existence of an advantage is not in itself an issue because we happily overlook it 90% of the time.
But what's happening here I think is that the answer lies somewhere in the middle, where as things like the FB video that get posted are going so far to one side in their ridicule and in response, people on the other side go equally as far in defence.
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This argument doesn't really add up though, because the alleged 'unnaturally unfair' advantage doesn't come close the naturally unfair advantage which has always and will always exist in sport. Shaquille O'Neal has a greater advantage over me as a basketball player because he's 13 inches taller than I am than the average trans woman has over a cis woman. Do we ban people whose natural gifts make them good at particular sports from those sports?
How is it fair that Michael Phelps is 6' 4", has spades for hands and a body type which lends itself to swimming when I'm 5' 10" with a torso the shape of a can of coke?
This is such absurd logic I don't even know where to begin, with horrible examples. Maybe the fat Wigan keeper should eat less pies and work out more? Ok let's flip this bollocks discussion around, why aren't any transgender men dominating a physical male sport ?I mean it should be equally easy for a woman to make a video where she's casually breaking men's weightlifting records right? I've read about womens professional soccer teams being trounced by male kids and womens track records being broken by teen boys, never the other way round, so tell me HOW THE feck do you take away that advantage if they transition? Go and look at all the transgender athletes dominating women's events causing this whole discussion, and come tell me that their being born male had nothing to do it. Based on your ridiculous advantage logic why even bother with the gender classifications eh? The fact that they mostly wind up dominating is just sheer fecking coincidence or we shouldn't give a shit because Shaquille, Ronaldo and Phelps have an advantage with men
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Of course it is. How is it even possible that you can't see that?
He is reducing gender identity to a joke and not making a well reasoned argument about the minefield of how we administer transgender issues in sport. Just because it is difficult doesn't make it or transgender people a joke
Don't forget not everyone's native language is english on here.
I meant on their behalf, whatever.
I dont really know how to define this, racism? Colourism? Just Twitter being Twitter? But is not being black enough really a thing? Will Smith just got cast to play the Williams sisters dad in a biopic; and it seems like hes not black enough for some people. One twit read "Will Smith is about to be the Scarlet Johansson of black movies".
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...t-play-Serena-Williams-father-new-biopic.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...t-play-Serena-Williams-father-new-biopic.html
He is making the exact point Martina and the other lady are getting called transphobes and getting kicked out of trans groups for in a humorous manner. He hasn't joked about or even mentioned transgender. Seeing what happened with those women It's obvious everyone showing reservation concerning this issue will get you called names and shouted down into silence as per usual PC style, I'm glad someone just decided 'feck it'
He literally says "P.S. I identified as a woman whilst lifting the weight. Don't be a bigot" in the tweet, followed by the "crying with laughter" emoticon. Unless you lack basic literacy skills it should be apparent that he is both mentioning and joking about transgender people.
What would be really funny is if they actually got Scarlet Johansson to play Mr Williams. Black face and everything. Sarcasm
You can continue to make false equivalencies, or you can discuss it intelligently. You're still clearly not getting this and the fact that you're not getting this is making you confused when you reply. The video did not show a transgender man breaking a women's weightlifting record, it showed a man in his prime breaking it. Therefore it achieved absolutely nothing. It was pointless, and an attempt to fish for likes.
The fact that you can't discuss this issue without jumping to extremes, making assumptions without looking at any actual evidence on the topic and your predisposition to how 'bollocks' the discussion is, shows that it's pretty pointless engaging in this with you.
Post looks pretty simple and straightforward to me.I'll say it again, simple as I can. Why don't transgender men go dominating mens physical sport? Do you think it's possible that a woman can break the men's weightlift record? What I wrote about women football teams etc are actual facts you could look up and the rest were very simple questions you could just attempt to answer. But no, just call them all false equivalencies,extremes, assumptions and be done with it. You are right, don't discuss with me anymore, find someone else to continue your intelligent discussions with more very reasonable equivalencies about how Ronaldo has an advantage over the fat Wigan keeper and younger F1 drivers having an advantage over older drivers( which is pure bollocks by the way)so people born men having an advantage over women should be no biggie.
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Guess he's making a point about anyone can say he's a woman and compete with women?
He Is ridiculing people with a gender identity other than his own. It is crass and bigoted. You can discuss how transgender people can play sport in a way that is as equitable as possible for all, and it is obvious we have some way to go in this area, but crass memes laughing at trans people does nothing to address the issue. In fact it does the opposite as the "debate" never gets above the level of "it's a bloke in a dress. It's bollocks innit".
Lets be honest Asian cultural appropriation is just the best, right ?
I mean its given the greatness of the Wu Tang Clang and the best movie of the 90's
It adds up better than the argument you’re making. If physical advantages due to biological sex can be filed alongside being born tall, or with big hands, why don’t women always compete against men?
And, if they did, how many female world champions do you think we’d have?
Who decides what this level is? And then what do you do if a cis woman is naturally above this level? Do we also ban her for competing or make her compete with men?
Nobody has to decide. The level’s been established for aeons. It’s the level at which women (who are born women) compete. And history has proven this to be a sensible approach. Which we can see if we compare the various male vs female world records. Because the alternative involves cis females winning feck all.
Or just had a white actress full stop to ensure 'diversity'
How do you know that for sure?
I'm not saying that It is offensive but not being Spanish or Mexican I'm in no position to say.
Because anyone who tells you that you can’t, if you met them in the street you’d probably scoff and cross the road. You wouldn’t even take them seriously. It’s a hat, imagine an adult telling another adult what they can and can’t wear
I don't know why nobody has said it yet but why aren't the rules "If you are born male, you have to compete with other males regardless of your current situation".
It is crystal clear that anyone transitioning from male to female has advantages that people born female will never have. Fast forward 50 years and the only people winning olympic medals in female events will be those that were born male.
No doubt people will say "Oh but you are then excluding men who transition to women from competing". They are free to compete with the men, they are not free to compete with the women because its patently unfair for them to do so.
I've no issue at all with people moving from male > female if that is what they need to do, its just that if you do move, then your chances of being a successful professional athlete are going to be pretty low. Yes, its not ideal but you have to preserve the integrity of the sport. Some people are born colour blind and can't be airline pilots, not their fault, its just an avenue that is no longer open to them through no fault of their own. Similar story here.
Christ, what is wrong with you.
You don't need to be Spanish or Mexican to point out that wearing a sombrero is stupid to get offended by.
Do you ever adopt the point of view that something is stupid to get offended over? Or do you just pander to the offence of every race/creed that exists in this world because you think its inherently wrong to do anything that might offend someone?
I thought this whole ' but men already have advantages over men' argument was woke twitter nonsense but apparently it's a real thing. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, but still a thing.
I think I have a flaw that means that I don't feel qualified to definitively decide other people's opinions for them.
I don't know. I'm not Mexican.
My point is you are allowed to have an opinion even if you are not the offended party. It's ok when given the most ridiculous of scenarios to come out and say "Yeah, that would be fecking dumb to get offended by".
I mean take this hat example, even in the most ludicrous examples of cultural appropriation you'd rather put forth non-committals and instead of providing your own opinion, just question the opinions of others and refrain from saying how you feel because how you feel is intrinsically related to how the offended party feels. You'll feel offence on their behalf if they demonstrate it, and if they don't, then you don't be offended.
Considering being offended is a choice, I find this mentality to just be pandering and devoid of any logical reasoning.
That's admirable but its not about deciding other peoples' opinions for them, its having your own opinion about the validity of someone else's opinion.
If someone is racist, do you just say, "who am I to comment on this person's views?"
Are people only allowed to appraise other people's opinions when they dont consider themselves a victim?
I imagine Idigenous Americans might have an opinion about that statementBecause anyone who tells you that you can’t, if you met them in the street you’d probably scoff and cross the r4oad. You wouldn’t even take them seriously. It’s a hat, imagine an adult telling another adult what they can and can’t wear
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I won't lie, I don't even understand the point of this latest back and forth. What's wrong with being non committal or cautious? Why do you have to pick a stance and dig in?
Never understood why sitting on the fence is often derided.
Never understood why sitting on the fence is often derided.
I demand an uproar for what America, Marvel and Hollywood has put us Norwegians through. Not only cultural appropriation, but even fecking religious.
They even cast a black guy as one of Odin's sons. That is straight up Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's level of wrong.
They even cast a black guy as one of Odin's sons. That is straight up Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's level of wrong.
Oh my god
The problem with cultural appropriation isn’t that white people wear sombrero’s or kimonos now and then - it’s about the fact that other people’s culture are reduced to costumes that are ridiculed as if they are meaningless and unimportant. Also the people of said cultures, which often belong to those of a ethnic minority, are subject to racial and racial stereotyping at every level from individual incidents to systemic discrimination - when they remove their ‘costumes’ they can’t escspe such treatment against them.
Also, certain cultures and cultural traditions used to be the subject of ridicule when worn by a person from said culture, but a white person doing the same invites praise and compliments. This creates an environment of discontent, understandably.
There’s a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. Conflating the two is asinine and only shows a lack of nuance and understanding on the issue.
Also on the topic of transgender people, it never fails to amaze me just how many people have a problem with something that simply doesn’t involve or affect their lives in anyway.
People are trans, it’s not a big deal.
Finally, people have always been offended, you just didn’t have access to their opinions or perspective
The problem with cultural appropriation isn’t that white people wear sombrero’s or kimonos now and then - it’s about the fact that other people’s culture are reduced to costumes that are ridiculed as if they are meaningless and unimportant. Also the people of said cultures, which often belong to those of a ethnic minority, are subject to racial and racial stereotyping at every level from individual incidents to systemic discrimination - when they remove their ‘costumes’ they can’t escspe such treatment against them.
Also, certain cultures and cultural traditions used to be the subject of ridicule when worn by a person from said culture, but a white person doing the same invites praise and compliments. This creates an environment of discontent, understandably.
There’s a difference between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. Conflating the two is asinine and only shows a lack of nuance and understanding on the issue.
Also on the topic of transgender people, it never fails to amaze me just how many people have a problem with something that simply doesn’t involve or affect their lives in anyway.
People are trans, it’s not a big deal.
Finally, people have always been offended, you just didn’t have access to their opinions or perspective
It is a big deal when they compete in sports with people born as females and have an unfair advantage, which was the latest thing people were talking about. Before we got onto Sombreros.
They don't compete against men because of hormonal differences which mean that generally, men have more muscle mass and advantageous muscle composition. The science shows that those advantages dwindle pretty quickly once hormone replacement kicks in. I'm assuming here that we're talking about trans-women who have undergone a medical transition rather than all trans-women.
Male athletes like the ones I mentioned with the same build but less muscle/less efficient muscle would be at a significant competitive disadvantage in women's sport if they transitioned. An analogy I've heard used is like having a big car and putting an engine designed for a smaller car in. It won't go as fast or be as maneuveorable as a smaller car with the same engine would because it's lugging around a bunch more dead weight.
Obviously in some sports having a bigger frame is an advantage regardless but in many sports, especially low-contact, high mobility or endurance sports, lugging around a larger bone structure with smaller and less efficient muscles will slow you down more than it helps you. Ultimately I think blanket rules are daft either way, decisions should be on a sport by sport basis.
This has got nothing to do with political correctness, so I should probably start a new thread. Will reply to you there.
EDIT: Actually, will use existing thread.
They can if they like, it’s up to them
What % of professional sports stars are trans?
I haven’t looked it up but I’m guessing it’s a minuscule number, especially as normal trans people are a single digit percentage as part of society anyway.
I’m not getting into the advantages or disadvantages of it all because this isn’t the thread for it, and the reasoning usually comes from transphobia or a lack of understanding of what being trans actually is.
The point is that they aren’t affecting society and the historia surrounding them is unreasonable.