Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

[Sandikan]

I don't rate Martial particularly highly and I'm not entirely sure why others do. He can't make the national team and none of his team mates seem to mention him in their 5-aside teams or top 11's, nor has any defender evet come out and said he's difficult to play against. I just don't think it will work out for him at United.

Having said all that, his goal return this year has been much better so I can't really criticise him right now. I'd give him another full season and plan to buy a quality CF next summer either as competition for places or to replace him.

France have one hell of a national team squad - they are world champs after all.
Do many of our players mention any of our squad as being in their top 5asides or 11 a sides? Do many defenders give ratings on their current toughest opponents? Seems more like retirement talk for podcasts and to stay in the media to me.


However, he certainly has it all to do, both in playing enough games without injury, and scoring enough goals.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Look at my ‘Rank our strikers over the last 30 years’ - most people have put Martial at or near the bottom of the list.

Obviously. But the last thirty years comprise five very different - say - phases in terms of a) how good the team was as such, internal cohesion and whatnot and b) how good it was relative to the competition, both domestically and in Europe.

1: "Building something special".
2: "Brilliant".
3: "Re-building towards something special".
4: "Brilliant again, then fading somewhat but still."
5: "Shite, really, not least for the money spent."

Martial has only been a part of the last phase - so far. But that - clearly - is not his fault.

That said, I'm not a believer. Has he done enough? No - not really. He hasn't done anything to convince me that he's a genuine top notch striker of the sort who wouldn't look out of place in a team challenging for the biggest prizes.

 

[VeevaVee]

He's not done enough, and he's not not done enough. The problem is we need someone who does enough, so it will always be risky going in to a season with him leading the line until he consistently does enough.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Obviously. But the last thirty years comprise five very different - say - phases in terms of a) how good the team was as such, internal cohesion and whatnot and b) how good it was relative to the competition, both domestically and in Europe.

1: "Building something special".
2: "Brilliant".
3: "Re-building towards something special".
4: "Brilliant again, then fading somewhat but still."
5: "Shite, really, not least for the money spent."

Martial has only been a part of the last phase - so far. But that - clearly - is not his fault.

That said, I'm not a believer. Has he done enough? No - not really. He hasn't done anything to convince me that he's a genuine top notch striker of the sort who wouldn't look out of place in a team challenging for the biggest prizes.

If we want to get back to phase 2 then we need to have players who are good enough to get us to that level, and striker is a key position in that. I don’t mind having Martial as part of the squad, who can cover the left and centre, but he shouldn’t be first choice.

 

[James Ward]

No, not good enough. Need a striker who will put their body on the line for every cross and run onto balls and poaches goals.

Martial just hangs back waiting for a ball to his feet. He is utterly far too lazy for a Manchester United player.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

If we want to get back to phase 2 then we need to have players who are good enough to get us to that level, and striker is a key position in that. I don’t mind having Martial as part of the squad, who can cover the left and centre, but he shouldn’t be first choice.

I don't disagree.

Martial ain't a Phase 2 starter. Not as such - not as it stands.

 

[sparx99]

It’s an interesting one for me. His mentality is infuriating. If he had 20% more work rate then he’d be brilliant.

That being said he is still only 24! Many other strikers take until they 26-27 before they hit their best years and clearly martial has suffered in his development by being messed around with positionally and having multiple managers.

Thierry Henry was written off as a failure at Juventus for not knowing if he was a winger or striker. It’s a lazy comparison but there is some similarity. Perhaps with Bruno, Rashford and Pogba we are about to see how good Martial can be. If he fails now then Greenwood or Haaland in a year or two could be the end of his time as our main man.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I genuinely believe there will be a lot of posters eating humble pie next season.

 

[Sayros]

I genuinely believe there will be a lot of posters eating humble pie next season.

Same, I think short of injuries Martial will have his best seasons with Bruno and Pogba on the team, and a healthy Rashford. If he doesn't, then he's not the potential people saw and he could be a squad player or sold.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

No.

Simply because he's not a #9.

 

[Sayros]

No.

Simply because he's not a #9.

#9 doesn't mean what it used to. It's just forwards apparently nowadays, this is how CR7 got voted the best striker of the 21st century in a recent poll that was linked here. People aren't as stiff with their definitions anymore.

 

[Deery]

No.

Simply because he's not a #9.

What exactly is he then if not a 9?

Just a forward, am still really not sure what Martial is..

 

[KennyBurner]

Well thank god you can't really criticize him right now

the jokes right themselves.

 

[Rish Sawhney]

What does it even mean to "back him as our long term number 9"?

 

[jem]

The poster I was replying too said I could only name 5 of the best strikers and wingers. Those are very good players but they don’t make my top best. Wish I could find a way to squeeze son in because he is very quality. Jiminez and firmino are both good players.

But would you have Martial ahead of Firmino, Jiminez and Son? I certainly think he has the potential, but at this moment, I think they are ahead of him.

 

[jem]

Well if you were managed by crappy managers like LVG and Jose who are asking too much from a forward player, all his ability to move forward is curbed. I will not agree if you said he's not a good player because he is excellent, he does things that other players dream of doing. His ball control capabilities are so great that i feel he just slides with it. Of course i will also say that he is not perfect but he certainly is not a bad seed. He's wonderful and will prove his worth very soon.

I'm not sure why you are including LVG in this. Martial looked very promising in his system.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

But would you have Martial ahead of Firmino, Jiminez and Son? I certainly think he has the potential, but at this moment, I think they are ahead of him.

He said Martial is one of the best strikers in the premier league

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I think if people spend the time to objectively analyse Martial in full context it’s very difficult to say he’s not good enough. Next season as a striker I am confident he’ll get at least 16 league goals and I’m 100% certain he’ll be 20-30 goals overall. It will be his big breakthrough season and I am happy to be quoted on this if it all goes tits up.

Look at most young forwards careerS and look at what level they were playing at and when they moved to the PL when they entered their peak years.

I see a player literally on the brink of a special season.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I think if people spend the time to objectively analyse Martial in full context it’s very difficult to say he’s not good enough. Next season as a striker I am confident he’ll get at least 16 league goals and I’m 100% certain he’ll be 20-30 goals overall. It will be his big breakthrough season and I am happy to be quoted on this if it all goes tits up.

Look at most young forwards careerS and look at what level they were playing at and when they moved to the PL when they entered their peak years.

I see a player literally on the brink of a special season.

I'm really expecting him to go another gear next season. If he does he's going to be one of the best in the league. He just needs to go one more level up

 

[KennyBurner]

But would you have Martial ahead of Firmino, Jiminez and Son? I certainly think he has the potential, but at this moment, I think they are ahead of him.

Yes I would. I very much believe martial is better than all three as a striker.

Jiminez is the weakest player in that list. I dont know why you would think Jiminez is better than martial. Martial has 11 goals in 22 apps/1885 mins while Jiminez has 13 in 28 apps/2465 mins. This is like the first season were he is going above and beyond and he is 29.

Son is a very debateable option here because he isnt even a central striker. He plays as a left forward and is a Hybrid sort of attacker similar to Ronaldo. I dont know how effecient he can be as the sole striker. I think he has only played as the striker a few times for Spurs this season so I dont even know why we are debating him as a better striker than martial.

I would take Jiminez, Son then Firmino in that order because only Jiminez is your ideal number 9 out of the three. I dont think firmino is a great forward even though he leads the line for Liverpool. He doesn't really play as a striker but more as an attacking midfielder. It works for Liverpool but would fail in any other setup where he is the focal point of attack. Great attacking midfielder that supports his two worldclass inside forwards.

 

[Deery]

Yes I would. I very much believe martial is better than all three as a striker.

Jiminez is the weakest player in that list. I dont know why you would think Jiminez is better than martial. Martial has 11 goals in 22 apps/1885 mins while Jiminez has 13 in 28 apps/2465 mins. This is like the first season were he is going above and beyond and he is 29.

Son is a very debateable option here because he isnt even a central striker. He plays as a left forward and is a Hybrid sort of attacker similar to Ronaldo. I dont know how effecient he can be as the sole striker. I think he has only played as the striker a few times for Spurs this season so I dont even know why we are debating him as a better striker than martial.

I would take Jiminez, Son then Firmino in that order because only Jiminez is your ideal number 9 out of the three. I dont think firmino is a great forward even though he leads the line for Liverpool. He doesn't really play as a striker but more as an attacking midfielder. it works for Liverpool but would fail in any other setup where he is the focal point of attack.

You’d honestly take Jimenez over Son?

I honestly think Son has been one of the best players in the league over the last couple of seasons.
He’d walk into our starting eleven probably even give Rashford a run for his money.

 

[KennyBurner]

You’d honestly take Jimenez over Son?

I honestly think Son has been one of the best players in the league over the last couple of seasons.
He’d walk into our starting eleven probably even give Rashford a run for his money.

As a striker absolutely. Son is a left forward, not a central striker. I also very much like Jiminez. He is the backup striker we desperately need. Above 6ft, good in the air and can hold up the ball.

Son is also better than rashford across the board but I would take rashford for personal reasons and because of his speed.

 

[Deery]

As a striker absolutely. Son is a left forward, not a central striker. I also very much like Jiminez. He is the backup striker we desperately need. Above 6ft, good in the air and can hold up the ball.

Son is also better than rashford across the board but I would take rashford for personal reasons and because of his speed.

Though generally speaking Son is a much better player than Jiminez, and isn’t Martial a left sided forward too.

I wouldn’t take Son over Rashford either btw.. Not because of pace but because I think he has another level in him yet maybe be better than Son in a year or two..

 

[UncleBob]

But would you have Martial ahead of Firmino, Jiminez and Son? I certainly think he has the potential, but at this moment, I think they are ahead of him.

Firmino

 

[UncleBob]

I have no idea why fans are so desperate to have a go at certain players.
Just like most players, Martial depends on being surrounded by other quality players. Considering the limited amount of time where we've been able to play Rashford, Martial and Pogba together, heck even just Martial and Rashford together, It''s impressive that they've managed to hit the numbers they have. Is anyone genuinly surprised that players struggle when there's no creativity around them, when there's feck all of a centre midfield to the point that we have to stick Lingard and Pereira there because our only two fit midfielders are Matic and Fred ? I mean, jesus. It's not exactly like Rashford on his own was performing like a one man team when he was in a similar situation.

There's far more pressing matters than Martial up top. Get a good midfield with players that can get the ball to Rashford and Martial in dangerous positions and they'll consistently score goals.

How many players does Liverpool have that have scored over 20 goals in the league this season ?

 

[Based Adnan]

The guy has 16 goals despite his chance providers being mostly shite all season pre Fernandes, 2 months out injured and an unfinished season.

 

[jem]

Yes I would. I very much believe martial is better than all three as a striker.

Jiminez is the weakest player in that list. I dont know why you would think Jiminez is better than martial. Martial has 11 goals in 22 apps/1885 mins while Jiminez has 13 in 28 apps/2465 mins. This is like the first season were he is going above and beyond and he is 29.

Son is a very debateable option here because he isnt even a central striker. He plays as a left forward and is a Hybrid sort of attacker similar to Ronaldo. I dont know how effecient he can be as the sole striker. I think he has only played as the striker a few times for Spurs this season so I dont even know why we are debating him as a better striker than martial.

I would take Jiminez, Son then Firmino in that order because only Jiminez is your ideal number 9 out of the three. I dont think firmino is a great forward even though he leads the line for Liverpool. He doesn't really play as a striker but more as an attacking midfielder. It works for Liverpool but would fail in any other setup where he is the focal point of attack. Great attacking midfielder that supports his two worldclass inside forwards.

At this moment, I’d say Son is a better left sided attacker than Martial, one of the positions which you said Martial excelled at. However, the last thing I want anybody to think is that I don’t rate Martial. I love him!

 

[Mr Smith]

What does it even mean to "back him as our long term number 9"?

Trust him to lead the line for us and take buying a new striker off the priority list?

Which does appear to be what the club has done tbf.

 

[Member 113277]

#9 doesn't mean what it used to. It's just forwards apparently nowadays, this is how CR7 got voted the best striker of the 21st century in a recent poll that was linked here. People aren't as stiff with their definitions anymore.

CR7 is 6'2" and physically strong - he can and has played a classic #9 role, as well as a winger role. Antony M is 5'11" and relatively slender, this means he can dribble effectively, but lacks raw power - he is what I'd describe (in old money) as an inside forward - so is Marcus - neither of them are 'poachers' in the six yard box and Ighalo has reminded us how that works.

So I'd say the thread title is wrong, the question isn't if AM is our long term #9, but what is his best role in the team? The post upthread mentioning Thierry Henry in the context of early career confusion over his role is pertinent.

 

[Rasendori]

CR7 is 6'2" and physically strong - he can and has played a classic #9 role, as well as a winger role. Antony M is 5'11" and relatively slender, this means he can dribble effectively, but lacks raw power - he is what I'd describe (in old money) as an inside forward - so is Marcus - neither of them are 'poachers' in the six yard box and Ighalo has reminded us how that works.

So I'd say the thread title is wrong, the question isn't if AM is our long term #9, but what is his best role in the team? The post upthread mentioning Thierry Henry in the context of early career confusion over his role is pertinent.

In Ole's system, he's looked most effective in his current role, as opposed to Ole's 18/19 when he was situated on the left in the starting berth.

Encouraging signs from Martial as a #9 in Ole's system.

Drops deep and interchanges with Rashford

Comes short

Martial dropping deep led to Greenwood almost scoring from Bisakka's cross.

Very deep

Spins Jorginho

From his back to goal to making United go on the offensive

Picks out Pereira

However ...

Doesn't always come off

As the pass led to a turnover in possession and a chance for Barkley

 

[tenpoless]

He can be a modern number nine, a classic number nine, or someone like Ronaldo who started as a winger that scored a lot of goals before He turned into a striker. I don't care.

But please not a false 9. For the love of god, We don't have a lot of goal scorers. So please, not a false 9. I beg you.

 

[hmchan]

In Ole's system, he's looked most effective in his current role, as opposed to Ole's 18/19 when he was situated on the left in the starting berth.

I appreciate the way you present your ideas a lot. The screenshots make the point really clear and easy to discuss. However, they don't seem encouraging signs to me and I'm not convinced by Martial's role under Ole at all.

First is the interchanging position. It's more accurate to say overloading the left because Rashford doesn't really take up the centre forward position most of the time. It's originally a good tactic to confuse the opponent's defence, but it contradicts with another philosophy of ours - high pressing. Our forwards are always out of position after each attack, and we are unable to organize an effective press after that. That's why our high press never works and is easily broken. Teams effective in high press (e.g. City and Liverpool) all have a structured attack and their players won't go out of position easily.

Second is the dropping deep. The rationale of dropping deep is to draw opposition's centre backs out of position, create spaces for others and hopefully play the ball into those spaces. However as reflected from your snapshots, Martial drops so deep that the defenders basically won't follow him. This doesn't help the team in any way, other than letting him to have a few meaningless touches or sideway passes. I'd rather have him to stay up front occupying the centre backs all day long.

That said, I'm not suggesting Martial should be dropped whatsoever, and he will have all the time he needs to improve his centre forward play. But if he can't fulfill his potential in the next season or two, we may have to reconsider our choices.

 

[Member 113277]

In Ole's system, he's looked most effective in his current role, as opposed to Ole's 18/19 when he was situated on the left in the starting berth.

Interesting analysis, thanks for sharing.

 

[van Nistelrooy]

What exactly is he then if not a 9?

Just a forward, am still really not sure what Martial is..

He's a very inconsistent attacking left-midfielder.

Unfortunately for Martial, Rashford is too.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

It’s simple I challenge anyone here to name me a gettable and better suited player for our side next season.

I then challenge you to explain why Martial with Bruno etc won’t be able to score more.

If you are able to do that I’ll listen.

 

[Deery]

It’s simple I challenge anyone here to name me a gettable and better suited player for our side next season.

I then challenge you to explain why Martial with Bruno etc won’t be able to score more.

If you are able to do that I’ll listen.

Martinez from Inter Milan? Swap deal with Sanchez plus money.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Martinez from Inter Milan? Swap deal with Sanchez plus money.

Has a release clause of 100m plus and Inter has already said they are not selling unless that clause is activated

 

[OleTheGreat]

I'm not sure why you are including LVG in this. Martial looked very promising in his system.

It was his debut season and he did more than he should to prove his worth during the first few months at the club but if you did follow the games during the latter part of the season and the season after that, his performances went below par because the wing backs just kept hoofing the ball forward and Martial was always left alone on the left without having much to do

 

[romufc]

He's a very inconsistent attacking left-midfielder.

Unfortunately for Martial, Rashford is too.

He has been given the CF this season and has 16 goals.

What player under 24 is consistent?

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It’s simple I challenge anyone here to name me a gettable and better suited player for our side next season.

I then challenge you to explain why Martial with Bruno etc won’t be able to score more.

If you are able to do that I’ll listen.

Only player I can think of is Jimenez. I'd say he's more suited because not only does he possess Martial's best assets - link up play and dribbling he's also more of a no. 9 than Martial though Martial is the better finisher. I'd still pick Martial over Jimenez. In his first season as a striker in years Martial is putting out similar stats with Jimenez best season and he should only get better. So in the I don't think there's anybody available that I'd choose over Martial.

To be honest Martial drifts from being overly protected to overly criticised on the Caf