Has Martial done enough to be backed as our long-term #9?

Steven-UK said:
Martial is over-rated; we'll be giving him his testimonial in a couple of years, and we are still asking ourselves if he is good/consistent enough.....I'd rather play Ighalo, a proper striker.
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Questions to consider.
  1. Why is he over rated in your opinion?
  2. What context do you believe he’s been playing in this season?
  3. What context do you believe he’s been playing in in all other seasons?
  4. What constitutes a “proper striker?”
  5. What would your criteria be for Martial being considered good enough?
 
Sayros said:
Top post, not the first time either coming from you. Agreed with everything you've said. Martial deserves more respect for what he has done despite the circumstances, but as this team tries to go from rebuild to contender, he now has the creativity you'd want to have his best season. I think most people will agree he deserves to show what he can do as the main man up front, and if he falls short then we can move from that idea to making him a squad player that can cover both left wing and up front.
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Thank you, and yep, as the team improves and he gets more game time in the role I'm expecting him to increase his output and hit another level because I think he's fully capable of doing so. Even the jump from his last 3 seasons to this season has been evident in terms of his output and performances. I find myself coming back here often due to my frustration at reading some of the posts . There's nothing wrong with criticism and varying opinion - not everybody has to rate him as highly as I do but sometimes it feels like people criticize for the sake of criticizing. Posters in here jumping on the 'he's not a proper number 9' narrative seem to think a 'proper' number 9 offers us everything Martial offers and more, when in actuality we had a 'top end' pure number 9 last season who we sold for nearly 80m pounds in Lukaku and when comparing them Martial is better technically. has better hold up play (although Martial can still improve in this aspect), makes the players around him better, has a better record in big games and most importantly is better for the team and the style of play a team like United wishes to play so where does the truth lie? I hope Martial stays on this trajectory, and like you said if he doesn't then we can definitely replace him but its absurd to do so now when it seems he's on his way.
 
Quinzaine said:
when in actuality we had a 'top end' pure number 9 last season who we sold for nearly 80m pounds in Lukaku and when comparing them Martial is better technically.
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That is the perfect point. We had a No. 9 that everyone who says "proper no 9" and he got us goals yet we moved on. The type of football Ole wants to play, does not require a target man No. 9, we need a player who will be clever in his runs and movement.

What alot of people dont seem to grasp is the football is a team game and you need your forwards to have an understanding. The way Martial and Rashford link up completely suits us because when Martial decides to drift, Rashford goes central. Martial allows the front 3 to be flexible and even allowing Bruno to get ahead of the play if need be.

Last season the ball popped into Lukaku and the players kind of didnt know what will happen? more often he started a counter attack for the other team.
 
I think to be fair at least on this thread there is a greater appreciation now of the context behind Martial and dare I say a sensible amount of optimism to combat those who think he isn’t good enough with no reasonable alternative suggested.

Ive said it once and I’ll say it again.

I think a lot of posters will look back on their views of Martial and be embarrassed.
 
romufc said:
That is the perfect point. We had a No. 9 that everyone who says "proper no 9" and he got us goals yet we moved on. The type of football Ole wants to play, does not require a target man No. 9, we need a player who will be clever in his runs and movement.

What alot of people dont seem to grasp is the football is a team game and you need your forwards to have an understanding. The way Martial and Rashford link up completely suits us because when Martial decides to drift, Rashford goes central. Martial allows the front 3 to be flexible and even allowing Bruno to get ahead of the play if need be.

Last season the ball popped into Lukaku and the players kind of didnt know what will happen? more often he started a counter attack for the other team.
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Yep, most posters here would be screaming for Lukaku had he not played for us. The obsession with having a proper 'number 9' is bizarre given arguably our best ever front 3 consisted of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez - none of whom are target men.
 
Quinzaine said:
Yep, most posters here would be screaming for Lukaku had he not played for us. The obsession with having a proper 'number 9' is bizarre given arguably our best ever front 3 consisted of Ronaldo, Rooney, Tevez - none of whom are target men.
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Replacing Martial means, selling Martial, finding a ST who will fit the team - no one can even give 3 options of who we could sign and would come to United.

Secondly, if Greenwood was playing somewhere else, we would be saying pay £60/70m to sign him. We have him, and he is being slowly introduced into this team. That is why the Ighalo loan is perfect for us.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I think to be fair at least on this thread there is a greater appreciation now of the context behind Martial and dare I say a sensible amount of optimism to combat those who think he isn’t good enough with no reasonable alternative suggested.

Ive said it once and I’ll say it again.

I think a lot of posters will look back on their views of Martial and be embarrassed.
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I wouldn't say embarrassed, because I've held a view since he arrived under LVG that he displays a moodiness in the way he appears sometimes to be highly talented and at others to be disinterested, so couldn't be attributed just to the way he was managed by Mourinho. Watching our matches from this season during the hiatus, though, I've definitely revised my view that he would be a risk as a long term striker.

Some of his football has been as good as anyone else we could get, and I suspect Ole, for all his lack of managerial experience at high level, has the knack of tapping into talent without the ego and insecurity of Mourinho and the rigidity of LVG. Martial seems to be a player who depends a lot on the way he's handled by the manager, and on the quality of the players around him. Now you could say that's true of any player, but where some can flourish despite the manager and a less talented team, Martial's confidence depends much more on these elements. Pogba is similar, although a more extrovert character, who shows his frustrations differently.

With Fernandes having such a crucial impact in midfield and the effect that's visibly had on players like Fred and Mata, as well as Martial, I do think Martial is at the point of producing some of the best football we've seen from him. As other posters have pointed out, we're not going to rely on a single striker nowadays, so with Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and Ighalo (at least in the short term), we have an excellent range of different styles. So happy days I think.
 
Quinzaine said:
Thank you, and yep, as the team improves and he gets more game time in the role I'm expecting him to increase his output and hit another level because I think he's fully capable of doing so. Even the jump from his last 3 seasons to this season has been evident in terms of his output and performances. I find myself coming back here often due to my frustration at reading some of the posts . There's nothing wrong with criticism and varying opinion - not everybody has to rate him as highly as I do but sometimes it feels like people criticize for the sake of criticizing. Posters in here jumping on the 'he's not a proper number 9' narrative seem to think a 'proper' number 9 offers us everything Martial offers and more, when in actuality we had a 'top end' pure number 9 last season who we sold for nearly 80m pounds in Lukaku and when comparing them Martial is better technically. has better hold up play (although Martial can still improve in this aspect), makes the players around him better, has a better record in big games and most importantly is better for the team and the style of play a team like United wishes to play so where does the truth lie? I hope Martial stays on this trajectory, and like you said if he doesn't then we can definitely replace him but its absurd to do so now when it seems he's on his way.
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Even Ole has demanded more from him.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-of-anthony-martial-as-manchester-united-no-9

It's clear the type of no.9 Ole and the fans wants. The Harry Kane, Lewandowski type of no.9 with good link up play and hold up play with good finishing while also having the instinct to be at the right place at the right time. Fans insulted Lukaku his link up and hold up play were shit. And Ole sold him for this because he didn't fit the type of no.9 he wants. Fans didn't want Icardi for a similar reason. To put it this way they Icardi and Lukaku are no.9s but there are things lacking in their game that Ole and the fans want

When it comes to Martial you can see it in his play. The potential is there to be the type of no.9 Ole and the fans want. There are just some things he is lacking in his game that a no.9 should have (Ole himself has spoken on this). Having Ighalo here was a major eye opener on this topic
 
Martial is a good player man and he's numbers are quite decent. He isn't the type you can just drop into any side and he'll pull up trees. Things need to align to get the most out of him. That's why its probably best to assess more next season when he has both Bruno and Pogba linking as he has only just been trusted with the 9 role and we have lacked our main creative force this season. I appreciate that other strikers have to make do without a Pogba or a Bruno supplying them but I still feel we should wait till all the pieces are in place before making such a final decision as to who has secured a long term position.

If he tears it up then we are laughing as we saved 100million on a potential position. If not then United will be United and show ruthlessness in the market as history has shown.
 
romufc said:
That is the perfect point. We had a No. 9 that everyone who says "proper no 9" and he got us goals yet we moved on. The type of football Ole wants to play, does not require a target man No. 9, we need a player who will be clever in his runs and movement.

What alot of people dont seem to grasp is the football is a team game and you need your forwards to have an understanding. The way Martial and Rashford link up completely suits us because when Martial decides to drift, Rashford goes central. Martial allows the front 3 to be flexible and even allowing Bruno to get ahead of the play if need be.

Last season the ball popped into Lukaku and the players kind of didnt know what will happen? more often he started a counter attack for the other team.
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THANK YOU!!!!! How people cannot grasp this I fail to understand. Look at how Firmino allows Salah/Mane to be at the top of their game due to how much space he creates for them and his link up play. This "proper no9" thing is overrated especially the ones with hold up play and technique as average as Lukaku`s. Greenwood is the only ST in the team we should be looking to build the team around in the near future due to how well al rounded he is himself on top of being VERY clinical. Even historically during our last Golden Era we didn`t have a "proper no9" in Rooney/Saha and Rooney/Tevez and our football was terrific.
 
RkkMan said:
THANK YOU!!!!! How people cannot grasp this I fail to understand. Look at how Firmino allows Salah/Mane to be at the top of their game due to how much space he creates for them and his link up play. This "proper no9" thing is overrated especially the ones with hold up play and technique as average as Lukaku`s. Greenwood is the only ST in the team we should be looking to build the team around in the near future due to how well al rounded he is himself on top of being VERY clinical. Even historically during our last Golden Era we didn`t have a "proper no9" in Rooney/Saha and Rooney/Tevez and our football was terrific.
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I cannot tell you that, I struggle as well. You have to play with players that suit the team and the system.

Exactly, the front 3 were always interchangeable, one of the reasons we were so free flowing as a team, it really is a defenders nightmare not knowing who to mark.

Martial has been good this season, if he scores another 3/4 goals he would be hitting 20 goals when most people are calling for the manager to be sacked.
 
Not to date. A fit and motivated Martial with our current crop of players though, has the rest of the season to prove he deserves it.

Martial should thrive with Rashford, Pogba and Bruno in the team. I struggle to see him failing. He's having his best seasons to date without them being available often.

Exciting and important end to the season for him.
 
I mean it's quite obvious he's not consistent enough to be our starting #9. We missed a trick on Werner.
 
Kane's done crap all either. Our whole team has been crap.

If we dont win - people start shooting at this guy.

Ole made some stupid decisions playing Daniel James as a RW again and again when he had a whole season to see the lad cant cut in on his right foot, he crosses with his eyes on the floor and not at other players and there is no reason to play such a player when Martial himself is supportive too.

Should have just played Greenwood. We need left footed players on the right hand side and why people have a go at Martial whilst literally the whole team did shit all is literally dumb. Literally not one chance was created where he messed up the chance.
 
Kane is what you regard as world class. What has he done in this game ??
 
Bebestation said:
Kane's done crap all either. Our whole team has been crap.

If we dont win - people start shooting at this guy.

Ole made some stupid decisions playing Daniel James as a RW again and again when he had a whole season to see the lad cant cut in on his right foot, he crosses with his eyes on the floor and not at other players and there is no reason to play such a player when Martial himself is supportive too.

Should have just played Greenwood. We need left footed players on the right hand side and why people have a go at Martial whilst literally the whole team did shit all is literally dumb. Literally not one chance was created where he messed up the chance.
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It is true. Kane has done nothing. Rashford was in the pocket. Bit harsh to dig out only Martial here. James was like lower level player.
 
Did better once we brought on more creative players. Was removed just when he was getting into the game. Expect him to do better in the next game. This was a tough matchup and he was average just like rashford and the rest.
 
Martial's performances are like flipping a coin these days .
 
It would be harsh to judge him on that game alone. It's never easy going up against a Jose backs-to-the-wall special.
 
We need a guaranteed 30-40 goals a season striker to be a a truly top top team. I can’t see Martial ever getting close to those Kinds of numbers.
 
No balls into feet all lumped forward where he was bound to get dicked on by Dier in the air. When Pogba came on he was much more involved and then got subbed off.
 
Yeah he struggled, but still did much more than the player people would spend 100 million to replace him with in Kane. Kane literally did nothing
 
Martial was our best forward especially once Pogba and Greenwood came on.

It's been so obvious the whole season- he just wont work with Daniel James out on the right and we need as much creative players as possible for our attackers to work.

Ole needs to stop being a baby now and realise Greenwood has broken through to the first team and doesnt need shielding and Pogba and Bruno makes teams scared to play against us - not teams more attacking prone.
 
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He should have scored that chance when Bruno laid it on a plate for him.

Just took too long to react.
 
I just don't think he'll ever be consistent and deadly enough to ever be the starting number 9 for one of the very top teams. I hope with everything in me that I'm wrong and it clicks for him eventually with us though. This isn't really based solely on tonights game though, obviously, he didn't do great many players on the pitch tonight for both teams looked rusty.
 
If there was one player you would expect to start slowly in this restart, it's Martial. Nothing to see here.
 
Martial did more in the second half than Rashford did all game. If Martial did what Rashford did just before that second 'penalty' you lot would be absolutely slating him now.

It just is what it is tonight. I'm not saying we should slate Rashford by the way. This first round of fixtures is going to be weird for a lot of people.

Let's just let this promising team play together and see what happens. Pogba, Bruno, Rashford and Martial and hopefully Greenwood, can finish this season very strongly.
 
He was poor, but let's put it this way. Did Kane do something? Nothing & probably worse. Martial's 2nd chance was good taken from him, also shows you left & right he can do it, great save from Lloris.
 
Bubz27 said:
Martial did more in the second half than Rashford did all game. If Martial did what Rashford did just before that second 'penalty' you lot would be absolutely slating him now.

It just is what it is tonight. I'm not saying we should slate Rashford by the way. This first round of fixtures is going to be weird for a lot of people.

Let's just let this promising team play together and see what happens. Pogba, Bruno, Rashford and Martial and hopefully Greenwood, can finish this season very strongly.
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It's a fair point.

Rashford did badly muck up that chance before the non-pen was given.
 
Random Task said:
It would be harsh to judge him on that game alone. It's never easy going up against a Jose backs-to-the-wall special.
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This is how I feel as well. These guys haven't played football in months. they're going to be rusty. He got very little service throughout the majority of the game, but had two chances. Admittedly didn't do too well with the first, but could hardly have done more with the second.
 
I’m his biggest fan but he needs to score that chance.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
He should have scored that chance when Bruno laid it on a plate for him.

Just took too long to react.
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He took too much pace of the pass. Stopped the ball dead so it was slightly under his feet. With a pass like that he needed to use the pace of the pass to push the ball slightly ahead of him.
 
Let's face it unfortunately he's not good enough to be a main striker for a full 38 games season.

He's a very useful player but he drifts in and out way too much and main striker needs to be one of the most consistent players in the team imo.

We need to buy another striker and let both compete on the position. A competition will keep him on his toes and will benefit the team overall.
 
As is standard for a martial performance i didn't even notice he was on the pitch until the scuffed shot. I used to really like him as well but I don't think he'll ever live up to his potential at this stage.
 
Martial was by far the best of the front 3 tonight
 
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