Harry Maguire | Signed

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JPRouve said:
But your point specifically mentioned naationalities, you didn't talk about PL players but English, British and Irish. If anything players from other leagues are routinely underrated with most leagues being deemed as beneaf premier league standard, it's done in every single threads whether we are talking about a player joining or leaving the PL. Like I said in a previous post, someone like Maguire basically has no CL/EL experience, he hasn't played against the best players on earth on a regular basis and it's true for pretty much every players that is outside the Top 6, these players are typically overrated in England and people over value their PL experience, you just have to look at the likes of Barkley or even Drinkwater who objectively had good seasons in midtable teams and deserved a chance at a higher level but the reality is that competing for CL football is a different world and players that are in that race are judged differently, same is true for Evans or Keane who are good PL players and have had good seasons but they weren't good enough for United's ambitions.

Maguire could be a success like many other players that I personally like but none of them guarantee you a thing, none of the players playing for midtable teams are close to be proven. PS: I know, I went on a tangent.
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I think I started the tangent to be fair. Somebody else mentioned English and I broadened it out to British and Irish players, as these are players most people are generally more familiar with before broadening it out even further. My point wasn't that other leagues players are beneath the Premier league standard or that playing in the premier league guarantees they will be a success, more that the less people know about a player the better they become. I remember a couple of years ago we were linked with a young winger playing in France and poster's get over excited about and absolutely certain he would solve our right wing problem, for you to say well actually he isn't that good yet and he plays best off the left. It just the certainty in which people hold their view without much foundation. I guess you hear the farmers league rubbish a lot and maybe thought that's what I was implying.

You probably have a higher chance of them settling in quicker then if they haven't moved from another country and culture, but even then we've had players who's families haven't liked Manchester and have still have performed (Vidic) even though it took a little time to settle. It's more about mentality and putting your personal life to one side and perform on the pitch, but then for every Vidic there is a David Unsworth would didn't want to commute from Liverpool to Birmingham.

Back to Maguire with posters giving 5 alternatives from 4 different leagues and yet the are absolutely certain that they the other player is cheaper, better and that they will come here at this time. Also not knowing Maguire is actually pretty good on the ball and passing yet happy to just say he's a carthorse. I'm unsure if we should sign him, I think he would be out best central defender but I'm uncomfortable with the amount he will cost, like pretty much every transfer, but try to find ways to justify it. I would prefer to pay less for him or pay a lot more for Varane and insane wages or take a chance that de Ligt will become a great player but they aren't options. I will just have to trust the manager/scouts that he is the best option even if they have done nothing yet to warrant any confidence yet.
 
Bratt said:
Correct!
This is from 2018
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I love these!
 
After looking at the Schar thread, I compared Maguire to Schar just because I could. Surprised to see Schar is better for interceptions & tackles.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
After looking at the Schar thread, I compared Maguire to Schar just because I could. Surprised to see Schar is better for interceptions & tackles.
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He's only got a rating 77 on Fifa index with potential of 80. Harry Maguire has a rating of 82 with potential of 85.

I must say it is easier to assess players this way. Why waste time by watching games.
 
£80M for Maguire is madness. There are better options that aren’t British. I don’t get this new commitment to sign British players.
 
Mark Pawelek said:
After looking at the Schar thread, I compared Maguire to Schar just because I could. Surprised to see Schar is better for interceptions & tackles.
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Schar actually looked impressive this season. Won't need to pay ridiculous sum for him too as Ashley is probably the worst owner in EPL.
 
Saf94 said:
In what way can we compensate for his lack of pace? Is Lindelof fast? Do we have a dm who will have the legs to cover? Our fullbacks will be high up the pitch how are they doing to cover? This literally makes no sense, feels like we’re trying to convince ourselves it will work when it’s plain to see he lacks crucial attributes we need, if we have to work so hard to compensate for him anyway is he worth it?
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We have fast fullbacks and still have Smalling, Bailly and Tuanzebe at the club. His lack of pace in a highline isn't an issue.

I guess you were against the signing of De Ligt due to his lack of pace?
 
lsd said:
He is nothing but a cart horse . Can people stop comparing him to Ferdinand?

At best he is another Phil Jones
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If people stop comparing him to Ferdinand will you stop writing bollox?
 
lsd said:
He is nothing but a cart horse . Can people stop comparing him to Ferdinand?

At best he is another Phil Jones
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Cart horse? You've either never seen him play or don't understand the term carthorse
 
MadDogg said:
I'd have to disagree with that. Jones obviously does make far too many mistakes, consistently one big one every few games. He'll have the occasional truly bad game, but most of the time they are decent performances that he screws up with that one big mistake. But Bailly over the last two seasons (and even most of his first season other than the first couple of months) has basically been 50/50 with his performances, good half the time and terrible the other half. And on those poor games he tends to make multiple mistakes and throws the entire defensive organisation out the window as the other defenders have no idea what he's going to do next.

If Bailly does actually turn it around, awesome. On his good days he's actually a very impressive defender. I've lost most of my hope for him though, and I think Ole feels the same.
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I think you almost alluded to it but its the fact Jones' error seem to lead directly to goals and cost us games that gives this perception. I've seen him be solid a few times but I've been willing for him to be sold for the last 4 or 5 years. Bailly is still fairly young and I think of the two he's the one for whom hope should not have run out.
 
Johan07 said:
That might be true, but we already have players in Bailly, Lindelof and Tuanzebe who I would argue would look equally as good at those players respective clubs. And as you say they are probably 2-3 years away from adapting to and performing in the PL.
Maguire is ready to slot right in at LCB besides Victor, which is his biggest upside right now for us. He is proven in the PL, that should not be frowned upon especially in the central positions.
You could say the same for Koulibaly or De Ligt because of their sheer quality. The players you list not so much, then I rather stick with what we have for now.
I dont think we will be buying a CB if its not one that is 95% sure to slot right into the team and perform right away. If that is the clubs position I kinda agree with it tbf.
And 70-80m? Maguire is still young for a CB and the English premium will still be there even if he should not make it here. Its not like we are going to lose 80m on him if he does not perform. We might get a ltb less, but it will not be money thrown at the wolves.
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I agree with the bolded part.

However I will never ever be convinced that Maguire for £80m is anything other than us having our pants pulled down.
 
I can’t see Woodward walk out of this without losing face.

If we are comfortable with £70m then another 10-15m can’t be the issue. I can only imagine that at this point we negotiate with Leicester about the details, all other options would be counter productive. I fully expect Harry Maguire to be a United player before the season starts.
 
He is good, but I don't think he is world class. Will he be world class at some point?

I hope so.
 
DeGea said:
He is good, but I don't think he is world class. Will he be world class at some point?

I hope so.
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Yeah I keep hoping that a potential move will bring him on further and he will relish the opportunity, however I do have serious concerns about the coaching at the club right now
 
Adnan said:
We have fast fullbacks and still have Smalling, Bailly and Tuanzebe at the club. His lack of pace in a highline isn't an issue.

I guess you were against the signing of De Ligt due to his lack of pace?
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But what does fast fullbacks do when they’re all the way up the pitch?

To play a high line you need the following qualities
- Good acceleration
- Intelligence and organisation
- Good on the ball to avoid the press and bring the ball out

These are the qualities we’ve been looking for in a CB. None of the 3 you mentioned have those qualities, there’s a reason why we never play a high line with Smalling, Bailly etc they aren’t good enough

Maguire is good on the ball for sure, i really doubt he has the acceleration / dynamism. I don’t know about the intelligence and organisation but I’ve never heard of him being the organiser / leader in the leiciester defence but I may be wrong.

I’m not saying he isn’t an upgrade on what we have just that he doesn’t have the full details of qualities to play the football we need and eventually we’ll have to replace him because of that
 
Mark Pawelek said:
Schar is about 2.5 to 3 aerials won per match. Maguire about twice that.
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Yeah, it's a shame. That's something we can't compromise on. I know we need a CB who can do both, which is rare, but we need someone who is dominant.
 
Saf94 said:
But what does fast fullbacks do when they’re all the way up the pitch?

To play a high line you need the following qualities
- Good acceleration
- Intelligence and organisation
- Good on the ball to avoid the press and bring the ball out

These are the qualities we’ve been looking for in a CB. None of the 3 you mentioned have those qualities, there’s a reason why we never play a high line with Smalling, Bailly etc they aren’t good enough

Maguire is good on the ball for sure, i really doubt he has the acceleration / dynamism. I don’t know about the intelligence and organisation but I’ve never heard of him being the organiser / leader in the leiciester defence but I may be wrong.

I’m not saying he isn’t an upgrade on what we have just that he doesn’t have the full details of qualities to play the football we need and eventually we’ll have to replace him because of that
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One of the fullbacks will always be positioned to get back in line with the CBs when we're without the ball. It's very rare that both would be caught out of position.

Axel is good on the ball and has excellent acceleration, so he ticks two of the conditions you've presented comfortably. Maguire is the one that will organise the defence being the more experienced. To say Axel has none of the 3 conditions you presented couldn't be further from the truth.
 
I agree that Ole should buy British players for example Maguire ,But if we had the full england team we wouldn't win a game.

I would buy too many British.

If AWB Maguire Smalling Shaw was our back 4 we would be relegated put a Sweedish man in the middle we would make top 4 , Too many British isn't good
 
devilish said:
Of course he was. You don't spend 30m on a player you play in the last 5 minutes.
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During the seasons with lvg and Jose he was used as a starter rather than a super sub. This coincided with our most successful period since Fergie left. Even in the games he came on in the last 5 mins he provided more than anyone else on the pitch.
 
AbusementPark said:
During the seasons with lvg and Jose he was used as a starter rather than a super sub. This coincided with our most successful period since Fergie left. Even in the games he came on in the last 5 mins he provided more than anyone else on the pitch.
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He was never good enough to be a first teamer. His time as a DM was so dreadful that even his former mate Osman commented about his clumbsyness as a DM. Meanwhile his performance as an AM were better but made United play as if they were Alladyce's Bolton. In the end Mourinho played him the way he can only be utilised at a top club ie as a beanpole to be thrown in the dying minutes of the game to head balls in the box.
 
Jimmy Skitz said:
Man City have Laporte, Stones and Otemendi under contract, they need at least 1 CB this summer
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I think Ferna will be emergency CB and we've Garcia who is supposedly going to be introduced to the first team this season.
 
Hawks2008 said:
I never said that, Maguire and Lindelof can play together. Having 2 centerbacks that are comfortable and composed on the ball would be better than just 1. Both are better than Smalling.
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You said that Smalling + 1 would get us the same problem. So isn't Smalling + Maguire suppose to be an improvement over Smalling + Lindelof?

Anyway. Keown, Vidic, Puyol, Chiellini, Materazzi are not famous as "comfortable and composed on the ball" CB. But their partners were.
 
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