Good point
Harry Maguire | Signed
- Thread starter davidmichael
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Laporte, VVD, Rudiger, Ald and Ver are all better.
Could be argued that Jonny Evans would offer more value for £££.
That's certainly true when a player is underperforming.
For instance, we can't get more than a few miillion for Darmian. But that's because he never plays. If Darmian had made 5 appearances for Porto, he'd be going for even less than he is from United. It just seems worse like it's us because we're on the receiving end.
The bottom line is that United don't sell players playing well, we only sell players playing badly*. That's why bids come in so low. The same can't be said for poor clubs trying to sell their best assets.
*Pogba is an exception, but then we're trying to fleece Real for a massive fee just as much as Portuguese clubs are trying to fleece us
I would be much more enthused by the prospect of Maguire if I hadn't watched him as much as I did last year. I will admit that I already had my doubts about him, so an inherent bias, but nothing I saw suggested that he is close to being a top class defender, let alone an elite one. Defender the key word, in that side of the game he had, to be generous, a very average season. Don't understand how anyone can think he is a great defender. Footballing ability yes, brave and adventurous on the ball, though his passing is not quite worth the hype, tendency to dwell on the ball can often lead to him making poor decisions and putting others in trouble. He excels in driving forward with the ball, though the other side of that is how badly he struggles to get back, meaning it could be an obvious opposition tactic to invite Maguire to come forward and utilize the space he opens when it breaks down.
Might be reading too much into this but Maguire has just liked a comment on his Instagram saying:
‘You will be a fans favourite at Manchester United’.
‘You will be a fans favourite at Manchester United’.
No-one’s compared him to Rio @Brophs. I had a debate with a poster who said Fergie would instead find/buy a Daniel James type of player himself rather than spend big to buy from a PL club.
I called it out as nonsense and said Maguire after the WC was similar to Rio after his WC when at Leeds. Player was cheaper before he went to Leeds, but SAF, as he tended to do, would happily let players mature in other PL teams before swooping in and flexing United’s muscles.
Really???
Also in the sense why buy anyone at all, all of our CB's are value for money definetly. Also all those players you mentioned came to PL at a good price too for them at the time.
Just seen that this is true
Any chance you could put a photo of it on the transfer gossip? I haven’t got a clue how you do it
Such an amazing piece of journalism and player knowledge. Seriously, why publish your opinion if you don’t actually know anything about the guy. Bizarre.That's an incredible piece that. Lists all the things Maguire is very good at, then says "he's not quick" and he's "not sure" about other stuff.
So not being quick but being very good at everything else is enough for him to say "I would avoid Harry Maguire at all costs" because he's "not sure" about the rest. What an absolute moron, at least be fecking sure as to what else you're saying he's not good at, just adding "I'm not sure" shows the incredible bias he has here.
Hilarious stuff
In a highpressing system. Which should be the way we aim to play.
If we are going to spend £60m+ on a central defender he should be better than Maguire. If we are going to play with a low block defend from crosses style of play, then he would fit, but not for that price.
Well in a high press Johnny Evans would be a disaster. So would KK. I don't understand the logic you are using. We need to buy defenders that fit the team so if we have to pay more than that's the reality. Saying we should get more bang for the buck just because are spending more doesn't makes much sense ( at least to me)
Is Harry Maguire a good defender - yes
Will he fit our system - yes
Will he be world-class - not really
In the end if Maguire and lindelof form a good partnership which results in fewer goals then I think that is worth more than extra 10-20m that we are paying
My point is that VVD and the keeper have improved them hugely.
Fabinho is a decent player, but he’s not the reason they’ve improved to the extent they have. It’s largely the same midfield none of whom are in my opinion any more than good players.
Look back at the great PL sides, and again, top sides around Europe over the years and you see solid defences with little rotation. We haven’t had the quality or consistency since Ferdinand and Vidic.
In an era where fullbacks provide width then obviously the midfield has to be up to the job but in my opinion you start at the back and work forward. To go into another season as we are would be criminal. Lindelof and Shaw are the best we have and should feature. The rest aren’t up to it.
Top teams press. Liverpool, City are great at it. It’s modern football. Players run more than ever.
We obviously need midfielders who can pass and dictate the play but my point was that with a poor defence behind, any midfielder is going to have to consider the extent to which they can get forward or play that kind of system.
A poor defence needs protecting and players will, naturally sit deeper. You then get the tumescent, slow build up game we saw under LVG and Mourinho. To play with pace, on the counter or pressing you need players in the opposing half confident that the players behind them are up to the job.
If you look at Herrera and pogba they have no problem pushing forward, they did it all the time. So it's complete nonsense. They couldn't keep the ball due to poor passing and movement.
Neither are as slow and imobile as Maguire. He is a sluggish tank.
We first need to identify what type of football that seems to be most successful in the world today. Then, if the club is not blind, adapt some variation of this style. Then identify which players in the club that are able or can adapt to this type and who can't. Then identify the players that will fit this type of football and try to aquire them.
And as far as i know, playing defensive low block football is not the best approach. Maguires main attribute is his ability on the ball and being good against crosses/set pieces, but this does not help when OGS is aiming for a high press counter attacking style. Basically a complete mismatch.
Yet, Juventus Plays that way, and their sluggish tank is even slower! Of course it could work With Maguire. All Depends who the rest are
Any chance you could put a photo of it on the transfer gossip? I haven’t got a clue how you do it
I only saw it on my phone sorry!
For those who say Maguire wouldn't fit our bid to be a high press team, how did City field Kompany or Stones every week, who are certainly not pace man?
As long as the rest of the defence is fast enough, it'd work.
As long as the rest of the defence is fast enough, it'd work.
City are a bit of an anomaly though. Much like us in recent history, teams are beaten before they even get on the pitch and don't even bother attacking with intent. Also peps teams generally have 60% plus possession every game and kick anyone who tries to break on them.
We are gonna get him i think. 65m plus some add ons i predict. Him and AWB and that's probably it
You can take my opinion about Koulibaly to the bank having watched him closely for some time now. He is very athletic, physical, adept at playing with both feet, very tall and dominant aerially, very good on the ball, pacy. He's basically got everything a modern CB should have in his locker.
He is world class and will settle our defense right from the off. I even rate him ahead of De Ligt but the reason why I'd rather have De Ligt is that I believe he has a higher ceiling and is much younger.
Fair comment.
The hits keep coming.
I disagree. Herrera isn’t a player who pushed on. Pogba does but doesn’t track back and that, in my opinion is a major failing in him as a player, but that’s a different issue.
You’re entitled to your opinion. I stand by mine. Without fullbacks providing width and a really solid pairing at centre half we’re miles off the top 4, let alone a title.
The chances of the club going into the season with a midfield who might be good enough to cover for the current options at the back are zero, for numerous reasons. Prioritising midfielders over dealing with years old issues in the back four would, in my opinion, have us exactly where we are now in 12 months time.
Well said.
Fast players have the advantage of recovery speed when the make an error. Good defenders shouldn’t need that if their positional play is good.
In my opinion last season was very clear that we are struggling to play from the back. No one is capable to do the job which is why Pogba tends to drop deeper to play from the back. We signed Fred for the job but he was very clumsy.
The deeper Pogba plays the less effective he is but if he doesn’t drop back to get the ball we have no one can deliver the ball forward. So, to make sure Pogba doesn’t drop back so often and focus his task more on delivering the final ball, what we need is deeplying playmaker & ball playing centre back.
Maguire is one of defender who is capable to break the line with his passing and we need that type of centre back right now.
Hopefully we can sweet the deal for both party by giving them one of our centre back bar from Axel & Lindelof.
The deeper Pogba plays the less effective he is but if he doesn’t drop back to get the ball we have no one can deliver the ball forward. So, to make sure Pogba doesn’t drop back so often and focus his task more on delivering the final ball, what we need is deeplying playmaker & ball playing centre back.
Maguire is one of defender who is capable to break the line with his passing and we need that type of centre back right now.
Hopefully we can sweet the deal for both party by giving them one of our centre back bar from Axel & Lindelof.
If we willing to spend 80m on a defender, I am sure there's plenty of better options.
I mean, 80m should get you any world class defender you want. VVD only cost Liverpool 75m, and I don't think De Ligt would cost significantly more than 80m. And we are talking about 2 of the best/most wanted defender in this world.
I mean, 80m should get you any world class defender you want. VVD only cost Liverpool 75m, and I don't think De Ligt would cost significantly more than 80m. And we are talking about 2 of the best/most wanted defender in this world.
We’ve done this to death, instead of making a blanket statement, give some names?
The thing is, no-one ever can, they are either more expensive than Maguire else they’re completely unproven at the level.
The world record for a defender (currently best defender in the world) is 75m a year ago. So you think a new world record 80m can't buy anyone better than Maguire?
Disagree totally. If you think just signing new defenders and a winger will make us champions while still playing with the likes of matic and pogba in the midfield who provides no protection then you'll be up for a big surprise.
Go for toby, or go big on koulibaly. Inter wants lukaku we could do with srikinar guy.
Skinier is not as good and nowhere near good enough on the ball compared to Maguire.
Koulibaly would cost more.
Toby, short term option and I suspect he was a Sanchez-esque deal somewhere.
But who?
VVD certaintly wasn’t the best defender in the world when Liverpool bought him - but they went and bought the best player available and paid a big price for him.
Just because Kepa is the most expensive keeper doesn’t mean he will be the best etc etc.
Supply vs demand - I keep seeing people post that we should be able to buy someone better than Maguire, but no names - often blaming Utd’s ‘scouting dept’, as if there are a load of Vidic’s waiting to be unearthed in random leagues across the world.
So still no names?
The fact that VVD went for 75m means absolutely jack shit, give us names. If anything Maguire is a bigger name now than VVD was then, VVD was a enormous fee for a Southampton centre half. And seriously man, how much would VVD be worth now? £150m maybe? I think more likely £200m.
And remember we live in times in which Felix is joining Ath. Madrid for €120m after a handfull of games.
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Toby - Old & will be asking high wages. If you prefer that, alright then. I think the club is trying to avoid another Sanchez.
Koulibaly- £130m clause
Skriniar won’t be part of Lukaku deal. They rate Skriniar very high and pretty sure Conte wants him to be part of his back 3.
he liked this comment yesterday, is it by mistake too. I think he is doing it on purpose.
You are both right and wrong!
Liverpool has two glaring deficiencies in their team, in an otherwise bery good squad. They went out and bought the best keeper and best centre back that was available. They didn’t faff around buying squad players or players with potential - they addressed their problems.
Clearly Utd have more than a few issues - and so just buying 2 players won’t make a difference. However, buying the best available players rather than average squad players who are only likely to incrementally improve the team by a small margin is clearly a better strategy, buying the likes of Fred for £52m, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Fellaini, Matic and Herrera in midfield has not improved our midfield in 5 years (not a single one of those was a young player, they were all at least 24). That’s maybe £180m of average midfield squad players we bought - wasted money. The only player that made a difference was Pogba - a player we spent big on, and was the best available.
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