[Champ]

Every time Maguire does something like this (and he often makes the exact split second decision, with the same result, so it’s definitely a preferred trait rather than panicking) someone always pipes up with the “he did the right thing because someone else should’ve picked up the space that he left” defence and it’s utter bollocks. Look at the space he leaves, how can you possibly think that that area is less dangerous if someone runs into it than having the ball 20 yards out with midfielders tracking back, a settled defence and Maguire in position to cover a potential shot from outside the box? If a player having the ball in that position where he’s receiving it is a high calibre scoring chance then every game would end 7-7 because players end up with the ball in that position tons of times every game.

Both England and Manchester United have shown over an extended period that they cannot and do not adequately cover the centre half areas that his majesty Harry Maguire sees fit to vacate at his own choosing, yet we have people who still think that he should vacate obviously dangerous areas because he “should expect someone else to cover the space”. How much evidence does he need that the space will not be covered? 10 conceded goals? 15? 100? At which point will you ever admit that “hmm maybe he shouldn’t be doing that”?

How about he just doesn’t vacate it considering he’s not quick enough to a) do what he intends to do, ie intercept the player receiving the ball, or failing that, foul him to stop the attack, or b) get back in position in case a) fails (which is very often).

The situation is, step out or allow an attacking player ten yards and time and space on the at the edge of the box.

Not sure that's particularly difficult to grasp, but that was the situation.
The ironic thing was Havertz scored from a similar position from where the player picked up the ball later on, mainly down to having time and space on the ball, a lack of communication from Shaw and Maguire, also poor tracking back from midfielders.

So I'd implore you to have a look again and re-evaluate, as I think you'll see what I mean.

 

[lsd]

Pogba and Rashford have been abused and hated on to levels Maguire could not even fathom and it made no difference how they performed they still received irrational abuse whether it was online or from professional analysts.

Yet you get idiots like Luke Shaw saying he had never known a player get criticised as much as Maguire.

It's absolutely laughable the delusion surrounding him.


Maguire has been defended to the hilt by so many people desperate for him to not be labelled a flop. If he could defend as well as his fan boys there wouldn't be be any problem.

Unlike Pogba and Rashford the only criticisms Maguire has received have been down to his performances which have not been good enough.

Yet he cannot accept that and it's just excuse after excuse and him blaming everyone else for making him look bad.

 

[Foxbatt]

The situation is, step out or allow an attacking player ten yards and time and space on the at the edge of the box.

Not sure that's particularly difficult to grasp, but that was the situation.
The ironic thing was Havertz scored from a similar position from where the player picked up the ball later on, mainly down to having time and space on the ball, a lack of communication from Shaw and Maguire, also poor tracking back from midfielders.

So I'd implore you to have a look again and re-evaluate, as I think you'll see what I mean.

He should have never committed to it because he was never going to get the ball. As for the player lining up and taking a shot, it was a further few yards away than where the other player took a shot. The further the player taking the shot, the more time the keeper has.
Every time a goal is scored the defending team makes a mistake according to Cruijff.
It's ridiculous to defend Maguire in this instance.

 

[Tap]

No. It's because he had his own fans backing him. That's how he got through the abuse after the missed penalty in the Champuons League final. Which I might add was nowhere near the level of abuse Maguire is getting from his own fans

If Maguire had consistently put in John Terry like performances for Man United, rest assured the fans would be backing him. There is little ammo to criticise him with anyway.

As to why Terry got the support from the Chelsea fans after his penalty miss, the other posters have explained it well. His miss was not the decisive one anyway.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Rashford has had more abuse than Maguire if were covering the last few years.
From the first half of last year (2021) we got this:
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/man...bused-footballers-twitter/blt083edc7881436168

Maguire is second, Rashford is third.
~Yeah Bruno and Fred were wrong and I looked at the wrong list for that, so ill admit to that being incorrect. I didnt source that correctly.

In 2020, Rashford was second highest athlete (not even just football) to get online abuse:
https://tribuna.com/en/news/manutd-...most-abused-athletes-on-social-media-in-2020/
Maguire isnt on that list.


This isnt a competition anyway, so its going against the point.

If however you want to prove that Maguire gets more abuse than Rashford, im happy to be proven wrong. But again, you say 'we are the biggest abusers'. Who is we?
United fans? United online fans? Its not match going fans. You cant lump the whole global fanbase together. Youve thrown out a statement with nothing to back it up (context or otherwise)

Whatever you need to tell yourself to keep from feeling guilty about your online bullying

 

[SadlerMUFC]

This whole post is a car crash comedy.

The best part is you can’t understand why Harry got dropped.

Who got pulled vs Brentford at halftime?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

You aren't even trying to argue in good faith. He was terrible against Brentford (De Gea was only worse IMO) and at fault for the 4th goal for allowing Toney to run in behind him. It clear to anyone who has watched recently that backline is much more mobile and the ball moves much quicker.

Don't understand your defense at all cost of Maguire. It's odd.

I have clearly stated that I have no problem with Martinez and Varane moving forward as they have looked really good together. However, if you are being honest with yourself and not just looking for people to scapegoat, Martinez was the one at blame for a goal in that game (3rd one). And if you are seriously blaming Maguire for the 4th goal then all you are doing is proving my point about him being the scapegoat...

 

[Lyng]

Who got pulled vs Brentford at halftime?

Who started the next match?

 

[roonster09]

This whole post is a car crash comedy.

The best part is you can’t understand why Harry got dropped.

Maybe it's a trick question, anyways if anyone still wants to know why Harry was dropped, it's because 'he was fecking shit for a year'.

 

[Tap]

1. He said doesn't read social media

So don't know where you get the idea he's dug a hole as he's not blamed anyone else, or you got some quotes from Harry himself blaming others?

So he is not exposed to the bulk of the criticism or “abuse” as his supporters call it.

So why do the Maguire stans keep on making the point that he is exposed to unprecedented levels of “abuse”

Whatever he is going through now is nothing compared to what Beckham and young Ronaldo had been through (and successfully overcame)

 

[roonster09]

So he is not exposed to the bulk of the criticism or “abuse” as his supporters call it.

 

[Chief123]

Who got pulled vs Brentford at halftime?

Who got dropped for 4 games and we looked much better ever since?

 

[tenpoless]

He looks just awkward as Fellaini when receiving a pass.

 

[Champ]

He should have never committed to it because he was never going to get the ball. As for the player lining up and taking a shot, it was a further few yards away than where the other player took a shot. The further the player taking the shot, the more time the keeper has.
Every time a goal is scored the defending team makes a mistake according to Cruijff.
It's ridiculous to defend Maguire in this instance.

So the mistake wasn't the midfielders not tracking their runners?

I'm alarmed there's so many people who are ok with midfielders not tracking back or following their runners.

I'm not sure who Cruijff is but Johan Cruyff once said 'goalies are my first attacker, striker are my first defender', I'm pretty sure he be aghast at seeing midfielders allow deep runs literally right past them.

 

[Sylar]

guys a fecking joke, Rashford obviously receives more abuse, got fecking hammered with racial abuse from scum after the Euros. He’s just venting cause its hurting so bad that daddy is shit

Yeah, just seen his latest reply after providing him with evidence for the last couple of years and he posts some unrelated nonsense


Guess he's one of those jokes that don't like to be challenged with facts. Oh well, I tried.

Also agree with your post @AlPistacho .
Players should not be free from criticism. Maguire has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way because it seems he's quick to downplay criticism or shift it away to others

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I do feel sorry for him, as I would for anyone in the glare that he finds himself now. I can't see a way back for him really, not at the top level. I look at John Stones, when he looked down and out. I have huge respect for the way he turned it round but his baseline of talent, speed, technique was still there. Confidence was all that was missing. I feel Harry's potential journey back has a lot less of a foundation for lift off.

But at his best Maguire showed he was better than Stones so surely that’s a good example. I mean we pretty much all see Maguire be the best England CB for years and he played alongside stones. Feels like people are just rewriting old narratives just to suit current ones.

 

[Fortitude]

So the mistake wasn't the midfielders not tracking their runners?

I'm alarmed there's so many people who are ok with midfielders not tracking back or following their runners.

I'm not sure who Cruijff is but Johan Cruyff once said 'goalies are my first attacker, striker are my first defender', I'm pretty sure he be aghast at seeing midfielders allow deep runs literally right past them.

I really hope you're doing this on purpose and chuckling away at the in-joke.

This thread is The Twilight Zone.

 

[Pughnichi]

I actually find some of his interviews delusional. Recently he’s suggested…

"So, that is the reason they do it, they like the clicks, and things like that, but I went into the Euros after an eight-week injury, and did not play one game, and got into the team of the tournament.’

its a calculated response to a question, almost trying to justify himself by telling the world just how good he is to still get in team of the tournament.

instead of defending himself (which he’s got history for) he should perhaps be a little humble, acknowledge he’s not quite at it…and work damn hard to get back to some level of acceptable form.

 

[Zippycup]

If Maguire had consistently put in John Terry like performances for Man United, rest assured the fans would be backing him. There is little ammo to criticise him with anyway.

I think I've said this about 10 times now.

The original question had nothing to do with the players ability. It was do with the support of the home fans helping
Terry get over the miss and the abuse from rival fans (not home fans) that followed the Champions League final
The support of the crowd allowed him to quickly recover from it. The key word here is 'support'

Again. It's nothing to do with the players ability.

His miss was not the decisive one anyway.

Are we talking about a different game?
He scores. They win. Thats pretty decisive to me

 

[phelans shorts]

I partly blame the pundits for that tbh, he was one of the most protected players in recent memory by the media for whatever reason over the last few years while many of his squadmates got absolutely slaughtered at the same time.

Just look at how quickly they were waiting and ready to jump all over Martinez's back after the first 2 matches of the season in comparison...

Some of the criticism can be OTT when it takes a personal nature, as with criticism of any player, but I also think there's been a reaction to the way he's been handled with kid gloves in the press that plays a part to how fans perceive him.

There was a bomb threat at his house. That’s not a natural correction, that’s just feckers being cnuts

 

[Luka Mora]

So he is not exposed to the bulk of the criticism or “abuse” as his supporters call it.

So why do the Maguire stans keep on making the point that he is exposed to unprecedented levels of “abuse”

Whatever he is going through now is nothing compared to what Beckham and young Ronaldo had been through (and successfully overcame)

When did Beckham Ronaldo receive bomb threats and booed by united fans?

Are you seriously trying to argue he's not been getting abuse? Did you miss last season, where he was walking back to the team bus and our own fans were screaming at him and calling him a wanker? Then in pre season game getting booed? So you're weak argument he isn't exposed to it doesn't hold up

And why call people who oust abuse as stans? I don't rate Maguire that highly, but what has been going on these last few months, while he hasn't even featured much this season and when he's been played he's carried an injury, is perverse abuse which people like you seem to get a kick out.

 

[Zippycup]

The one thing I will add to this thread is that so many people wrote off McTominay.


Have a read of the thread where someone asks what clubs would be in for him should he be put up for sale. It ranges from low Championship to low Premier League clubs.
I doubt there's many who would say the same now given his current form.

Confidence is everything in a player. Without it the best players on the world look terrible.

We will need Maguire at some stage this season and I'd much rather have a half confident Maguire over the shell of a man we have now.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Who got dropped for 4 games and we looked much better ever since?

To which I have clearly said I have no problem with Martinez and Varrane moving forward as they have looked really good together. The point though was that Martinez was lucky to get that chance as it was he that was struggling in our early games, not Maguire. This is why I don't understand the hate that is thrown at Maguire and how that toxicity has now carried over to the England supporters...

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Who started the next match?

Yay my stalker is here.

 

[OL29]

To which I have clearly said I have no problem with Martinez and Varrane moving forward as they have looked really good together. The point though was that Martinez was lucky to get that chance as it was he that was struggling in our early games, not Maguire. This is why I don't understand the hate that is thrown at Maguire and how that toxicity has now carried over to the England supporters...

Come on now, I don't like the abuse he's getting either but Maguire's been atrocious for over a season, and that's ignoring his patchy form in previous seasons. You can't seriously believe he started the season well for us?

 

[DJ Jeff]

Pogba and Rashford have been abused and hated on to levels Maguire could not even fathom and it made no difference how they performed they still received irrational abuse whether it was online or from professional analysts.

Yet you get idiots like Luke Shaw saying he had never known a player get criticised as much as Maguire.

It's absolutely laughable the delusion surrounding him.


Maguire has been defended to the hilt by so many people desperate for him to not be labelled a flop. If he could defend as well as his fan boys there wouldn't be be any problem.

Unlike Pogba and Rashford the only criticisms Maguire has received have been down to his performances which have not been good enough.

Yet he cannot accept that and it's just excuse after excuse and him blaming everyone else for making him look bad.

Maguire has taken far, far more abuse than Pogba and Rashford combined

 

[Chief123]

To which I have clearly said I have no problem with Martinez and Varrane moving forward as they have looked really good together. The point though was that Martinez was lucky to get that chance as it was he that was struggling in our early games, not Maguire. This is why I don't understand the hate that is thrown at Maguire and how that toxicity has now carried over to the England supporters...

So do you accept ETH has dropped Maguire because he feels Martinez and Varane are better than Maguire? But you’re still scratching your head not knowing why Maguire has been dropped?

Your defiant defence and unconditional excuses for everything Maguire related is actually quite cringe at this point. It’s like you are so deeply invested into flying that flag, you’d look a fool if you backed down now.

It was interesting to see you disappear off the scene when Martinez and Varane were performing brilliantly in Maguire’s absence yet you didn’t have any praise for them. And then you accuse everyone else of having an agenda. Amazing.

 

[Woodzy]

A move abroad probably in his best interest atm. Terrible form or not the abuse he’s getting is a bit much and going to be hard for him to recover from.

 

[Lyng]

Yay my stalker is here.

I see you still dont have any valid points to make...

 

[lsd]

Maguire has taken far, far more abuse than Pogba and Rashford combined

Not even close there was a poll recently of who gets the most abuse online worldwide and Lebron James was top with Rashford second.

Rashford would get criticised no matter how he performed and to far worse degrees than Maguire

If anything no player gets defended as much as Maguire. The slightest criticism is met with howls of disbelief

 

[lsd]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gi...shford-the-worlds-20-most-abused-athletes/amp

 

[Zippycup]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gi...shford-the-worlds-20-most-abused-athletes/amp

That's over a year old.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/62390281.amp

 

[Zippycup]

For anyone who doesn't think the support of the fans means anything.

Varane was just as culpable as any other player last season but didn't recieve half the criticism others did. Now he is flying and is arguably one of our best players this season.

Fan support can make the difference, even to a player who has won it all.

 

[Chief123]

For anyone who doesn't think the support of the fans means anything.

Varane was just as culpable as any other player last season but didn't recieve half the criticism others did. Now he is flying and is arguably one of our best players this season.

Fan support can make the difference, even to a player who has won it all.

Ability is even more important. Varane is significantly more talented than Maguire.

Fans don’t choose not to support someone for no reason. Fans are frustrated because Maguire has been terrible for a long time.

Having the fans support isn’t going to make him turn quicker, react quicker, run faster and have greater awareness of the play around him. Maguire at his peak is not good enough for the style ETH wants to play.

 

[Zippycup]

Ability is even more important. Varane is significantly more talented than Maguire.

Fans don’t choose not to support someone for no reason. Fans are frustrated because Maguire has been terrible for a long time.

Having the fans support isn’t going to make him turn quicker, react quicker, run faster and have greater awareness of the play around him. Maguire at his peak is not good enough for the style ETH wants to play.

Having fan support will make any player better.
Regardless of Maguires ability or if he fits into a ETH team makes little to no difference at this current time. Maguire is here for the season and he will be needed at some point during it.

What would you rather have. A confident Magiure or an player so void of confidence that the last place he wants to be is on a football pitch.

 

[Chief123]

Having fan support will make any player better.
Regardless of Maguires ability or if he fits into a ETH team makes little to no difference at this current time. Maguire is here for the season and he will be needed at some point during it.

What would you rather have. A confident Magiure or an player so void of confidence that the last place he wants to be is on a football pitch.

Football players aren’t going to get cuddles and warm feelings from fans when they aren’t playing well. It’s upto the player to get fans back on side with good performances. I can guarantee you if Maguire was performing he would have plenty of support.

But when he’s clearly not performing and showing he doesn’t even have the ability to perform at the level required, the support of fans is going to dwindle. It’s not like he’s had a couple of bad games. It’s been going on for a heck of a long time. It’s not even the fact he’s performing below his best, it’s the fact his best isn’t really good enough.

 

[Zippycup]

Football players aren’t going to get cuddles and warm feelings from fans when they aren’t playing well. It’s upto the player to get fans back on side with good performances. I can guarantee you if Maguire was performing he would have plenty of support.

But when he’s clearly not performing and showing he doesn’t even have the ability to perform at the level required, the support of fans is going to dwindle. It’s not like he’s had a couple of bad games. It’s been going on for a heck of a long time. It’s not even the fact he’s performing below his best, it’s the fact his best isn’t really good enough.

It's crazy how so many fans aren't seeing the obvious.
Yes, I couldn't agree more in that a player plays well then the crowd sing his name and all is good. His confidence grows. It's natural and something that's been happening since time.

I also agree that a player has to play his part in getting fans onside by performing well, but with Maguire he is dammed when he does and dammed when he doesn't. No matter what he does he is criticised.

Even when he plays well he is criticised. It's near impossible to get fans onside when the narrative is so restrictive that should a fan defend him, their views are mocked in droves, as this thread alone proves.

 

[Rolaholic]

Maguire has taken far, far more abuse than Pogba and Rashford combined

That's absolute revisionist bullshit

Also Maguire's criticism has been near exclusively regarding his performance/form. He hasn't ever had his character assassinated like those 2, not even when he had legal trouble unlike those 2.

 

[Chief123]

It's crazy how so many fans aren't seeing the obvious.
Yes, I couldn't agree more in that a player plays well then the crowd sing his name and all is good. His confidence grows. It's natural and something that's been happening since time.

I also agree that a player has to play his part in getting fans onside by performing well, but with Maguire he is dammed when he does and dammed when he doesn't. No matter what he does he is criticised.

Even when he plays well he is criticised. It's near impossible to get fans onside when the narrative is so restrictive that should a fan defend him, their views are mocked in droves, as this thread alone proves.

The bolded highlights where the problem lies. Like I said even if Maguire plays to his absolute best of his ability, I like many other fans don’t believe it’s good enough. His confidence is not the limitation right now. It’s his ability. He’s simply not as good as we had hoped.

What I genuinely believe is creating a huge divide amongst the fan base is his anomaly first season with us where he did ok based on the way we were playing. I accept in a deep lying counter attacking team, Maguire would actually be useful to some extent. That’s how we were playing under Ole. But if we aspire to be a top team, we simply can’t set up as a counter attack team as it’ll only be useful in about 6 games in the season against top teams. Maguire is not good enough to play the kind of football ETH wants to play.

We can give him all the support in the world but he’s not suited to what we need. It’s honestly best for his career and mental health that he moves on to a team where he can offer something suited to his abilities.

 

[Chief123]

Maguire has taken far, far more abuse than Pogba and Rashford combined

I’ve very rarely if ever seen Maguire get “abuse” in the manner Rashford and Pogba got.

I only ever see fans commenting on Maguire being shit and memes of all his mistakes.