Both were clowns. I've never seen 2 CBs consistently post next to no impact on so many conceded goals. Take both off the pitch and that attack plays almost the same.
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 31
- Clean sheets
- 17
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Status
That is why our goals conceded per 90s stat was mid-table level whenever we have Lindelof+Maguire pairing.
We finished 2nd and 3rd with those players. Nowhere near mid table.
I'd say it's the opposite, the Maguire Myth, if someone else could have done better then Maguire cannot be questioned. Team defending, we can highlight his part in the problem. It's not a big deal as an isolated incident but is a big deal for an individual as a recurring one. This was also the same goal in preseason that saw him dropped so Ten Hag doesn't look to be buying the logic either. One would need to be okay with leaking goals against the simplest breakaways to be alright with this. For those that do they will continue to wonder why he's last in the pecking order.
His time here has come and gone. I wish it had worked out, I feel bad that he’s become some meme generator. But night and day difference him and Martinez and Varane. Find myself nervous for Maguire when he plays, like he’s my kid. Then you watch Varane and it’s just obvious there’s a gulf in quality. We should always be on the lookout for better players, and our players recognize that reality too. He’s nowhere near as good as M & V, every man and his dog knows it, so surely he will self-select himself out, and look for a transfer.
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I like the guy but hes simply nowhere near the player we need to play the sort of football we want to play. His pace is shockingly bad and his speed of turn and agility is dire. He would be fine for a counter attacking side that doesn't invite teams to break on them.
The difference in every way between Maguire and Martinez is stark. Martinez is quick, aggressive, light on his feet, doesn't dive in and positionally good. Maguire is none of these things and I would be stunned if hes not gone in the summer.
The difference in every way between Maguire and Martinez is stark. Martinez is quick, aggressive, light on his feet, doesn't dive in and positionally good. Maguire is none of these things and I would be stunned if hes not gone in the summer.
what has he done to deserved to be in the England squad for World Cup ???
bro, prepared to get stone cold stunner !!!!
I've always said this about Maguire that whenever we concede a goal more often than not he is nowhere to be seen.
For some reason this has convinced some people that it's not his fault and the did nothing wrong for the goal.
It doesn't seem to hit home he is nowhere to be seen because once again he has been caught miles out of position and never has the speed not sense to get back to where he should be.
Instead we just get posts from people saying he didn't put a foot wrong and the fault is instead Dalot, Shaw or whoever else has ran 50 yards trying to cover the huge hole Maguire left
For some reason this has convinced some people that it's not his fault and the did nothing wrong for the goal.
It doesn't seem to hit home he is nowhere to be seen because once again he has been caught miles out of position and never has the speed not sense to get back to where he should be.
Instead we just get posts from people saying he didn't put a foot wrong and the fault is instead Dalot, Shaw or whoever else has ran 50 yards trying to cover the huge hole Maguire left
First goal is on Fred for me, goes charging into a stupid situation and losing the ball, then both him.and McT stopped looking for handball. Left the back line totally exposed to a simple pass, we've seen it time and time again with these too clowns in midfield, one pass and the opposition is straight at the back 4.
Second is on Malacia for being caught miles out of position leaving the whole left side for young to run into. Then you have Fred sauntering back and neither Lindelof or McT can decide to which one of them is gonna close Young down leaving him free to pick out a cross.
This comment can only be related to the first goal, in which Dalot isn't sprinting back because Maguire has left a huge hole but instead because he's over-committed going forward. Maguire is trying to balance covering Ings and Watkins, and honestly probably made the right call in going for Ings since he was more central.
no he didn't make the right call in going for the central guy when doing so would leave his own man one-on one with the keeper. It was a ball chasing error. Under no circumstance should you leave the bigger danger to mark the lesser one. Priorities much? This is so Maguire, getting sucked high trying to mark two different people and leaving himself in the worst possible position to recover. You'd think a player with pace issues wouldn't want to make his own life harder. Then he chased him and ended up covering no one.
Yeah, I agree with this summary. Blame is allocated correctly.
Of course, that doesn't change the fact that Maguire's overall performance was absolutely horrific. On another day he would have been sent off too. He also seems to spread panic and uncertainty to everyone around him. The exact opposite of what a supposed defensive leader is supposed to do.
Lucky not to get a second yellow.
He also looked a lot slower than usual last night, or maybe because I haven't really seen him pkay in so long that I've forgotten how lumbering he really is. Southgate might need to add a fourth CB to his team for the WC to protect him even more this time round.
Yes to this. Where the hell was he? Pee break? I was looking for him when they were showing the goals from all angles, I couldn't find him.
Brutal lads and not a good football player at all. Hope we get rid of him in summer. I shit myself everytime he is on ball when we are trying to play out from back. One stage last night he was looking for ball in the centre of the pitch with his back to play and think 3 villa players around him, and they just took the ball off him. Not mobile enough and lacks pace and awareness of whats around him.
Any decent cente backs out of contract next summer who we could bring in to cover both Varane or Martinez if missing.
Any decent cente backs out of contract next summer who we could bring in to cover both Varane or Martinez if missing.
When you want your fullbacks to push up and contribute in attack as much as Ten Hag wants to, then you have to depend on your centre midfielders and centre backs to be able to deal with situations like the goals that Villa scored from.
Unfortunately, Fred, McTominay, Maguire and Lindelof are all not consistently capable of dealing with these situations. Make that what you will.
Unfortunately, Fred, McTominay, Maguire and Lindelof are all not consistently capable of dealing with these situations. Make that what you will.
HM hasn't improved/adapted well to ETH system i'm hopeful the clock is ticking.
Think he'll perform well at the World Cup, being in a back 3 and the slower pace of football is more suited to him. Hopefully this can raise his stock for the shop window so we can sell for decent (ish) money.
Slightly to the right of the centre circle, believe it or not. I know he’s one of these new-fangled inverted full-backs but he does sometimes end up absolutely fecking miles away from where we need him most.
The most expensive defender in history.
This has been the elephant in the room for years. Past Managers seem to think let’s get a couple of expensive signings up front and everting will just pan out. Ten Haag is the first manager to actually address the core problem and we have seen a vast improvement of how Utd now play as a team rather than relying on a individual to get is out of jail.
If Maguire follows Watkins as you suggested he should then he leaves Ings wide open in a central area with acres of space to run into. That's the point I'm making - there isn't a good option available to Maguire here because there are no full-backs or midfielders cutting off passing lanes available to Ramsey or picking up any other players.
Of course he should leave Ings, he isn't as much an imminent threat as the whole person about to make an uncontested run to our goal. There were 2 or 3 players who could have caught up to Ings, there was no one who could have held up Watkins. He's meant to stay with Watkins, it's not even on the same plane of danger. The latter is an uncontested one on one situation. You know how cracked his decision making must be not to even realise this? "I let the striker run because I was worried about the player 10 yards away", the answer to this is in what followed his decision, he got caught in between both players in no man's land but not before he had so kindly played Watkins onside and rolled him a red carpet to our goal.
Edit Oh Lord, I even just saw the goal again and it's worse than I remember. The third man wasn't even part of the play, he was coming from an offside position. Maguire really sold out on good defensive positioning because an offside player cracked his focus. There's that brilliant tactical acumen that allows him to go round tackling teammates.
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Can we please cut this "Ings was offside" nonsense out? Watch the goal over again and it's pretty blatantly obvious that Ings is well onside when Ramsey makes the pass to Watkins.
As for who Maguire should cover, I don't feel it's nearly as clear cut as you make out. Your argument that Watkins is the player with momentum has merit but I would point out that if Maguire sticks with Watkins, Ings is left with an awful lot of room to work with in the middle of the pitch and it's a fairly big gamble to assume that someone is going to get back to him.
To be clear, I'm not actually absolving Maguire of blame for this goal. I just think his issue here is a failure to turn quick enough rather than poor judgement/positioning. I don't really think his positioning is the issue in this scenario given that Dalot is completely out of position himself and, in classic McFred fashion, neither midfielder is offering proper protection to the backline. When a defender is left covering two players there's always going to be space for opponents to exploit - the same thing happened with Lindelöf on the second goal.
Yeah and Ronaldo was world class a couple of years ago. Surely players can't get worse right?
Ings was coming back from offside, it's not entire nonsense. Ings was well onside at the point of the pass; he wasn't a threat with his lack of pace and turning circle of a bus. He's easily covered by Dalot. At what point does/should HM scan to identify threats, it's one heck of a gamble to not identify Watkins as a threat and or leave Watkins free given you'll get outrun. He's not left covering two players, it's 2 v 2 but ings isn't a threat
Every single time Dalot gets forward when Maguire is next to him we get exposed. He makes it impossible to play the way ETH wants us to play. If he starts you basically need Dalot to stay flat with him which then kills our attack as well.
He is decent enough if we're sitting back but he really just isn't ever going to cut it when we try to play a high line and be on the attack.
He is decent enough if we're sitting back but he really just isn't ever going to cut it when we try to play a high line and be on the attack.
Couldnt we just lock this thread.
It's useless. Just like him.
It's highly doubtful that this player has any defenders left.
The consensus has been made, he's probably one of, if not the worst player ever to play and c9aptain our club.
Like somebody mentioned, lets hope for a good WC so we can unload him.
It's useless. Just like him.
It's highly doubtful that this player has any defenders left.
The consensus has been made, he's probably one of, if not the worst player ever to play and c9aptain our club.
Like somebody mentioned, lets hope for a good WC so we can unload him.
Nice try, but Ings couldn't receive the ball when Maguire left the scorer to chase him. They were not of equal priority. Common sense dictates the player who was yet to reestablish onside position isn't the same threat level as the whole player behind him, running to our goal for an uncontested 1v1. By time watkins was safely established anyone could have picked him up. Hell even if no one did Villa would still have had a lot of work to do from that position.
(I'm not even going to bother engaging whether or not you think ings would hypothetically have been called offside at the exact moment the pass to another player was made. In my view it would likely have been called offside if it were made to him, but you know what? that's irrrelevant because he was 1000% offside when Maguire opened our defence. The gamble makes no sense. Maguire left a 1v1 threat to prioritise a player who hadn't yet reestablished himself onside. That's a foolish decison tree to be rationalising.)
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Whether or not Ings was offside at that point is irrelevant because Ramsey has a lot of time to make the pass. It'd be entirely daft to just forget about Ings in the centre, assuming he's just going to stand offside. (He wasn't facing Ronaldo after all!)
Again, Maguire's choice is between covering Ings in the centre of the pitch and leaving Watkins free or covering Ings and leaving Watkins free further left. Neither option is a good one, and the centre backs are in this position because Dalot has gone needlessly far forward and neither McTominay nor Fred are protecting the backline.
No he didn't, there were 3 players on his tail. They had practically caught him. A millisecond extra and they would have mobbed him. There was no time to make Ings a credible threat, or more importantly, a threat bigger than letting someone else go 1v1. I have to say it again but this gamble to leave watkins and chase Ings makes no sense from Maguire's position.
This is even being overanalysed like some mega mind calculation when it was just a player with the focus of a golden retriever going ballchasing.
Yeah my bad, I phrased it wrong. I meant to say Ramsey had a lot of space to run into, which actually adds an extra layer of difficulty to the centre backs' job since now they have the additional prospect of a midfielder running at them.
I've watched the goal over umpteen times now and I'm pretty confident in my conclusion that McTominay and Fred are the primary problem in this goal. They're both chasing the ball, as they so often do, and it gives Ramsey acres of space to work with and ultimately opens up the team to the counter. My issue with Maguire would be his lack of speed getting back rather than his positioning, which I think is primarily a result of the midfield's error.
Does this guy get blamed for every goal we let in?
It's beyond a parody now these people that constantly blame Maguire for things that are not his fault.
It's beyond a parody now these people that constantly blame Maguire for things that are not his fault.
It's all good. Think this is the saturation point where we just agree to disagree.
Never said that. Just stating facts mate.
Technically he’s okay, only problem is his lack of pace and slow decision making which has been exposed on countless occasions.
Your point was that they aren't mid table standard because of the performance of our teams from 3 years ago. My point was that things can change heavily with regards to players in that amount of time
Ah fair enough. Agreed.
Was Ings even on Maguire's mind when he dropped off Watkins? Seems to me like he was anticipating the pass to be ahead of him rather than behind him. Maybe he realised that he wasn't going to win in a race between himself and Watkins and decided to try and cut out the imminent through pass. In any case, it wasn't great defending, that's for sure.
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