Surely...SURELY, for his own good and confidence, he should be dropped for a few games just to collect himself? And get him out of the spotlight? What's Ralf playing at here?
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Maguire had a good game overall last night.
Anyone blaming him for that own goal are nerds who have never played a game of football in their lives..
Stringing a number of good games together has been the main issue with him and most of his teammates for me.
Every game this season we have at least 7-8 players underperforming....
Hence we are where we are.
It's funny how often this type of shite is regurgited as a defense of crappy players. Is anyone allowed to have an opinion without submitting highlight reels of drunken Sunday league football? What are your credentials? Haha
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Why does so many of our players turn to shit. Is it the pressure or just poor mangement?
They are often doing well in spells, but not for longer.
They are often doing well in spells, but not for longer.
At this point I’d start with Varane and Lindelof. I quite rate Lindelof, think it’s well underrated. I don’t think Maguire is anywhere near as bad as people make out, he’s been quality for us before but he’s had a horrible season. Has the yips for sure. Get him out of the limelight for a while.
Lindelof has better positioning and is much better on the turn, and although not quick, he’s quicker than Maguire. I think Harry’s ability on the ball is very good but Lindelof is no slouch, and is more capable of driving from deep. Shaw, Varane, Lindelof, Dalot is a good enough back four for 4th place. Giving Diogo a consistent run of games through the end of the season is important. He has potential.
Lindelof has better positioning and is much better on the turn, and although not quick, he’s quicker than Maguire. I think Harry’s ability on the ball is very good but Lindelof is no slouch, and is more capable of driving from deep. Shaw, Varane, Lindelof, Dalot is a good enough back four for 4th place. Giving Diogo a consistent run of games through the end of the season is important. He has potential.
On the goal he is clearly flat footed and that's why he ended up conceding the own goal. He wasn't on his toes anticipating and was behind the play. A top defender gets into the position to clear that. It's not a simple bad contact you can see he literally isnt positioned right because he didn't move into the right position quickly enough.
I know he isnt playing poor this season but is the intense hatred justified?
Maguire was our best defender against Spurs. Varane was far, far too passive and actually made a couple of minor errors that he/we got away with. Maguire was very aggressive, on the front-foot, dominant in the air and hit a few really nice passes.
Too many of you don't have a clue what you're watching and just regurgitate what some pleb on Twitter thinks.
You all want to know why Rangnick has, at some point, dropped virtually every other player but not Maguire? It's because despite the overall s**tness of our team and our inability to defend as a unit, we're still far, far better with him than without.
Incidentally, in his entire United career, our win stats with Maguire are 52%, and without it's 25%.
Too many of you don't have a clue what you're watching and just regurgitate what some pleb on Twitter thinks.
You all want to know why Rangnick has, at some point, dropped virtually every other player but not Maguire? It's because despite the overall s**tness of our team and our inability to defend as a unit, we're still far, far better with him than without.
Incidentally, in his entire United career, our win stats with Maguire are 52%, and without it's 25%.
Without getting into your general point I completely agree that Maguire was our best CB against Spurs and it’s crazy (albeit predictable) that he’s getting a tonne of shit on here since, while Varane has got almost no criticism at all.
Four full pages moaning about Maguire’s performance. A grand total of 6 posts about Varane’s! Mental.
Some stats
Maguire made 1 tackle and 5 interceptions, plus 3 blocks.
1, 0 and 1 for Varane.
Can’t find stats on winning headers/aerial duels etc but would be fairly confident they paint a similar picture.
Some stats
Maguire made 1 tackle and 5 interceptions, plus 3 blocks.
1, 0 and 1 for Varane.
Can’t find stats on winning headers/aerial duels etc but would be fairly confident they paint a similar picture.
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It's because bashing Maguire generates clicks and engagements. It's also 'easy' for pundits to bash Maguire, the ex-Hull/Leicester CB, who has never won a trophy and who cost £80m.
Since Maguire has been at the club, he's been hammered. If he's not absolutely foot-perfect, he's ridiculed, slaughtered for every little miss-step. Over time, it's just become accepted by the average man in the street that he's somehow a terrible player...but despite that, he's never been dropped by United or England.
EDIT | I just saw your post about Varane's stats above....this completely proves my point. I hadn't seen these before, but just by watching, I could have told you Varane wasn't actually doing anything. I used the word 'passive' in my original post. You don't get much more passive than those stats!
I don't like using this as an argument generally because it sounds a bit s**ty, but I have played CB at regional semi-pro level, usually badly, and I can tell you, it's much much harder to be the 'aggressor'. Any fool can look half-decent staying goal-side, taking no risks and dropping off towards your own goal every time, but it doesn't help the team at all. Maguire is brave, every single week, always on the front-foot, always trying to be the 'positive' CB partner. I credit that, even when it goes wrong at times, because it's so hard to do.
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The ear cupping stuff is really silly and I hope he can grow into a player who demands respect, which is probably the most important trait of a captain. If fit I would play Lindelof and Verane. Bruno is another one that get full marks for endeavour but almost zero marks for composure. I would prefer a midfield that don't turn the ball over so frequently. Rashford has been shit for ages and I think he looks totally lost on the pitch. Maybe he has attached his off-field success to his on field persona and that won't work out well for him . I would drop him and play someone who can keep the ball.
I thought he was ok defensively, and own goals happen, it’s not the end of the world. However surely he has to take the blame for the own goal? He was the one who failed to clear it and put it in his own net. It wasn’t an easy clearance but he still failed. Then many players, incl Harry, have to take the blame for the whole situation as it was really a team failure.
We saw the same misuse of stats against City where some people used the whoscored points to show how bad Lindelof was compared to Maguire. However the City defenders had the same stats as Lindelof and Varane. The thing is, nobody criticises Maguire for not heading the ball, for not clearing, etc. It is his shortcomings, mistakes, failures and poor decisions that are being criticised.
It’s not that weird given Maguire has been a liability all season and scored an own goal. Varane was average but even at his bottom level he doesn’t make any glaring errors so it’s not surprising his thread is quiet, there simply wasn’t much to say on his performance, good or bad.
I don't understand how that is a 'misuse of stats'? My point, which I made prior to seeing those stats, was that Varane was far, far too passive against Harry Kane. When @Pogue Mahone posted those stats, I had already responded, but edited my post because they support the argument I had already made.
Honestly, I'm not trying to come across as rude or objectionable here but I gave fed-up of this debate every week, and I'll always defend a player who I think is being unfairly criticised - but why do you think City's defenders might not have had mega-high stats for blocks/tackles/clearances/interceptions etc...in a game they won 4-1 at home?
That's before we even try and compare the fact that their front 6 works like absolute trojans to stop the ball even getting out of the opposition half, whilst our lads just wander about staring into the stands.
On the 'do I think Maguire was at fault for the goal' point....no, not really. As usual, we're in the position of having to scramble because we're too easy to play through/against. When you have to try and get across the near-post like that and it catches your studs and flies in, what can you really do? It's just one of those things. If any other CB in the division concedes that OG, it's a non-issue, it would rightly be called 'unlucky'.
It’s not weird, I agree. Because discussions in player performance threads are invariably full of baggage from the season leading up to the game. So it’s definitely not unusual for the most recent performance (which is what the thread should really be dominated by) to be more or less irrelevant. It is annoying though.
The OG is what it is. That goal was coming for reasons that have nothing to do with Maguire. From his perspective it was unlucky, nothing more. It certainly wasn’t poor defending and if we’re allocating blame for that goal we should look at events leading up to that cross coming in, not afterwards.
Why was Pogba facing the cameras instead of him after the Spurs game? Perhaps I missed it if he actually did, but it seems he hides whenever he has a bad game and refuses to address his own shortcomings (not to say he was overall terrible but the OG shined a negative light on his performance).
He was never captain material to begin with and this role has played a huge part in the scrutiny of his performances. Maguire seems like the type that feigns confidence when he's soft as mustard on the inside and his teammates know it.
For his own sake he should reliquensh the captaincy to someone else. He's nowhere as good as he thinks and I blame the club for it.
He was never captain material to begin with and this role has played a huge part in the scrutiny of his performances. Maguire seems like the type that feigns confidence when he's soft as mustard on the inside and his teammates know it.
For his own sake he should reliquensh the captaincy to someone else. He's nowhere as good as he thinks and I blame the club for it.
What's the obsession with who is captain on here? Does the captain do the post match interview every game for every other club?
Given that we won and he came out on top against the most in form striker in the league it would have been an easy one to do for him.
It’s the way it goes, unfortunately for Maguire because, own goal aside he did have a good game on Saturday, his distribution showed why he’s important to our build up play when he’s on form. The own goal was unfortunate but he does seem to be having unfortunate moments on a weekly basis to the point where you have to argue that better anticipation would see a lot of those mistakes cut out.
If the captaincy has no relevance then why does the role exist? Why does Maguire routinely abscond press duties whenever united lose badly? I've seen Luke Shaw bravely take this mantle after high profile defeats more often than anyone else at this club. Is it wrong of me to ask?
Is it also wrong of me to point out that Maguire never acknowledges his own shit performances? It's always 'we need to do better' or some other similar robotic crap response from him in the rare event he faces the press after a bad game
Maguire scored a stupid own goal I'm pretty sure that's why. He keeps making match changing mistakes whereas varane doesn't.
I'm not going to comment on his performances per se as that's being discussed in enough detail, but have we ever had a consistent starter so universally unpopular among the fan base? You'd have to think at a certain point that fact alone might drive him out of the team.
I've usually defended Maguire and considered him generally to be a good player - he was a rock for England at the Euros for example and he has usually decent ability on the ball, but the number of bad mistakes is becoming inexcusable at the point. You'd struggle to find another defender at this level with a YT compilation of errors has damning as his.
Varane is a covering defender, Maguire is an aggressive stopper, their numbers will always reflect that. Using those numbers on their own to make an argument about center back’s performance will lead you to a very logical conclusion that Shawcross was a better player than Rio.
That’s fair criticism. Although I don’t think it applies to the OG where he was forced into desperate last-ditch defending because of the non-existent protection in midfield.
Does the captain do the press every week for every other club? Do you think Ronaldo would instead? They couldn't even get an interview after a hattrick.
Where do you draw the line between criticism and hatred? He is being called out because he is an 80M player and the club captain and getting selected game after game, when fit.
Same reason why people get frustrated with Pogba, but not that much with McT. Because he is supposed to be the bigger player.
Well Fellaini was a consistent starter far too often
Did think of him, him or Maguire, although Fellaini did get booed a few times so he probably wins out.
No. It’s childish. He’s a good defender in bad form and looks awful many times in quite a lot of matches.
The hatred feels like children are commenting.
He literally gets wheeled out every time we don't win. There are a lot of things to criticise but to suggest he doesn't face the press is just ridiculous.
I'm shocked he hasn't been criticised for the way he breathes yet, it is borderline obsession for some of you lot.
Far too logical post for this thread.
What!? A defender is there to defend situations no matter who is in front of him, some people on here have unrealistic expectations to what a midfielder does. If we let in a corner, is that also because a midfielder failed to do a better job a few moments earlier? Tottenham established an attack, their player snuck a cross in and Maguire needlessly fumbled it into the back of the net. Aka executing his job terribly.
You evaded the pertinent questions
You've ignored mine twice. I'll answer for you. No the captain doesn't come out every week for other clubs (or us in the past).
He could have easily come out on Saturday after a win and said "yeah bad mistake for the own goal, I hold my hands up" like you're asking for. What difference would it make?
Apart from the own goal he played OK, just as CR7 was moderate apart from his 3 goals. You can't take goals away from a striker's performance, just as you can't take crucial mistake away from a defender's performance. And yes, his own goal was a mistake, just like when a striker misses a goal given enough time and space in the box, it is not unlucky.
In all his post game interviews I'm yet to see him take responsibility for his individual culpability. I'm yet to see him take one of these interviews in the bigger losses where he was at fault for a goal. Shaw and Pogba have taken most of those.
What difference would it make? I guess it doesn't matter if you have to ask, but I wonder if you've ever questioned it when his 'leadership' qualities have been lauded by the media, the club and Solskjaer before Rangknick. Taking individual responsibility for mistakes is part of leadership
Give Varane a chance mate.
He hasn't had the chance to make many errors as he's only played about 7 games so far.
Honestly, I'd just like to see a steady rotation between Maguire, Lindelof and Verane (sorry Bailly). Mind you I watch the games without bias and can see that all 3 have had their ups and downs. Take the month of January for example. So many had been calling for Maguire to be dropped and when he didn't play in January De Gea had to make more saves than any other keeper in the league and won player of the month. All this against EPL heavy weights Brentford, Villa and Wolves. In fact, the only game De Gea wasn't MOTM in January was against West Ham where he only had to make 1 save. This was the only game Maguire played in January...
There are many reasons why I would call this misusing stats. First of all the whoscored points/stats do not reflect the performance, especially not for a defender. It’s great that Harry had X clearances but too bad one ended up in his own goal, as example. A CB’s performance is to large extent measured in the mistakes/poor decisions/ poor executions he did or did not make. The stats showed here don’t tell us anything about that.
And the problem with Maguire is not that he doesn’t commit, but his failures and poor decisions.
Second is what @harms wrote in post earlier today. Different players, different styles and roles. Doesn’t make him better or more brave, just that he’s a player who wants to attack the player in front of him.
Varane might look too passive sometimes, just like Lindelof, but it’s their style and their roles. Instead they are good at shutting down and protect the space behind them. Varane is imo poor when he tries to attack the player in front of him and is often overplayed.
Yes Harry was unlucky. Again.
You're kidding yourself if you think it's just bad form. Never seen a top CB make the mistakes he makes and my ball knowledge goes back to the early 2000s. He's clearly being played because someone at the board is embarrassed to put 80M signing on the bench.
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