We piled on late on in both though. Don’t get me wrong, it’s nice to see them do it but for the first 60 minutes of both those games the performances weren’t that different to what we’ve seen all season. Leipzig’s defending was suicidal. We won’t come up against defences like that too often.
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 52
- Clean sheets
- 21
- Goals
- 3
- Assists
- 1
- Yellow cards
- 15
- Status
So what you're saying is that Maguire was constantly caught on the ball and gave it away constantly, hense the reason why you lot are blaming him. Oh wait, the stats prove that's not the case. So what's the other possibility? You have an agenda against our best defender...
Funny thing is Maguire isn't even close being my favourite player on this team. I just know for a fact that he's our best defender. Amazingly, I was also accused by United supporters in the past that Carrick was my favourite player when I was constantly defending him when he played for us. I just hope that when Maguire's United career is finally over (hopefully when he retires) that people like you look back and realize just how good he actually was (just like you lot do with Carrick)...
I don't agree with this assessment in the case of the Arsenal game. They press really high and push up their defence to pin the opposition in their own half. It prohibited us from playing a highline until they sat deep to protect their league and then Maguire was up the pitch. I think the big issue was in the first half when the formation was wrong. We switched to our usual formation in the second half and started to look dangerous when we matched them up in midfield. Then Pogba killed the game by giving them a penalty. Arteta has Arsenal really well drilled defensively and we couldn't break them down. I think Ole botched the subs badly too because we ended up with no shape and the players looked lost system wise.
I think that you have a point in that we struggle in a high line because of his lack of pace along with Lindelof but I don't think Maguire was any part of the problem yesterday, rather that he was probably our best player.
He needs to pass the ball out of defence with more purpose and intensity. He and Lindelof have important roles in building the tempo to our game.
He's back to playing well again as is our whole defence. In the 5 games since Spurs nobody has scored against us in open play. We've scored twice ourselves, and conceded one penalty. My problem with him is that he is not a leader and a captain. He doesn't lead by example and he doesn't have that fire in him.
Agree. We have a clear lack of character and strong, confident and arrogant personalities. We have a nice bunch of guys but we need that bite on and off the pitch.
I am going to say it: I think he is the worst signing we have ever made. His signing has caused so many issues. He prevents us from playing a high-pressing game because he is just far too slow; he is a major reason why we have to play two defensive midfielders along with the best defensive right-back in the world; his wages and transfer fee put enormous pressure on any manager to play him, which will affect any who want to play a high-press, for which he is just not suitable.
People point to our improved defensive record now, but we have to play the most defensive right back in the world and two predominantly defensive midfielders. This has covered up for his inadequacies that were being exposed again and again, but it will impact our attacking play under any future manager. It wasn't just this season either, we got shredded multiple times after lockdown and were lucky not concede in more games.
Does he pass better than Lindelof? No, he doesn't. The only reason he wins headers most of the time is due to him being big; he is not particularly good at directing it. He has the turning circle of an oil tanker. There is nothing special about him to compensate for his glaring weaknesses.
He will be impossible to offload. Even with his wages, Sanchez was far more attractive to sign that Maguire will ever be.
He will end up as the most expensive deadwood that would have ever played for the club. This signing will cause us a lot more trouble in the future.
People point to our improved defensive record now, but we have to play the most defensive right back in the world and two predominantly defensive midfielders. This has covered up for his inadequacies that were being exposed again and again, but it will impact our attacking play under any future manager. It wasn't just this season either, we got shredded multiple times after lockdown and were lucky not concede in more games.
Does he pass better than Lindelof? No, he doesn't. The only reason he wins headers most of the time is due to him being big; he is not particularly good at directing it. He has the turning circle of an oil tanker. There is nothing special about him to compensate for his glaring weaknesses.
He will be impossible to offload. Even with his wages, Sanchez was far more attractive to sign that Maguire will ever be.
He will end up as the most expensive deadwood that would have ever played for the club. This signing will cause us a lot more trouble in the future.
This is something has been annoying me as well. There are many occasions where he is rather unchallenged and should have perfect control of the ball but just clears it. It was the same with Smalling.
Much of what you say was pinpointed when signing him.
We conceded less goals in 15/16, 16/17 & 17/18 than we did last season; people using the outlier that was José spending months trying to be sacked in 18/19 are ignoring the fact our defence is at best as good as it was for the years prior.
He was never going to prove worth £80mil when deficiencies elsewhere are plentiful.
Not a bad player but certainly not an elite CB or leader.
Think we all need to forget the price tag and just judge him on how he plays. He was ok ish yesterday didn’t do well but wasn’t terrible. Granted it’s not good enough but he gets harshly viewed due to price tag.
True. However, I don't think the expectation that he should be world class is unfair. Is he?
World class is pushing it a bit but agree we should be expecting him to be at a higher level than he is. Just think it’s easy to slate him at the moment if he was home grown it wouldn’t be like this.
I think this is a basic way of looking at things. xG can offer more context.
This is our xGA since 14/15
14/15 - 40 goals
15/16 - 40 goals
16/17 - 32 goals
17/18 - 44 goals
18/19 - 52 goals
19/20 - 38 goals
Compare each of those seasons to the best xGA in the league
14/15 - 32 goals
15/16 - 34 goals
16/17 - 29 goals
17/18 - 25 goals
18/19 - 26 goals
19/20 - 37 goals
So only once in the past 6 seasons have we been expected to concede less than last season. The improvement on the previous two seasons was significant. In addition last season was the closest we’ve been to the best defence in the league.
His passing for a "ball playing CB" is quite bad. Most of them are over hit to left or right side (mostly left) and i wouldn't be surprised if Lindelöf has more forward pass completion than Maguire.
Again missing the point of what many posters here have noted.
Again, the points about Maguire's role in high pressing opponents that push up against us and his general attacking impetus in building from the back have gone over your head. Again. Like Maguire's shot.
What I have highlighted in your post is literally the polar opposite of what many are saying here. So, for one last time:
Maguire is a good defender with some authority, decent reading of the defensive game and a solid marshal for the back 4.
He has defensively been poor due to his Greek troubles and has re-gained his defensive confidence somewhat in the past few games.
He is not an 80m defender but this isn't his fault.
His lack of pace and earlier form have placed Ole with either dropping him - which he hasn't - and playing more defensively.
Due to Maguire and Lindelof's collective lack of pace, we are forced to sit deeper than we would like.
When sat deep, Maguire, especially in the Arsenal match and as Captain, needs to pass better and quicker and lead attacks against the high press with more impetus in passing and his reading of our attacking phases has to be better as the ball is often recycled through him. He needs to be more progressive in his passing and we have seen and saw glimpses of this but he simply has to do better as his performances in this aspect are causing a chain of issues further through the attacking phases of our team.
If you think the above constitutes an "Agenda," then pray tell us, which critiques of his attacking play would you accept?
I see xGA & almost stop reading. Whilst I understand it’s merits I’m not going to debate expectation vs reality.
A match isn’t a simulation where you play out possibilities over & over like Football Manager; players do things you would/wouldn’t expect them to constantly.
Since signing Maguire we’ve predominantly played with 2 DMs & flank our CBs with 2 defensive minded FBs; does xG take into account the fact we now dedicate 2 midfielders to babysit our captain?
To confirm, I’m not discounting xG entirely but the theory Maguire has improved us defensively beyond recognition is [imo] exaggerated - 18/19 is an outlier but our average xG including it [excluding last season] is 41.6, remove it & it’s 39 - it’s simply not a large enough improvement for his reputation on here with some.
I said at the time & remain certain had we invested the £80mil [plus the £50mil for AWB] in attack/midfield we’d be further along in our rebuild as the defence wasn’t as bad as the anomaly that was 18/19.
The reason I find it hard to judge Maguire is because when we have the right midfield balance of defensive midfielders then the whole defence seems to end up doing relatively well, gaining clean sheets etc.
When we don't though the opposition literally runs through both Lindelof and Maguire like no one is there.
When we don't though the opposition literally runs through both Lindelof and Maguire like no one is there.
I 100% agree with this. Like it or not football at the highest level is played on the front foot, both in attacking and defending phases. Pressing high, winning the ball back high, playing fast with talented players up front. Maguire would have been a nice CB for some old Mourinho teams that defended deep because he deals well in that area. But that style has been shown to be ineffective in today's game, primarily because it requires absolutely lethal forwards and midfielders with the skill to break lines with one pass, and all of this has to happen while avoiding the inevitable clattering foul that's going to come from a Fabinho, Fernandinho, Kimmich etc the first time you play around them from your own half. Therefore to combat this you have to be willing to play a high line as well to gain some territory on these teams, as well as have defenders that are comfortable on the ball and playing the ball forward under pressure. Maguire struggles at both of these things, and it puts the team in limbo, stuck as a side that wants to attack and press but also has to play around the liability their defenders bring when put in 1v1 situations high up the pitch.
Which is another of Maguire's big issues, and another reason we'll never be able to be a front-foot, high-line team with him in the Back Four.
He was Bottom 5 in the entire league last season among centre-backs for tackle success vs Dribblers.
Maguire:
19/20 season at the bottom.
Tkl: Successful Tackles, Att: Attempted Tackles, %: Success Rate, Past: Times Dribbled Past
Lindelof:
Which is another of Maguire's big issues, and another reason we'll never be able to be a front-foot, high-line team with him in the Back Four.
He was Bottom 5 in the entire league last season among centre-backs for tackle success vs Dribblers.
Maguire:
19/20 season at the bottom.
Tkl: Successful Tackles, Att: Attempted Tackles, %: Success Rate, Past: Times Dribbled Past
Lindelof:
You should compare these with other better CBs, Also tackle % alone is not good indicator. You have to see how many attempts they made too.
For example, Alaba had 41% success rate, no one would say high lines is the problem for Bayern. Boateng had 34.8%,
Van Dijk had 40% success rate last season, Hummels had 43% and 39% in last 2 seasons.
Varane had 33%, 50%, 33% in last 3 seasons.
xG is an advanced analytic metric used by data scientists and people that work in football, including managers. It measures the underlying trends in games because the basic data like goals scored can be misleading. It's through looking at this data that Mourinho was desperate to sign two new centre backs after only conceding 28 goals in a season. That's because xG told us that despite the low goals conceded column our defending was actually very poor, even in Mourinho's largely negative approach. In that particular season we were bailed out by some luck through bad finishing but also by an incredible goalkeeping performance from DDG which saw him voted as the best keeper in the world by his fellow professionals.
We've played defensively since Fergie left.
These are the goals scored and xG under LVG
14/15 goals scored 62 - xG 54
15/16 goals scored 49 - xG 45
Under Mou
16/17 goals scored 54- xG 58
17/18 goals scored 68 - xG 59
18/19 goals scored 65 - xG 68 - this was the season Mourinho got sacked and Ole came in, we had a great run after Ole signed.
Under Ole
19/20 goals scored 66 - xG 66
So again this underlying data does not support an idea that were surrendering attacking impetus to 'babysit' Maguire, rather that our attacking has been it's most potent with him in the side in the past 6 seasons whilst also improving our defensive solidity.
I do think that AWB and Shaw are much bigger issue than Maguire in games where we face the low block. The idea that Maguire should be expected winning the game in attack against sides like Arsenal is fanciful, ironically he still made as many key passes in that game as the attacking midfielders and came closer to scoring than any of the attackers on Sunday!
That said, there are improvements that need to be made if we are to challenge. I think AWB , as great as he is when were play deep, is a liability when the opposition does. A liability to the extent where the opposition leave him as a free man because they know that he's unlikely to affect the game in attacking positions and that he takes so long to get the all under control they can get back into shape easily.
I also think that we need some pace in the centre back positions because the inability to push up the centre backs is a problem. Although I'm a fan of Maguire I'm not under any illusions that he's a world class centre back but I'd sacrifice Lindelof out of the two.
When you say a player needs to pass it better than the 90%+ passing that he had, then yes, you definitely have an agenda. I won't even bother with the other crap. You're just another muppet regurgitating whatever Mark Goldbridge says. Think for yourself....
Essentially your reply is :
Goldbridge.
one stat accuracy.
Everything else is crap.
Eloquent there lad. Proper class. If you can't understand such a simple point many here have mentioned then prob. best to stick to FIFA video games. Has Goldbridge hurt you?
Sorry if the stats don't correspond with your agenda
I apologise; I genuinely thought you understood context and comprehension. Never once did anyone imply the strawman you have drawn up.
Ray Wilkins must be your favourite player. I bet you couldn't tell the difference if Bruno's stats for your beloved metric dropped as he attempted more forward passes which carries greater risk. You even mentioned you defended Carrick. And that man could control tempo.
Maguire does everything you want him to do and more. You just don't see it and are looking for excuses because he cost more than what you wanted and for some reason you think he set his own price and that the money came out of your pocket. He is our best defender. By far. It's not even close. But go on with your agenda against him along with all the others on this thread. We have such a toxic fan base. Nobody scapegoats their best players like United "supporters" do...
Istanbul Basaksehir 2:1 Man Utd
Feck me with all the so called aerial process he can't head the ball down to one of our players once, did it in the last game aswell, infuriating.
Waiting to see what Mark Goldbridge has to say before I post my opinion. Hopefully it’s something about him going up front at the end of games to lump the ball on to his stupid, fat head.
He would be considered a flop even for half the price £40mill.
Can’t believe he’s captain of this team. There’s zero leadership on the pitch.
Can’t believe he’s captain of this team. There’s zero leadership on the pitch.
I'd rather a cross land on the head of a three foot midget than the head of Maguire in the last minute. Lost track of how many times I've seen him doing that stupid fecking expression with both hands either side of his massive head.
Total wank, whoever sanctioned a world record fee for this dosey, clumsy oaf needs their head testing.
Total wank, whoever sanctioned a world record fee for this dosey, clumsy oaf needs their head testing.
Can't stand it when he takes the ball, slows it down and tries pinging passes about like he's Xavi or Scholes.
And Ole praises him for this.
He needs a rocket up his *** from someone.
And Ole praises him for this.
He needs a rocket up his *** from someone.
Pretty weird how both Axel and Lindelof seemed to perform better when he's not pairing anyone of them. 
For his fee he is one of the worst center backs we've had at the club and we had William Prunier.
He's a solid player, but not in any world is he fit to captain this club.
But my God, how easily was he fooled by Ba for their second
But my God, how easily was he fooled by Ba for their second
Last edited:
He's depressing to watch.
Pretty weird how both Axel and Lindelof seemed to perform better when he's not pairing anyone of them.
And Bailly too, he was fine playing next to Lindeolf.
He’s overrated but the thing is he’s only overrated by people on here. Literally no neutral fan raves about him even when he was at Leicester.
Somewhere down the line, someone lied to him and convince him he could pass the ball for long distances.
Does the UK have an extradition treaty with Greece?
- Status