Harry Kane MBE | Performances

TwoSheds said:
Thanks for your assessment, it's a good one I think. I see a lot of similarities with Pogba (Alli is a better finisher but not as skilful). However, where they currently differ is how their coach is trying to develop them. Mourinho is starting to get more responsibility out of Pogba by playing him deeper, whereas Alli is playing with much more freedom. I look back at Gerrard as a model of how not to develop top attacking midfield talents personally, and Alli is currently sailing closer to that development path than Pogba. Thing Alli has in his favour of course is Poch's enthusiasm for defending from the front and the fact that he's still very young.

However, where I disagree with you is that he's not currently more of a forward than a midfielder.

Heat map from that Chelsea game where he scored 2 goals:

p8QrOob.png
Click to expand...

Yeah Pogba and Alli are currently being asked to do slightly different jobs, and with Pogbas range of passing and physical attributes I can understand why he is used in a deeper position. I still believe that neither player would benefit from being forced to play a holding role, but should be allowed to move into whatever space they think will benefit the team. This is why I believe Pogba is best when playing in a 4-3-3 variant, and not in a typical 4-2-3-1 with a classic number 10 who occupy the space in front of him.

It's interesting that you think Alli's current position may be a hindrance to his development, but personally I don't think this is the case at the moment (at least). What do you think went wrong with the development of Gerrard? I take it you feel he didn't manage to develop positional awareness and the discipline required to be a world class holding midfielder?

That heat map is really cool! I was looking for the exact same thing, but didn't find it, is there a page such information is available for free? Regarding this particular heat map; if I remember correctly, that Chelsea game we played with 3 defenders, 2 wingbacks, 2 holding midfielders, and with Alli and Eriksen behind Kane, - Alli more advanced than Eriksen who dropped deeper into a playmaking role. So in this game in particular he was playing as a second striker with almost no defensive responsibilities due to the tactics set on the day. So I agree with you, that he has been used as a forward in certain games this season (when we went 3 at the back), but this is not the position he usually plays. Would be interesting to see heat maps for other games this season as well. :)
 
caisenma said:
as much as i dislike lingard, i don't actually believe that. was being more than slightly OTT :)
Click to expand...
Yeah- I thought it was just a joke. But Lingasrd's age makes it possible for him to improve too
 
Kane reminds me of a lesser version of Muller, he just scores, obviously a good player, but there's nothing visually pleasing about his style, I wouldn't want him at United, I'd have preferred to keep little pea than spend £80-100m to get Kane.
 
yumtum said:
Kane reminds me of a lesser version of Muller, he just scores, obviously a good player, but there's nothing visually pleasing about his style, I wouldn't want him at United, I'd have preferred to keep little pea than spend £80-100m to get Kane.
Click to expand...

ur clearly not looking that hard, if ur don't appreciate work rate, hold up play and close control fair enough. Little pea over Kane? Pass me ur glue mate.
 
InLevyITrust said:
ur clearly not looking that hard, if ur don't appreciate work rate, hold up play and close control fair enough. Little pea over Kane? Pass me ur glue mate.
Click to expand...


Did I say I didn't appreciate it? I said there's nothing visually pleasing about his style, if you read again I say he's a good player, like Muller I just don't like that style, it's all opinions, no need to pull a temper tantrum when someone doesn't wet themselves over a Spurs player.

I'd rather spend all that cash on a Dybala, I'd even go as far and say Icardi is a better player than Kane, he's just a nutcase.
 
yumtum said:
Did I say I didn't appreciate it? I said there's nothing visually pleasing about his style, if you read again I say he's a good player, like Muller I just don't like that style, it's all opinions, no need to pull a temper tantrum when someone doesn't wet themselves over a Spurs player.

I'd rather spend all that cash on a Dybala, I'd even go as far and say Icardi is a better player than Kane, he's just a nutcase.
Click to expand...

Temper tantrum? I just said I find it weird ud rather pump for an unproven player over bread and butter, Shearer was hardly a flair player? A 23 yo with his return is a little better than good I'd say.
 
Dybala isn't an unproven player though, Kane isn't bread and butter either, he can be a bit of a donkey (see the Euro's) at times, I just find his style unpleasing for the amount of money it'd take to take him to United.

Note that I'm saying for the amount of money (as Levy would want at least £80m) and not saying he's a bad player, I'd just want more for that kind of cash.

Shearer was and will always be a much better player than Kane so not sure why you've put him into the conversation, Kane is a good player, just not worth breaking records to get.
 
yumtum said:
Dybala isn't an unproven player though, Kane isn't bread and butter either, he can be a bit of a donkey (see the Euro's) at times, I just find his style unpleasing for the amount of money it'd take to take him to United.

Note that I'm saying for the amount of money (as Levy would want at least £80m) and not saying he's a bad player, I'd just want more for that kind of cash.

Shearer was and will always be a much better player than Kane so not sure why you've put him into the conversation, Kane is a good player, just not worth breaking records to get.
Click to expand...

Kane is 23!!! 23! He's a striker, he will score. Why exactly u call him a donkey I have no idea. Dybala is the same age scored no international goals and plays in a league far inferior to ours. Tell me why u think Shearer is better? He was far from graceful, another question, how do u rate Sheringham?
 
Yes? I know his age, just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's suddenly going to improve into an £80m player, he might, I just find it doubtful, no doubt he'll score goals, not saying otherwise, I just don't like his style, and I didn't call him a donkey! I said he can play like one sometimes (again, you'd want an £80m player to play at the level of Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar).

Shearer was better than both Sheringham and Kane, actually Sheringham is about the level I expect Kane to achieve, good player, not quite the elite.

I'm going to establish my point again here because you seem to be pinpointing words I'm using and going off in a tangent, he's a GOOD player, I'd have him here if he cost no more than £40m...But Levy would never let him go for anything less than £80m and he just isn't, or is never going to be a player in that bracket, this is what I'm getting at.

I don't think Kane will ever excite me as a striker as a Falcao or Torres had done at their peaks, it's just what I prefer to see.

Regarding Dybala, Italy is notoriously difficult to score in, yes as a while it's below the Premier League, but defensively it's still strong, and Argentina, you think Kane could get games when he is competing with the likes of Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain? Give it a couple of years and Dybala will have surpassed Kane I'm quite sure of it.

For what it's worth I wouldn't have Griezmann at £80m either, so again, I'm not saying Kane is crap, because he's clearly not, he's just not going to be worth what Spurs will want for him.

P.s I only sniff glue on weekends.
 
yumtum said:
Yes? I know his age, just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's suddenly going to improve into an £80m player, he might, I just find it doubtful, no doubt he'll score goals, not saying otherwise, I just don't like his style, and I didn't call him a donkey! I said he can play like one sometimes (again, you'd want an £80m player to play at the level of Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar).

Shearer was better than both Sheringham and Kane, actually Sheringham is about the level I expect Kane to achieve, good player, not quite the elite.

I'm going to establish my point again here because you seem to be pinpointing words I'm using and going off in a tangent, he's a GOOD player, I'd have him here if he cost no more than £40m...But Levy would never let him go for anything less than £80m and he just isn't, or is never going to be a player in that bracket, this is what I'm getting at.

I don't think Kane will ever excite me as a striker as a Falcao or Torres had done at their peaks, it's just what I prefer to see.

Regarding Dybala, Italy is notoriously difficult to score in, yes as a while it's below the Premier League, but defensively it's still strong, and Argentina, you think Kane could get games when he is competing with the likes of Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain? Give it a couple of years and Dybala will have surpassed Kane I'm quite sure of it.

For what it's worth I wouldn't have Griezmann at £80m either, so again, I'm not saying Kane is crap, because he's clearly not, he's just not going to be worth what Spurs will want for him.

P.s I only sniff glue on weekends.
Click to expand...

Time will tell, personally I wouldn't swap Kane for anyone u mentioned in Spain simply due to his age. Italy is not the league it was look at Zaza at West Spam, we spunked big money o Soldado and the Dutch kid and failed, to score goals in the Premiership u need to be sure.

To be fair I agree with you, Kane isn't really a United player but could u honestly say Jose is a United manager? He's not about youth or really exciting play he's about results now and in any way possible. I'd actually bet you £50 that in 5 years Kane will be in a different level than Dybala not really due to talant but in sheer disire. There has been to many nearly strikers in Italy and I don't agree on the defensive side in their league anymore, since the Juve debacle their league has been incredibly poor. Just my opinion, the EPL is so much more intense, more games, no break, and from top to bottom every game is hard.
 
InLevyITrust said:
P.S. Gorilla or super :)?
Click to expand...

Depends on my mood :drool: I'll take that bet though, back here in 5 years time to see which one is closer to the Ballon D'or?

Also I'd only ever seen SAF as a manager, so no one suits the job to me. (Spoilt!)
 
yumtum said:
Yes? I know his age, just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's suddenly going to improve into an £80m player, he might, I just find it doubtful, no doubt he'll score goals, not saying otherwise, I just don't like his style, and I didn't call him a donkey! I said he can play like one sometimes (again, you'd want an £80m player to play at the level of Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar).

Shearer was better than both Sheringham and Kane, actually Sheringham is about the level I expect Kane to achieve, good player, not quite the elite.

I'm going to establish my point again here because you seem to be pinpointing words I'm using and going off in a tangent, he's a GOOD player, I'd have him here if he cost no more than £40m...But Levy would never let him go for anything less than £80m and he just isn't, or is never going to be a player in that bracket, this is what I'm getting at.

I don't think Kane will ever excite me as a striker as a Falcao or Torres had done at their peaks, it's just what I prefer to see.

Regarding Dybala, Italy is notoriously difficult to score in, yes as a while it's below the Premier League, but defensively it's still strong, and Argentina, you think Kane could get games when he is competing with the likes of Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain? Give it a couple of years and Dybala will have surpassed Kane I'm quite sure of it.

For what it's worth I wouldn't have Griezmann at £80m either, so again, I'm not saying Kane is crap, because he's clearly not, he's just not going to be worth what Spurs will want for him.

P.s I only sniff glue on weekends.
Click to expand...

Not disagreeing with you really, and it's understandable that you wouldn't want to pay 80m for Kane, not that I think Levy would sell anyway. But it is too early to speak of Kane and 'was', he is 23 and time will tell how he will compare with those players. If he continues to produce 20+ league goals seasons for 10+ years he would be spoken of in the same breath as Shearer, if he improves, even better. His level might suddenly drop as well, and he will stabilize as a 10/15 goals a season striker. Time will tell.

If he does continue to produce 20+ league goals a season he would absolutely be worth the 80m in my eyes, the current market is silly.
 
hellohello said:
Not disagreeing with you really, and it's understandable that you wouldn't want to pay 80m for Kane, not that I think Levy would sell anyway. But it is too early to speak of Kane and 'was', he is 23 and time will tell how he will compare with those players. If he continues to produce 20+ league goals seasons for 10+ years he would be spoken of in the same breath as Shearer, if he improves, even better. His level might suddenly drop as well, and he will stabilize as a 10/15 goals a season striker. Time will tell.

If he does continue to produce 20+ league goals a season he would absolutely be worth the 80m in my eyes, the current market is silly.
Click to expand...

Understand where you're coming from, but I don't think he will improve to a level of scoring Ronaldo/Messi like numbers, and I don't think he'll break Shearer's record for prem goals, he's a very good player, but I just think there's better out there.

If he scores 20 goals a season for the next 10 years then I'll take my hat off to him, still wouldn't change my mind of having to pay the amount it'd take to get him.
 
I'm not saying we will, but signing Harry Kane is basically guaranteeing 20 odd goals in the league from your striker assuming he stays fit.

He's worth the money. He's maybe not he most aesthetically pleasing, but if he scores goals who cares
 
yumtum said:
Understand where you're coming from, but I don't think he will improve to a level of scoring Ronaldo/Messi like numbers, and I don't think he'll break Shearer's record for prem goals, he's a very good player, but I just think there's better out there.

If he scores 20 goals a season for the next 10 years then I'll take my hat off to him, still wouldn't change my mind of having to pay the amount it'd take to get him.
Click to expand...

Yeah agree. I don't think any of the top 6 teams should look to buy players from any of the other 5 (except in circumstances such as Sanchez currently, where the player got all the power). The money you would need to spend for Kane or other top players from rivals will probably be better spent elsewhere.

For us, in our position, even with the money we could get, the signal it sends out would in my opinion be detrimental, and we would not be able to sign top class talent to replace him. We don't pay the wages, and don't have the pulling power so we can't afford to lose our best players or allow this 'project' to fail too early. If Pochettino manages to establish us as a top side in England with the new stadium, we might be able to take the next step and pay for top class talent, until then we can't afford to lose players such as Kane. When we sold Bale, people said it was a good deal, for me it wasn't because I knew we couldn't replace him, no matter what transfer fee we might get (same for Modric). We can't pay 80m to play 12 players so keeping our best players should be a priority.
 
hellohello said:
Yeah agree. I don't think any of the top 6 teams should look to buy players from any of the other 5 (except in circumstances such as Sanchez currently, where the player got all the power). The money you would need to spend for Kane or other top players from rivals will probably be better spent elsewhere.

For us, in our position, even with the money we could get, the signal it sends out would in my opinion be detrimental, and we would not be able to sign top class talent to replace him. We don't pay the wages, and don't have the pulling power so we can't afford to lose our best players or allow this 'project' to fail too early. If Pochettino manages to establish us as a top side in England with the new stadium, we might be able to take the next step and pay for top class talent, until then we can't afford to lose players such as Kane. When we sold Bale, people said it was a good deal, for me it wasn't because I knew we couldn't replace him, no matter what transfer fee we might get (same for Modric). We can't pay 80m to play 12 players so keeping our best players should be a priority.
Click to expand...

Would you say he'll ever be top ten
 
Billy Blaggs said:
Would you say he'll ever be top ten
Click to expand...

Top 10 what? Strikers in the world? If we only count number 9's I'd argue he's already there. (9's as in including Suarez, and not Messi or Neymar). He's a world class goal scorer IMO.

He would not look lost in almost any team in the world. If we put him in the current Real Madrid team I don't think they would get worse for it. And I'm not sure Benzema would score 20+ a few seasons in a row with us.

There are better 9's out there of course. Lewandovsky, Suarez, and even Ibra for example. But he's young and can improve, whether he takes that extra step remains to be seen but he has time. Suarez was 24 when he moved to Liverpool I think, and he wasn't world class before around 26 years of age I'd argue.
 
hellohello said:
Top 10 what? Strikers in the world? If we only count number 9's I'd argue he's already there. (9's as in including Suarez, and not Messi or Neymar). He's a world class goal scorer IMO.

He would not look lost in almost any team in the world. If we put him in the current Real Madrid team I don't think they would get worse for it. And I'm not sure Benzema would score 20+ a few seasons in a row with us.

There are better 9's out there of course. Lewandovsky, Suarez, and even Ibra for example. But he's young and can improve, whether he takes that extra step remains to be seen but he has time. Suarez was 24 when he moved to Liverpool I think, and he wasn't world class before around 26 years of age I'd argue.
Click to expand...

9 including, the ones I called he's not there yet. He's a Shearer but more of a Sutton
 
Fair enough, how do you think he compares to Rashford and Martial?
 
Maybe I'm being harsh here but today's No.9's (the good one's) should be scoring 20 league goals.

Unlike Shearer and Cole they don't have a striker next to them hunting down the same opportunities. There's a certain number of easy goals each season that previously two strikers had to share out. For Kane, Zlatan, Costa etc there's only them in the box, waiting for a tap in.
 
hellohello said:
Yeah agree. I don't think any of the top 6 teams should look to buy players from any of the other 5 (except in circumstances such as Sanchez currently, where the player got all the power). The money you would need to spend for Kane or other top players from rivals will probably be better spent elsewhere.

For us, in our position, even with the money we could get, the signal it sends out would in my opinion be detrimental, and we would not be able to sign top class talent to replace him. We don't pay the wages, and don't have the pulling power so we can't afford to lose our best players or allow this 'project' to fail too early. If Pochettino manages to establish us as a top side in England with the new stadium, we might be able to take the next step and pay for top class talent, until then we can't afford to lose players such as Kane. When we sold Bale, people said it was a good deal, for me it wasn't because I knew we couldn't replace him, no matter what transfer fee we might get (same for Modric). We can't pay 80m to play 12 players so keeping our best players should be a priority.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, if he came through the ranks here (United) it'd be great, but £80m is a lot of cash, would you pay £80m for him if he was at say, Everton? Bear inind Suarez went for £60m, I know times are changing but like you say, the teams in the Prem these days are too financially secure to poach players off!

I also think he's going to be a lifer at Spurs, you don't accept 100k a week when you could get at least 150k somewhere else unless you have the affinity he has for you lot, it's actually quite refreshing to see.

Also your question on who is better between Martial, Kane and Rashford, is obvious that Kane is better, he's playing in his natural position and our two are still being shoehorned into a position on the wings! I still prefer the style of Martial, just a personal preference though, hopefully he can start scoring on a regular basis!

@InLevyITrust you wanna make that bet then bro? :devil:
 
yumtum said:
Yes? I know his age, just because he's 23 doesn't mean he's suddenly going to improve into an £80m player, he might, I just find it doubtful, no doubt he'll score goals, not saying otherwise, I just don't like his style, and I didn't call him a donkey! I said he can play like one sometimes (again, you'd want an £80m player to play at the level of Ronaldo/Messi/Neymar).

Shearer was better than both Sheringham and Kane, actually Sheringham is about the level I expect Kane to achieve, good player, not quite the elite.

I'm going to establish my point again here because you seem to be pinpointing words I'm using and going off in a tangent, he's a GOOD player, I'd have him here if he cost no more than £40m...But Levy would never let him go for anything less than £80m and he just isn't, or is never going to be a player in that bracket, this is what I'm getting at.

I don't think Kane will ever excite me as a striker as a Falcao or Torres had done at their peaks, it's just what I prefer to see.

Regarding Dybala, Italy is notoriously difficult to score in, yes as a while it's below the Premier League, but defensively it's still strong, and Argentina, you think Kane could get games when he is competing with the likes of Messi, Aguero, Tevez, Higuain? Give it a couple of years and Dybala will have surpassed Kane I'm quite sure of it.

For what it's worth I wouldn't have Griezmann at £80m either, so again, I'm not saying Kane is crap, because he's clearly not, he's just not going to be worth what Spurs will want for him.

P.s I only sniff glue on weekends.
Click to expand...

I'm delighted to hear this tbh - the more Utd fans don't want Kane the better imo. He's ours.
 
Dobbs said:
Maybe I'm being harsh here but today's No.9's (the good one's) should be scoring 20 league goals.

Unlike Shearer and Cole they don't have a striker next to them hunting down the same opportunities. There's a certain number of easy goals each season that previously two strikers had to share out. For Kane, Zlatan, Costa etc there's only them in the box, waiting for a tap in.
Click to expand...

Easy to say that but when you look at the records of strikers there are actually very few who have hit +20 goals per season on a regular basis. If Kane manages to get +20 for his third season in a row which looks likely he will already be in a very select (and small) group of strikers who have played in the Premiership who have managed it.
 
balaks said:
I'm delighted to hear this tbh - the more Utd fans don't want Kane the better imo. He's ours.
Click to expand...

To be fair fans don't have much say in transfers, but if I did I still wouldn't push the button on that much for Kane, saying that I wouldn't pay what it takes for Griezmann either.
 
yumtum said:
To be fair fans don't have much say in transfers, but if I did I still wouldn't push the button on that much for Kane, saying that I wouldn't pay what it takes for Griezmann either.
Click to expand...

Griezmann is a good player but I agree that his likely transfer fee will be much higher than he is actually worth. The problem is that there just are not that many top level strikers available at the moment. I'm not convinced he even is a top level striker either tbh. Will he score 20+ goals per season if he goes to Utd? It's not a certainty.
 
balaks said:
Griezmann is a good player but I agree that his likely transfer fee will be much higher than he is actually worth. The problem is that there just are not that many top level strikers available at the moment. I'm not convinced he even is a top level striker either tbh. Will he score 20+ goals per season if he goes to Utd? It's not a certainty.
Click to expand...

20+? Just in the Premier League or total? In total, Griezmann at United, he'll score 20+ easily.
 
balaks said:
Easy to say that but when you look at the records of strikers there are actually very few who have hit +20 goals per season on a regular basis. If Kane manages to get +20 for his third season in a row which looks likely he will already be in a very select (and small) group of strikers who have played in the Premiership who have managed it.
Click to expand...

That's what I'm saying though mate. It was harder in the past. Shearer had Les Ferdinand and Sutton taking a big chunk of the goals. As a result not many hit the 20 mark consistently. Those chances now exclusively fall to the one centre forward. Kane, Costa and Zlatan should be filling their boots.

I think we need to re evaluate what constitutes a good goal target now football has switched to just one up front.
 
Dobbs said:
That's what I'm saying though mate. It was harder in the past. Shearer had Les Ferdinand and Sutton taking a big chunk of the goals. As a result not many hit the 20 mark consistently. Those chances now exclusively fall to the one centre forward. Kane, Costa and Zlatan should be filling their boots.

I think we need to re evaluate what constitutes a good goal target now football has switched to just one up front.
Click to expand...

You do of course realise that when defenders have one striker to mark rather than two that makes it much more difficult for that striker to get space without a striking partner making runs and creating space?

Your argument is flimsy at best tbh. Even if you had a point, where are all these No. 9's scoring 20+ goals regularly if it's that much easier?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.