Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic

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noodlehair said:
Evra hit the post and had another great chance, Tevez blocked a goalbound header for some reason, Ronaldo scuffed a decent chance, and came close with another, Campbell made a brilliant clearnce from Nani's cross.

All in the same 10-15 minute spell. We suddenly went from being slow and laboured to looking fecking great
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All actually created when Ronaldo was moved central with his touches/flicks and hold up play. Many of the incidents were with Hargreaves on the pitch - Tevez and him were subbed off together.Your hatred for Hargreaves has blinded you so much that you cant even recognize that fact. We created nothing much after that.

Carrick had nothing to do with any of the chances you mention. In fact the only pass he attempted more than 5 yards long was a wayward ball to Rooney out wide that gave possession back to Pompey
 
I thought Hargreaves was pretty good today, he didn't really make any tackles but he was solid and gave us a platform. On another day we could've scored three or four, we hit the post, missed a load of sitters etc.
 
WesBrownIsAGod said:
TBH, there's gotta be some reason that Ferguson's gone out on a limb and signed this player, thats the bottom line.
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He's made plenty of poor midfield signings. No one's perfect.

He spent two years persisting with Veron, who was rubbish, and cost more than Hargreaves.

If he persists with this for two years, I may have to sneak into Hargreaves's house during the night, and tattoo "I love Celtic" on his forhead
 
Plechazunga said:
I thought Hargreaves was pretty good today, he didn't really make any tackles but he was solid and gave us a platform. On another day we could've scored three or four, we hit the post, missed a load of sitters etc.
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Most of that happened after he went off
 
No doubt towards the end there was more urgency but that's because we were a goal down due to a moment of madness.
 
noodlehair said:
Evra hit the post and had another great chance, Tevez blocked a goalbound header for some reason, Ronaldo scuffed a decent chance, and came close with another, Campbell made a brilliant clearnce from Nani's cross.

All in the same 10-15 minute spell. We suddenly went from being slow and laboured to looking fecking great

Prior to that, we'd created nothing, other than the penalty shout. The only other chance was when Pompey had their own spastic episode in the first half. If Hargreaves was still on the pitch, I doubt he'd have stopped the goal. He was already guilty of clowning around and letting Baros run clean through. If the ref wasn't such a clown, that could easily have replaced the penalty as our self destruction moment
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It's true that we loked far more cohesive and threatening after Carrick and Anderson came on, but we had ample chances to win it before that, not least Wayne and Carlos's little joint spack-attack.
 
Instant Karma said:
Carrick had nothing to do with any of the chances you mention. In fact the only pass he attempted more than 5 yards long was a wayward ball to Rooney out wide that gave possession back to Pompey
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I didn't say anything about Carrick

You're right about Tevez, still, we definitely looked a lot more like scoring after the substitutions. All of those chances came late-ish in the second half.
 
AttackingFlair said:
No doubt towards the end there was more urgency but that's because we were a goal down due to a moment of madness.
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Chances were all before the goal. After it we just panicked, and created nothing

Plechazunga said:
It's true that we loked far more cohesive and threatening after Carrick and Anderson came on, but we had ample chances to win it before that, not least Wayne and Carlos's little joint spack-attack.
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We had about three, which is pretty fecking poor against a team who do nothing but defend all game. True we could have put one of them away, we could also have put one of the later ones away...we didn't.

Portsmouth were ridiculously lucky, but I reckon if we'd played how we did after the subs, for the whole game, they'd have been a few goals down, easily
 
noodlehair said:
We had about three, which is pretty fecking poor against a team who do nothing but defend all game. True we could have put one of them away, we could also have put one of the later ones away...we didn't.

Portsmouth were ridiculously lucky, but I reckon if we'd played how we did after the subs, for the whole game, they'd have been a few goals down, easily
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They did defend well though, they all look like trees. Yeah, we'd have been better with a more dynamic midfield, but it's harsh to blame Hargreaves on this occasion, when Scholes didn't turn up at all and the forwards squandered very good chances (Tevez' was an open goal).
 
noodlehair said:
I didn't say anything about Carrick

You're right about Tevez, still, we definitely looked a lot more like scoring after the substitutions. All of those chances came late-ish in the second half.
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We dominated Pompey with Hargreaves on the pitch and created numerous chances. Ronaldo missed a header from a Nani cross as well which isnt listed below. If any other midfielder had played instead of Scholes or if we had taken our chances, we would have won.

The only clear chance we created after Hargreaves was subbed off was the Carrick one. Evra hitting the post from 30 yards out was not really a chance.

1415: Fergie makes a double change, Anderson and Michael Carrick on for Carlos Tevez and Owen Hargreaves.

1414: Another stunning move from United ends with Patrice Evra bursting into the box. Instead of shooting, he pulls the ball back - behind Cristiano Ronaldo.

1413: "Just not happening for United. Beautiful move but Ronaldo should have put that in by his standards!! Sums the day up so far!"

1413: Lovely interchange from Rooney and Ronaldo, the pair backheeling to one another before the latter shoots wide.

1405: So close. Nemanja Vidic's header from a corner bounces off Carlos Tevez's chest. The Argentine goes down, prompting a few penalty shouts, before the ball comes out to Cristiano Ronaldo, whose low shot skims narrowly wide.

1404: "We've hardly seen Paul Scholes so far."

1334: Corner to United. David James doesn't get it but Glen Johnson clears.

1332: It's tipping down at Old Trafford. Portsmouth are now struggling to hold onto the ball but they are defending well. Into added time at the end of the first half.

1325: Wayne Rooney is a very angry young man. The striker boots the ball high into the crowd after losing control in the penalty area.

1311: "United look like they can score as many as they like but they just seem to be over-complicating things."

1308: "WHY DIDN'T ROONEY BURY THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!"Good question.

1307: Goodness. United break with two against one. Wayne Rooney goes round the keeper but is tackled by Sol Campbell. The ball rebounds to Carlos Tevez but Glen Johnson is on the line to head the shot away.

1257: Wayne Rooney is still bending Martin Atkinson's ear about that non-penalty. United have a free-kick about 25 yards out - but Owen Hargreaves takes it and puts it straight into the wall.

1255: Huge penalty shout. Wayne Rooney delivers a glorious pass to Cristiano Ronaldo out right. The winger controls brilliantly and bursts into the box where he is barged off the ball by Sylvain Distin. Referee Martin Atkinson says no. Looked a clear penalty to me.
 
noodlehair said:
He's made plenty of poor midfield signings. No one's perfect.

He spent two years persisting with Veron, who was rubbish, and cost more than Hargreaves.

If he persists with this for two years, I may have to sneak into Hargreaves's house during the night, and tattoo "I love Celtic" on his forhead
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:lol:

Ferguson should just bring him on to shut down a game, rather than play him from the start, he's more than a bit shit in general, but the fact reamins, he was alright today, not shocking by any stretch of the imagination
 
noodlehair said:
Chances were all before the goal. After it we just panicked, and created nothing



We had about three, which is pretty fecking poor against a team who do nothing but defend all game. True we could have put one of them away, we could also have put one of the later ones away...we didn't.

Portsmouth were ridiculously lucky, but I reckon if we'd played how we did after the subs, for the whole game, they'd have been a few goals down, easily
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To be fair, we wouldn't have expected the finishing to be this poor on the day, could've quite easily happened even if it was how it was like with the subs for the full 90.
 
WesBrownIsAGod said:
:lol:

Ferguson should just bring him on to shut down a game, rather than play him from the start, he's more than a bit shit in general, but the fact reamins, he was alright today, not shocking by any stretch of the imagination
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He's not 'more than a bit shit'. He's average. If everyone just accepted this obvious truth, there'd be no need for a fifty-page thread.
 
Plechazunga said:
They did defend well though, they all look like trees. Yeah, we'd have been better with a more dynamic midfield, but it's harsh to blame Hargreaves on this occasion, when Scholes didn't turn up at all and the forwards squandered very good chances (Tevez' was an open goal).
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Our forwards have been squadering easy chances all season. We usually create so many that it doesn't make all that much difference.

I'm not blaming Hargreaves for us losing either. It was a stupid game.

I thought again though, he was at best pointless, and in the second half he was getting found out, by Portsmouth.

What does he actually do? Near as I can figure, something between very little, and make us rubbish
 
WesBrownIsAGod said:
:lol:

Ferguson should just bring him on to shut down a game, rather than play him from the start, he's more than a bit shit in general, but the fact reamins, he was alright today, not shocking by any stretch of the imagination
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Would Fletcher not be at least as good an option to do that? Especially considering he's a better passer?
 
kf said:
There was one passage of play today where he ran along the half way line, played a hospital pass to Evra who somehow managed to retain possession and play it back to him. He then gave it to Rio. The crowd applauded. God knows why. If he'd given it to Rio in the first place like he usually does it would have wasted less time.
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:lol: true that
 
It really says something though when your midfielder is passing it back to your centre back because even he is a better passer and better user of the ball.
 
Hargreaves was ok today. Nothing spectacular, distinctly average. Unfortunately Scholes had a 'mare. He was a passenger in the game and should've been subbed off instead of Hargreaves.
 
I hope to see Scholes - Carrick again in the near future. Then it'll be clear to see if Scholes is in awful form, or just in awful form in playing next to Hargreaves.
 
Plechazunga said:
He runs about
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Great

So does Kuyt

Lets pay twenty million for him, then select him ahead of much better players, and convince ourselves that we need him to help us defend

Hang on...isn't that exactly what Liverpool have done?
 
Ekeke said:
Would Fletcher not be at least as good an option to do that? Especially considering he's a better passer?
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probably. This dimension can't be overlooked.

Ferguson has been banging on about Fletcher being a really good player, who deserves games, and will get chances etc etc for feckin years on end, this back in the time when Fletcher was getting stick regularly, right. And then he goes off and buys Hargreaves for feckin nearly 20mill, I just don't get it.
 
WesBrownIsAGod said:
probably. This dimension can't be overlooked.

Ferguson has been banging on about Fletcher being a really good player, who deserves games, and will get chances etc etc for feckin years on end, this back in the time when Fletcher was getting stick regularly, right. And then he goes off and buys Hargreaves for feckin nearly 20mill, I just don't get it.
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Right now I view Hargreaves as Fletcher's cover... Which makes Fletcher an £18 million+ player :lol:

Again I shall say I hope and suspect Hargreaves will come back a much, much better player next season provided he stays fit. Because if he doesnt, he probably won't play any matches.
 
you all know i like hargreaves and all, but for this match we really didn't need him. carrick or anderson should have started, and did scholes even play today?
 
WesBrownIsAGod said:
he was feckin brilliant against Fulham, mate, and that was alongside Hargreaves.
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I'm not saying they cant play together. Of all the partnerships, Hargreaves + Scholes should be one of the two most balanced (even if it is too defined imo)

But Scholes has been very poor recently when playing with players other than Carrick.
 
Instant Karma said:
All actually created when Ronaldo was moved central with his touches/flicks and hold up play. Many of the incidents were with Hargreaves on the pitch - Tevez and him were subbed off together.Your hatred for Hargreaves has blinded you so much that you cant even recognize that fact. We created nothing much after that.

Carrick had nothing to do with any of the chances you mention. In fact the only pass he attempted more than 5 yards long was a wayward ball to Rooney out wide that gave possession back to Pompey
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Spot on
 
If we want to win anything this season then hargreaves has to play every match left.He reads the game better than anyone and he breaks up opposition attacks time and time again.I dont believe hargreaves would have allowed portsmouth to hit us with a sucker punch like that.
 
skysplitter said:
If we want to win anything this season then hargreaves has to play every match left.He reads the game better than anyone and he breaks up opposition attacks time and time again.I dont believe hargreaves would have allowed portsmouth to hit us with a sucker punch like that.
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anyone who agrees with this say ey, i'll be back in half an hour to laugh at youse.
 
Hargreaves is steadily improving imo...but why does Carrick not start, the guy works class with Scholes, we are just in free flow in the midfield when they two play together.
 
WesBrownIsAGod said:
probably. This dimension can't be overlooked.

Ferguson has been banging on about Fletcher being a really good player, who deserves games, and will get chances etc etc for feckin years on end, this back in the time when Fletcher was getting stick regularly, right. And then he goes off and buys Hargreaves for feckin nearly 20mill, I just don't get it.
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that is just about the crux of the issue. I have no personal angst with hargreaves, think he is a great defensive minded midfield player. But after we got Anderdon, Fletcher naturally makes up the compliment.

We prob could have got benzema last summer for the 16m we spent on Hargreaves.

The reason this is a 50+ page thread is that we do not need a player bought only to play in the CL and then NOT play in the CL (eg this week vs Lyon)!!

Fletch looks like he is ready to step up. Not sure how this will work until Scholes retires and gives way to more opportunities for the other players.
 
Psmith said:
Hargreaves was ok today. Nothing spectacular, distinctly average. Unfortunately Scholes had a 'mare. He was a passenger in the game and should've been subbed off instead of Hargreaves.
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Both should've been brought off. Not that Hargreaves played badly because as has already been pointed out Scholes was far far worse just that we needed to make a change to win the game. For me the mistake was bringing Tevez off.
 
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