Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic

[Instant Karma]

that is just about the crux of the issue. I have no personal angst with hargreaves, think he is a great defensive minded midfield player. But after we got Anderdon, Fletcher naturally makes up the compliment.

We prob could have got benzema last summer for the 16m we spent on Hargreaves.

The reason this is a 50+ page thread is that we do not need a player bought only to play in the CL and then NOT play in the CL (eg this week vs Lyon)!!

Fletch looks like he is ready to step up. Not sure how this will work until Scholes retires and gives way to more opportunities for the other players.

1. Fletch has had a couple of good performances against a weak Arsenal team and the worst side in the league at the moment - Newcastle. But he is mostly hit or miss.
2. Anderson was a talent but SAF didnt think he will be a regular for the first two seasons. I guess he was identified by Queiroz to play further forward in a 4-3-3.

The mistake SAF made was not the Hargreaves signing but buying Tevez instead of Torres.

 

[Sam]

1. Fletch has had a couple of good performances against a weak Arsenal team and the worst side in the league at the moment - Newcastle. But he is mostly hit or miss.
2. Anderson was a talent but SAF didnt think he will be a regular for the first two seasons. I guess he was identified by Queiroz to play further forward in a 4-3-3.

The mistake SAF made was not the Hargreaves signing but buying Tevez instead of Torres.

The mistake he made was not signing Tevez + 1 other striker. Signing Tevez was a masterstroke, it was not signing someone else that was/is the problem. Christ, I dread to think where we would be this season without Carlos.

He put blind faith in Saha, and it hasn't paid off.

 

[sammsky1]

The mistake SAF made was not the Hargreaves signing but buying Tevez instead of Torres.

I am slowly beginning to agree with you. Would love to know what changed SAF's mind on Torres as I refuse to believe that if we'd wanted him, he'd have gone to Liverpool instead.

 

[Instant Karma]

The mistake he made was not signing Tevez + 1 other striker. Signing Tevez was a masterstroke, it was not signing someone else that was/is the problem. Christ, I dread to think where we would be this season without Carlos.

He put blind faith in Saha, and it hasn't paid off.

Tevez is a luxury signing. The fact that SAF doesnt think he should start in the CL speaks for itself. We would have been fine with Torres instead of Tevez. He is scoring freely in an average Liverpool side and playing as a lone striker. All those games we struggled with Rooney injured and Tevez leading the line, we would have been far better with Torres.

We would have destroyed teams with Torres-Rooney. Add Ronaldo's form to the equation and we would have been invincible.

 

[ecantona7]

The mistake he made was not signing Tevez + 1 other striker. Signing Tevez was a masterstroke, it was not signing someone else that was/is the problem. Christ, I dread to think where we would be this season without Carlos.

He put blind faith in Saha, and it hasn't paid off.

what he said.

Also, torres did not want to come here. I don't understand how people can't get that through their heads.

 

[Sam]

Tevez is a luxury signing. The fact that SAF doesnt think he should start in the CL speaks for itself. We would have been fine with Torres instead of Tevez. He is scoring freely in an average Liverpool side and playing as a lone striker

We would have destroyed teams with Torres-Rooney. Add Ronaldo's form to the equation and we would have been invincible.

Fergie put faith in Saha staying fit and didn't know Ole was going to retire.

Had we had Tevez, Rooney, Ole and Saha we would have been fine. Problem is, Saha was never going to stay fit, and Fergie got it wrong. We should have signed 2 strikers and dumped Loius when we had the chance.

As I say, Tevez + 1 other would have been perfect. We'll just have to get that one other in the Summer.

Had we signed Torres, we would still have the problem of only having 2 stiekrs.

 

[CantonaVeron]

Tevez is a luxury signing. The fact that SAF doesnt think he should start in the CL speaks for itself. We would have been fine with Torres instead of Tevez. He is scoring freely in an average Liverpool side and playing as a lone striker. All those games we struggled with Rooney injured and Tevez leading the line, we would have been far better with Torres.

We would have destroyed teams with Torres-Rooney. Add Ronaldo's form to the equation and we would have been invincible.

I agree with this to a certain extend, Its not just specifically Torres but more the type of striker he is if we are going to play most of our key matches with one up top it would have been much to better to have Rooney Ronaldo and one of Giggs and Nani behind a lone striker, Ferguson obviously had more confidence in Saha than anyone else.

 

[Sam]

what he said.

Also, torres did not want to come here. I don't understand how people can't get that through their heads.

I know, People seem to think that every has to want to join us, because we are Manchester United.

Torres didn't, deal with it!

 

[Ekeke]

1. Fletch has had a couple of good performances against a weak Arsenal team and the worst side in the league at the moment - Newcastle. But he is mostly hit or miss.
2. Anderson was a talent but SAF didnt think he will be a regular for the first two seasons. I guess he was identified by Queiroz to play further forward in a 4-3-3.

The mistake SAF made was not the Hargreaves signing but buying Tevez instead of Torres.

And what if it was a choice between Tevez + Hargreaves or Fernando Torres alone?

Price wise that comes out about the same. We spent a lot of cash in the summer.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The four minutes they played together in a full strength side, we could (should?) have scored three goals: Carrick, Evra and Ronaldo (the last one cleared off the line by Campbell, which led to the corner).

In first half we could have had 5. We had 3 goals stopped by desperate off the line defending from Pompey in first half. Your playing deluded if you think playing Carrick with Scholes improved at tremendously before we conceded. Scholes in particular was even poorer wen Carrick was brought on. That is even one of the reason's Carrick was caught upfield on that corner. He was playing both center midfield roles on his own!.

It was neither Carrick nor Scholes fault that we conceded (nor Hargreaves for that matter). We shouldn't be playing a striker and our smallest midfielder as our only defenders, even when we're having a corner.

It's the fault of our defenders alright. Carrick's to a much lesser extent though (after all he was playing scholes' role for him!) We have no business being hit on the counter like that. With 2 top class center halves and a holding midfielder on pitch. Period

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Tevez is a luxury signing. The fact that SAF doesnt think he should start in the CL speaks for itself. We would have been fine with Torres instead of Tevez. He is scoring freely in an average Liverpool side and playing as a lone striker. All those games we struggled with Rooney injured and Tevez leading the line, we would have been far better with Torres.

We would have destroyed teams with Torres-Rooney. Add Ronaldo's form to the equation and we would have been invincible.

It's had to argue with this. If we had Torres leading the line today, or vs Lyon, in midweek, even without another striker on pitch we would have been far better off. I still think though we should have got rid of balsa wood Saha last summer and brought in Tevez and Torres. Tevez isn't a luxury signing because he has saved our arses time and again this season. But that's that.

Next summer a lead the line forward, capable of scoring goals regularly has to be the priority.

 

[DiaboliQue]

The hatred towards Hargreaves is doing your heads lads. The reason we lost this game is because our forwards are rubbish at finishing.

But go ahead and lay the blame on Hargreaves, surely the fact that Rooney was utterly rubbish and that Tevez put in a pathetic display have nothing to do with us getting knocked out.

 

[Ekeke]

The hatred towards Hargreaves is doing your heads lads. The reason we lost this game is because our forwards are rubbish at finishing.

But go ahead and lay the blame on Hargreaves, surely the fact that Rooney was utterly rubbish and that Tevez put in a pathetic display have nothing to do with us getting knocked out.

Carrick can win a match. Hargreaves cannot. When those players are having an off day its good when there are other match winners on the pitch.

 

[Sam]

It's had to argue with this. If we had Torres leading the line today, or vs Lyon, in midweek, even without another striker on pitch we would have been far better off. I still think though we should have got rid of balsa wood Saha last summer and brought in Tevez and Torres. Tevez isn't a luxury signing because he has saved our arses time and again this season. But that's that.

Next summer a lead the line forward, capable of scoring goals regularly has to be the priority.

I agree 100%!

 

[Ekeke]

It's had to argue with this. If we had Torres leading the line today, or vs Lyon, in midweek, even without another striker on pitch we would have been far better off. I still think though we should have got rid of balsa wood Saha last summer and brought in Tevez and Torres. Tevez isn't a luxury signing because he has saved our arses time and again this season. But that's that.

Next summer a lead the line forward, capable of scoring goals regularly has to be the priority.

Torres - £21 million + Garcia who is worth around £5 million = £26 million
Tevez - £6 million for 2 years
Anderson - Rising to £17 million?
Nani - Rising to £17 million?
Hargreaves - £18 million

That's what we should have bought last summer?

Has it occured to you that maybe SAF wasn't given a budget of £84 million to spend on players?

So Chief, what would you choose?

Hargreaves + Tevez or Torres alone?

 

[Instant Karma]

I still think though we should have got rid of balsa wood Saha last summer and brought in Tevez and Torres.

FFS...we cant have strikers of the quality of Rooney, Tevez and Torres with one on the bench.

We cant also sell Saha when he is injured. The only way out is to cut his contract and let him leave which would be stupid.

 

[Sam]

feck Sake!

Torres Didn't Want To Sign For Us!!!

Get over it!!!

 

[Sam]

FFS...we cant have strikers of the quality of Rooney, Tevez and Torres with one on the bench.

We cant also sell Saha when he is injured. The only way out is to cut his contract and let him leave.

Bolton offered us £7 million for him.

 

[DiaboliQue]

Torres - £21 million + Garcia who is worth around £5 million = £26 million
Tevez - £6 million for 2 years
Anderson - Rising to £17 million?
Nani - Rising to £17 million?
Hargreaves - £18 million

That's what we should have bought last summer?

Has it occured to you that maybe SAF wasn't given a budget of £84 million to spend on players?

So Chief, what would you choose?

Hargreaves + Tevez or Torres alone?

That's not even a fair question. Torres looks as sure a bet as any player I've seen to jell with out team instantly and score a zillion goals for us.

 

[VP]

The mistake SAF made was not the Hargreaves signing but buying Tevez instead of Torres.

Agree with this. Although I'm not sure if it's Fergie's fault, he clearly wanted him. Torres stupidly chose Liverpool. If we had him instead of Tevez, we'd have been unstoppable.

 

[Ekeke]

FFS...we cant have strikers of the quality of Rooney, Tevez and Torres with one on the bench.

We cant also sell Saha when he is injured. The only way out is to cut his contract and let him leave which would be stupid.

Or accept the bid of £7 million in Jan...?

 

[Instant Karma]

Torres Didn't Want To Sign For Us!!!

If you say so. Dont believe everything in the tabloids about players (Torres, Adebeyor, Anelka) rejecting Man Utd and signing for Arsenal/Liverpool/Chelsea

 

[Sam]

Look at the long term people. OK, this season, we MAY have POSSIBLY, been doing better.

But in the long term, buying Tevez was the correct decision. Not that it mattered, Torres didn't want to sign for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ekeke]

That's not even a fair question. Torres looks as sure a bet as any player I've seen to jell with out team instantly and score a zillion goals for us.

How is it not a fair question? The two of Hargreaves and Tevez cost us less than signing Torres alone. We surely don't have an endless supply of cash, so maybe there is a reason why we didnt sign another striker in the Summer :

We had no fookin' cash left after spending 58 million on new players

I won't deny Torres has been fantastic for Liverpool. But for most of this season Tevez has been very good and very important to us too. I don't rate Hargreaves and even I think its hard to choose between the two deals.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Torres - £21 million + Garcia who is worth around £5 million = £26 million
Tevez - £6 million for 2 years
Anderson - Rising to £17 million?
Nani - Rising to £17 million?
Hargreaves - £18 million

That's what we should have bought last summer?

Has it occured to you that maybe SAF wasn't given a budget of £84 million to spend on players?

So Chief, what would you choose?

Hargreaves + Tevez or Torres alone?

Don't waste my time. We had the money to buy a Torres. We just didn't bother because we chose to keep hold of balsa wood Saha. Selling Rossi and Smith and refusing to bring in a replacement was just dead stupid. Besides Torres was not the only good striker available. We let Suazo go to Inter on the cheap and Toni end up at Bayern.

 

[Instant Karma]

Or accept the bid of £7 million in Jan...?

Why? There was no decent striker available in Jan even if we had accepted the 7 million. It is better to keep him even if we get just 10 games in the second half of the season from him.

We sold Rossi, Smith, Ole retired and Saha is injury prone. We just bought Tevez who doesnt even play in the CL.

 

[Ekeke]

Don't waste my time. We had the money to buy a Torres. We just didn't bother because we chose to keep hold of balsa wood Saha.

So you expect us to spend £84 million on players each summer

 

[Ekeke]

Why? There was no decent striker available in Jan even if we had accepted the 7 million. It is better to keep him even if we get just 10 games in the second half of the season from him.

We sold Rossi, Smith, Ole retired and Saha is injury prone. We just bought Tevez who doesnt play in the CL.

You just said the only way to get rid of him is to cancel his contract and let him walk for free. There was clearly another option in Jan where we could have recouped some amount of what we paid for him.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

FFS...we cant have strikers of the quality of Rooney, Tevez and Torres with one on the bench.

We could easily have played all three in a 4-2-3-1

We cant also sell Saha when he is injured. The only way out is to cut his contract and let him leave which would be stupid.

Just this January alone we had an offer of 7 million when he was still injured. It would have been the same case in the summer. Bottom line letting Rossi and Smith go and bring in no one while keeping Saha as cover was a disaster waiting to happen. I hope it doesn't cost us this season overall.

 

[Instant Karma]

You just said the only way to get rid of him is to cancel his contract and let him walk for free. There was clearly another option in Jan where we could have recouped some amount of what we paid for him.

SAF isnt interested in recouping cash but in winning trophies. How would selling Saha in Jan and not having a backup striker be any different to him being injured?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

So you expect us to spend £84 million on players each summer

Trust you to come up with such drivel from what I said. If you are just going act like an idiot just don't freaking bother me. I'm not in the mood for you childishness.

 

[Sam]

Why? There was no decent striker available in Jan even if we had accepted the 7 million. It is better to keep him even if we get just 10 games in the second half of the season from him.

We sold Rossi, Smith, Ole retired and Saha is injury prone..

*cough*Anelka*cough*

We just bought Tevez who doesnt even play in the CL

Yes he does. He didn't start against Lyon, but given that we played 1 upfront, it would have been pretty hard for him.

Don't forget, take Tevez out of the equation, and we might not even be in the CL anymore!

 

[Instant Karma]

We could easily have played all three in a 4-2-3-1

I'd rather play Nani out wide with Nani-Rooney-Ronaldo behind a main striker rather than play Tevez wide. He doesnt have much pace or cant go past players ,he wont be any good out wide as West Ham found out.

Just this January alone we had an offer of 7 million when he was still injured.

He wouldnt have cleared the medical. Even otherwise, there is no point in selling without having another striker lined up. Only decent option was Anelka and Chelsea had signed him up.

 

[Sam]

We could easily have played all three in a 4-2-3-1
.

I'm seriously hoping that we play Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and ???, all in the same line up next season.

We'd be unstopable!

 

[Ekeke]

Trust you to come up with such drivel from what I said. If you are just going act like an idiot just don't freaking bother me. I'm not in the mood for you childishness.

Rather than deny it, you insult me. I see how it is now So who should we spend £84 million on this summer Chief? Perhaps we could sign Messi for that.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I'd rather play Nani out wide with Nani-Rooney-Ronaldo behind a main striker rather than play Tevez wide. He doesnt have much pace or cant go past players ,he wont be any good out wide as West Ham found out.

We've already done it in some games this season and have been very good. Villa away in the league springs to mind.

He wouldnt have cleared the medical. Even otherwise, there is no point in selling without having another striker lined up. Only decent option was Anelka and Chelsea had signed him up.

We could have signed Anelka before Chelsea. We just didn't bother to try. Which is the problem.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Rather than deny it, you insult me. I see how it is now

Why should I bother to freaking deny something I never EVER said in the first place? As if the need to defend myself exists?

So who should we spend £84 million on this summer Chief? Perhaps we could sign Messi for that.

Grow up. You're worse than a spoilt toddler.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I'm seriously hoping that we play Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and ???, all in the same line up next season.

We'd be unstopable!

Agreed

 

[Instant Karma]

Enough of the Tevez-Torres discussion in the Hargreaves thread. There are other threads for that or start another Torres vs Tevez thread

 

[Sam]

Agreed

We may not agree on Hargreaves, yet.

But we sure agree on other things.