Oh, tell that non existent brother of yours his account no longer exists.
Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic
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Exactly. You can't magically endow a footballer with technical ability.
He doesn't need to play like Ronaldo to be classed as a good enough player for United. If he performs like he did at Anfield, he'll do alright.
That is the same stuff people said about Vidic and Evra. I was proved very right then. That wont change now. No matter how badly you wish it will. Time is on my side. Hargreaves' reputation wasn't got from thin air. As people like you think.
Like I some how give a shit
Reminds me of a poem by Roger McGough that has a schizoid scouser with one half Red and one half Blue "It was argue, argue all the way home".
No. Most of you have been saying he has never been as good, is rubbish and shouldn't have been signed. Once you're proved wrong you wont have earned the right to be delighted. Just the right to swallow your words. for I intend to dedicate a whole thread to that at the appointed time. Provided I'm still alive and health that is, God willing
You also claimed Richardson was as talented as Giggs.
The only players I have criticised for lack of talent on the Caf are Heinze, (Heinze, when he had star status on the Caf) Smith and Ralph Milne.
I made this point in another thread.
Hargreaves' passing has improved significantly since the start of the season.
As his form has improved and his confidence has grown his passing has become more ambitious. He has taken less time on the ball and he hasn't always made the simple easy sideways or backwards pass.
Will Hargreaves ever be an amazing passer? Who is to say. However you cannot tell me that he hasn't improved. You also cannot tell me that someone who is able to take the free kicks he can has poor touch. His ability to strike a ball from a set piece is to some extent indicative of what his passing touch can be like.
He developed in a very strict regimented German factory. His job was to win his team possession, directly or indirectly. If he came into possession of the ball he was to offload it to a more offensive player.
If we want him to become more adventurous these are habits he will have to be given time to adjust. Surely I am not the only one who saw him play a couple Carrickesque longer balls against Lyon, as well as a couple mid ranged attacking passes as well as his adventure to the edge of the Lyon area where he flicked it on for Rooney.
Given time he will be able to adapt his zero creativity German style of play to the United style. He has already made some strides and I imagine he will continue to evolve and adapt.
Hargreaves' passing has improved significantly since the start of the season.
As his form has improved and his confidence has grown his passing has become more ambitious. He has taken less time on the ball and he hasn't always made the simple easy sideways or backwards pass.
Will Hargreaves ever be an amazing passer? Who is to say. However you cannot tell me that he hasn't improved. You also cannot tell me that someone who is able to take the free kicks he can has poor touch. His ability to strike a ball from a set piece is to some extent indicative of what his passing touch can be like.
He developed in a very strict regimented German factory. His job was to win his team possession, directly or indirectly. If he came into possession of the ball he was to offload it to a more offensive player.
If we want him to become more adventurous these are habits he will have to be given time to adjust. Surely I am not the only one who saw him play a couple Carrickesque longer balls against Lyon, as well as a couple mid ranged attacking passes as well as his adventure to the edge of the Lyon area where he flicked it on for Rooney.
Given time he will be able to adapt his zero creativity German style of play to the United style. He has already made some strides and I imagine he will continue to evolve and adapt.
Like I some how give a shit
For those not in the know, the Chief and Kemo kept logging on and off to agree with "each other".
I still do. I also said Ronaldo was as good as Rooney. Vidic and Evra were world class against hefty opposition on the cafe,, Rossi is a fantastic talent, which he is proving in Spain, Nani and Anderson were superb talents who were must signings, especially Anderson. Show me how I've been proved wrong so far?
Forgeting Hargreaves eh...
The only player I've ever criticised for lack of talent is Roy Carrol. When I criticise Carrick it has nothing to do with lack of talent. Just weaknessses that exist in his game. There in lies the huge difference between you and me.
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Spot on
Improved from what?
What form?
He's been consistently average throughout the season.
Fletcher looks more an 18 Million player than Hargreaves.
I don't think he is unnecessary at all right now.
I also didn't say they were completely related, striking a ball and first touch. To argue that there isn't some correlation in regards to potential however would be foolish.
There is obviously some correlation. He has also shown a fine first touch when he brings it out for a pass. It is when he controls the ball for himself that he likes to seemingly knock it on a bit and run onto it. He is already doing it far less than he was at the start of the season.
If you recall he was doing those dummy the ball type runs when he'd receive a ball ALL the time at the start of the season. I don't think I've seen him do it in 2 or 3 matches now.
It was probably something that worked for him in Germany where across the board the talent level wasn't as high. I think he has recognized that it isn't as effective here and so he has put it away.
Of course he will probably prove me wrong and do it 4 or 5 times in the next match ;p I won't hold it against you if you rub my nose in it ;p
Why don't you explain exactly what Fletcher has done consistently over the season to make him look better than Hargreaves.
It was just over the christmas break that Carrick was looking shocking and being called on it here. Now he is playing well and he is back to being our best CM.
The Caf has more mood swings than Hillary Clinton. It isn't a what have you done consistently community, it is a what have you done in the last 25 seconds community.
Hargreaves has consistently be given a top 3 MoM rating by many people all season long.
How many appearances has Fletcher made and how many people rated him MoM. Lets compare that to Hargreaves.
I think you will find your opinion in the minority. Minority is probably being generous.
Kemo hasn't logged in for a month or two now. So much for your theory that he logs in to argee with me always
For those not in the know, the Chief and Kemo kept logging on and off to agree with "each other".
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Correct, again
Fletchers has done more in 2 games (Arsenal/Newcastle) than Hargreaves has done in a season.
Check the MoM sticky, Hargreaves has not consistently been rated in the top three.
You'll find out that on the caf, as in life, it's quality not quantity that counts. look at who is saying what not how many.
No wonder the "Love Carrick hate Hargreaves" brigade is so large. Thanks for the clarification
That's because you were caught.
No one hates Hargreaves, why should they?
It's his footballing ability we have debating.
That accustation has been labelled at me since I started posting on the cafe that I'm Kemo. Over 5 years plus...Now you want to claim "I was caught" taht's why he hasn't posted. You can't be serious.........Ask Mozza
No, you are debating what you "IMAGINE" his footballing ability is. Which isn't the same thing
Accusation?
Like what? Score twice against an under strength Arsenal side in the Cup and wallop a weak Newcastle team? That acroding to you is so much better a perfomance than performing at The Emirates, Anfield and The City of Manchester Stadium , in his first season in a new league, interupted by injuries?
I doubt Mozza has any personal enmity towards Hargreaves.
Sorry, I'm rather confused with your second statement.
Yes. Ever since Kemo had an argument with Ichk and was trying to post on my office computer and ended up posting with my name. That has been the case. So to claim it has just been found out now (or found out at all) is ludicrous. I just happen to use an email address I share with him for this website. On top of sharing a proxy connection with him that doesn't register his IP address when he has logged on in the past. Hence the confusion remain. I'm glad that is now over anyway. He has become too busy to post on here anway
Erm, we have a brilliant record at Anfield, with or without Hargreaves. We lost the game at City. Prove to me United would not have won the game at the Emirates without Hargreaves in the team.
Remind me how many games United have lost this season with Hargreaves in the team? he's been a liability.
So what? Hargreaves had an excellent display as a shield for our defence which is his job. Our record has shit to do with that. Last season Carrick in the same game did nothing. Rio and co were the one's keeping them out.
So what? His perfomance was excellent. It' not his fault we couldn't score
We lost at the Emirates last year without him after taking the lead, with Carrick on pticth having and excellent game. This season we take of Anderson and bring on Carrick and draw. What more proof do you need?
What of the ones we lost with Carrick? We lost to City twice with him present. To Bolton also. Same as all the other playes present during our losses. Does that mean they and he is a liabilty too?
He has a lot below is a typical post of his, about a recent interview of Hargreave. Sumarising his stance perfectly!:
He wasn't even joking .....Mozza said:
furthermore:
Mozza said:
No to mention this his location: "If you like football and like Owen Hargreaves, you have a hole in your soul."
his feelings towards Hargreaves are all to clear. Down right hostile
It's pretty straight forward actually. Read it again.Mozza said:
Can we create a Hargreaves forum, complete with a Tevez subsection?
It would clear up a lot of deadwood from the main forum.
thanks.
It would clear up a lot of deadwood from the main forum.
thanks.
The trouble with this debate is that it just goes round in circles. To me the idea of comparing Hargreaves to Carrick, or indeed vice versa, is just plain silly. They are quite different in what they bring to the team and as a result they compliment each other. I have held all along that Hargreaves is a "limited" midfield player but one that will play a vital role in our team provided he is used correctly. So far that has not been the case - he's hardly strung two games together. That maybe down to injuries or more specifically the tendonitis problem which is a devil to get rid of. It may be that Fergie has employed a rotation policy for the midfield to keep everyone on their toes and to give Anderson his chance.
Only time will resolve this argument but certainly there will be plenty of opportunity during the course of the rest of this season for Hargreaves to make his mark and show his worth. That won't be as a standin for Carrick, Scholes or anyone else. He is his own man and his worth should hopefully become apparent before too long in the upcoming big games
Only time will resolve this argument but certainly there will be plenty of opportunity during the course of the rest of this season for Hargreaves to make his mark and show his worth. That won't be as a standin for Carrick, Scholes or anyone else. He is his own man and his worth should hopefully become apparent before too long in the upcoming big games
It seems as though if there were not this thread there would be one slagging Carrick off, oh wait there is one. Both are absurd especially in Carricks case, as he has proved it last year, in regards to Hargreaves he hasnt been fit all year and that is his main problem, he is not the best player in the world but he was bought as a DM which is a postion United are weak in without him, he isnt the best passer but that isnt part of his game
deleted.
I believe will be class once he gets all the fitness related issues sorted out. However I also believe he will be class in a limited way, i.e. shielding the defense nothing more. For the moment however fletcher has shown that he deserves to be in the starting lineup hence he should start. HArgo is having the inevitable settling in period+injuries but he will come good. SAF isnt a fool he knows what hes doing. But until he does... fletcher> hargreaves and carrick automatic starter.
Btw I wasnt one of those who was jumping on carrick when he had a few rough games. I was more along the lines of ' he needs to be played more consistently to find his form'.
Btw I wasnt one of those who was jumping on carrick when he had a few rough games. I was more along the lines of ' he needs to be played more consistently to find his form'.
This cnut of a thread is gonna break 1000
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