Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic

[Sultan]

About 12 starts spread over 7 months when a player is returning from a year's injury lay off to a new side is the best way to judge him of course.
Get some perspective.

I bet you said Vidic and Evra were shite after 5 games in the season before last.

His injury record was good enough reason why 18 Million should never have been paid. I've always thought Hargreaves was an average player.

I had hardly seen Vidic or Evra play before moving to United. I am not fickle to judge players over a few months at new clubs.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Talk about winning Intertoto Cup proves the Chief has lost the plot.

Yep. I've lost the plot. While people trying to claim Caririck's lack of achievement in his career, is the equivalent of Zidane's not winning things at Bordeaux, or Rio not winning things at Leeds, and Hargreaves' Bayern achievement is equal to fecking David May's at OT have the plot. You are so right

 

[Scholesy]

Cant believe are picking on Hargreaves for conceding goals ala Arsenal game...

He cant stop everything and if he doesnt, you will immediately question him. He is not a machine, hes human and cant stop every goal. Just because hes a DM, doesnt mean we will not concede and if we do, you cant just blame him.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

About 12 starts spread over 7 months when a player is returning from a year's injury lay off to a new side is the best way to judge him of course.
Get some perspective.

I bet you said Vidic and Evra were shite after 5 games in the season before last.

No doubT. They were many who did that. Most of them are currently part of the Hargreaves hating squadron. Unsuprsingly

 

[acnumber9]

Keano and the treble winning team running around like headless chickens leaving half the pitch free -

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhJc0M-lIis

Redondo dominated the game and arguably the best midfield under Fergie was made to look pub class.

If Hargreaves or Carrick had been a part of a team conceding such a goal with not a single player on the right side of the pitch, there would have been a dozen threads calling for their heads. They are not as good as Keane but somehow we still underperfomed year after year at the highest level.

You're 100% correct, which is what Red Indian's attempt to blame our European form on Carrick hard to understand.

If I remember correctly that night Roy Keane was if anything a little too fired up for the game which led to an under par performance from him. In fact had he not been so desperate to win he wouldn't have been stretching for a ball that was clearly going into the keepers arms when he had no need to.

The fact of the matter remains though that it is very unlikely that either Carrick or Hargreaves will ever produce a performance of the sheer class Roy Keane did that famous night in Turin.

 

[Sultan]

Some greens for Plech...

 

[Sam]

He wears his hair (he wears a shirt)
In the German fashion (Woah-oh)
He plays with passion (Woah-oh)
If not aplomb...
He runs about (He runs about)
Like he's lost his car keys (Woah-oh)
He's Owen Hargreaves (Woah-oh)
He cost a bomb

He wears a shirt (he wears a shirt)
With a number four on (Woah-oh)
Looks like a moron (Woah-oh)
Rarely scores goals...
He grows his hair (He grows his hair)
Like a wilted cabbage (Woah-oh)
He's slightly average (Woah-oh)
Unlike Paul Scholes

He plays the role (He plays the role)
Of a water-fetcher (Woah-oh)
Like Darren Fletcher (Woah-oh)
But not so slow...
Paid eighteen mil (Paid eighteen mil)
To a club from Naziland (Woah-oh)
You could buy Swaziland (Woah-oh)
With that much dough

He cost a mil (He cost a mil)
More than Thierry (Woah-oh)
That's fecking scary (Woah-oh)
Quite a risky bet...
He gets stuck in (He gets stuck in)
With a certain gusto (Woah-oh)
But so did Mustoe (Woah-oh)
And what about the debt?

 

[Gazza]

What tune is Plech's song to? I'm sure I know which one he's using but I can't remember the name...

 

[Sam]

Bollocks post. Adebayor never slowed down at all. Hargreaves caught him easily. When the cross comes in, if Vds doesn't come out, Hargreaves was getting to it first. To watch that video and claim that bollocks about Hargreaves's positioning is beyond belief and fecking stupid. Espcial from some one who doesn't want us to hold against Carrick the time Kaka, an attacking mdfielder left him for dead vs Milan. Yet is all to willing to blame Hargreaves for chasing and catching a striker, who should be marked by a center back, namely one Vidic who is conspicuous by his absence in that replay video, during the events that lead to the goal ..

Yet some one will tell me it's abuse to call such a person a major feck wit

Your boring now.

 

[Wes]

Cant believe are picking on Hargreaves for conceding goals ala Arsenal game...

He cant stop everything and if he doesnt, you will immediately question him. He is not a machine, hes human and cant stop every goal. Just because hes a DM, doesnt mean we will not concede and if we do, you cant just blame him.

I'm not, nor is anyone else. I'm merely pointing out that he wasn't absolutely fantastic for 90minutes against Arsenal, though that seems to be the theme emerging from that game, for some reason.

And also, that some posters have absolutely no idea about football.

 

[Instant Karma]

His injury record was good enough reason why 18 Million should never have been paid.

He has suffered a couple of serious injuries only in the last 2 seasons at Bayern. Does a broken leg mean Hargreaves is a sicknote?

Hargreaves established himself as a regular at Bayern in the 01-02 season and made 29, 25, 25 and 27 league appearances in successive seasons until his injury. During the same seasons Ballack made 29, 26, 28 and 27 league appearances and was German player for the year in 3 of those seasons. The Bundesliga doesnt have 20 teams and at Bayern, even Ballack is rotated for rest/suspension or because they have already won the title. Maybe Ballack has a poor injury record too ?

Are we now making up stories about Hargreaves being injury prone to slate our own player ?

Rooney has probably missed more games in his first 4 seasons for us due to being injured than Hargreaves did for Bayern before he broke his leg. Is Rooney a sicknote ?

 

[Mozza]

He wears his hair (he wears a shirt)
In the German fashion (Woah-oh)
He plays with passion (Woah-oh)
If not aplomb...
He runs about (He runs about)
Like he's lost his car keys (Woah-oh)
He's Owen Hargreaves (Woah-oh)
He cost a bomb

He wears a shirt (he wears a shirt)
With a number four on (Woah-oh)
Looks like a moron (Woah-oh)
Rarely scores goals...
He grows his hair (He grows his hair)
Like a wilted cabbage (Woah-oh)
He's slightly average (Woah-oh)
Unlike Paul Scholes

He plays the role (He plays the role)
Of a water-fetcher (Woah-oh)
Like Darren Fletcher (Woah-oh)
But not so slow...
Paid eighteen mil (Paid eighteen mil)
To a club from Naziland (Woah-oh)
You could buy Swaziland (Woah-oh)
With that much dough

He cost a mil (He cost a mil)
More than Thierry (Woah-oh)
That's fecking scary (Woah-oh)
Quite a risky bet...
He gets stuck in (He gets stuck in)
With a certain gusto (Woah-oh)
But so did Mustoe (Woah-oh)
And what about the debt?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You're 100% correct, which is what Red Indian's attempt to blame our European form on Carrick hard to understand.

It isn't. I placed the blame of that on weaknesses of the Carrick-Scholes/Carrick-O'shea partnerships defensively. It only became about Carrick when it was claimed he is superior to Hargreaves in the holding role in midfield. If he was superior, Hargreaves would never have been bought.

If I remember correctly that night Roy Keane was if anything a little too fired up for the game which led to an under par performance from him. In fact had he not been so desperate to win he wouldn't have been stretching for a ball that was clearly going into the keepers arms when he had no need to.

Keane had didn't even have a poor game. He just made one mistake. Score an on goal. Which made us chase the game against a side that was fantastic on the counter. When our defence wasn't the tightest, especially vs a team of REAL's quality. Carrick has no such excuse to defend him when he was poor against the likes of Lille, Copenhagen and Milan.

The fact of the matter remains though that it is very unlikely that either Carrick or Hargreaves will ever produce a performance of the sheer class Roy Keane did that famous night in Turin.

Agreed. It was one of the greatest midfield perfomances in any game ever.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

can we quote you on that

Yes. Carrick has ever played well as one. But not consistently enough, against good sides.

 

[Plechazunga]

Some greens for Plech...

You know the way to my heart Sults... I live for those little green bastards

What tune is Plech's song to? I'm sure I know which one he's using but I can't remember the name...

I think it's from Joseph...

"He wears a coat (he wears a coat)
Of many colours (woah-oh)"

Spurs immortalised it with their Ginola songs:

He wears a shirt (he wears a shirt)
With a cockerel on it (woah-oh)
He's supersonic (woah-oh)
He's our French Jew...
Goes down the wing (goes down the wing)
Crosses it over (woah-oh)
David Ginola (woah-oh)
He sells shampoo."

 

[Feed Me]

Well what about his sick not status this season? It's bloody one thing after another.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Your boring now.

Yes. Because you realise I've exposed your folly. It's never fun when that happens

 

[Feed Me]

Yes. Because you realise I've exposed your folly. It's never fun when that happens

 

[choiboyx012]

He wears his hair (he wears a shirt)
In the German fashion (Woah-oh)
He plays with passion (Woah-oh)
If not aplomb...
He runs about (He runs about)
Like he's lost his car keys (Woah-oh)
He's Owen Hargreaves (Woah-oh)
He cost a bomb

He wears a shirt (he wears a shirt)
With a number four on (Woah-oh)
Looks like a moron (Woah-oh)
Rarely scores goals...
He grows his hair (He grows his hair)
Like a wilted cabbage (Woah-oh)
He's slightly average (Woah-oh)
Unlike Paul Scholes

He plays the role (He plays the role)
Of a water-fetcher (Woah-oh)
Like Darren Fletcher (Woah-oh)
But not so slow...
Paid eighteen mil (Paid eighteen mil)
To a club from Naziland (Woah-oh)
You could buy Swaziland (Woah-oh)
With that much dough

He cost a mil (He cost a mil)
More than Thierry (Woah-oh)
That's fecking scary (Woah-oh)
Quite a risky bet...
He gets stuck in (He gets stuck in)
With a certain gusto (Woah-oh)
But so did Mustoe (Woah-oh)
And what about the debt?

the fact that you wrote a song about one of our players in a bad light is pathetic. you must really hate him huh.. oh well, not all fans have their heads on right

 

[acnumber9]

It isn't. I placed teh balme of that on tweakness of teh Carrick-Schoels partnership defensively. It only became about Carrick when it was claimed he is superior to Hargreaves in the holding role in midfield. If he was superior, Hargreaves would never have been bought.

Keane had didn't even have a poor game. He just made one mistake. Score an own goal. Which made us chase the game against a side that was fantastic on the counter. When our defence wasn't the tightest, espically vs a team of REAL's quality. Carrick has no such excuse to defend him when he was poor against the likes of Lille, Copenhagen and Milan.


Agreed. It was one of the greatest midfield perfomances in any game ever.

Can we not even talk about Roy Keane without turning it around to a dig at Michael Carrick? Roy Keane was not at his best in that game, much like the whole team. Personally I think he was just a little too fired up for the game. We were probably also guilty of being a little arrogant before the game.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Cant believe are picking on Hargreaves for conceding goals ala Arsenal game...

He cant stop everything and if he doesnt, you will immediately question him. He is not a machine, hes human and cant stop every goal. Just because hes a DM, doesnt mean we will not concede and if we do, you cant just blame him.

Educate them.

 

[Sam]

Yes. Because you realise I've exposed your folly. It's never fun when that happens

No, because your to stupid to see that you are wrong.

 

[Sam]

 

[Feed Me]

the fact that you wrote a song about one of our players in a bad light is pathetic. you must really hate him huh.. oh well, not all fans have their heads on right

chill out man. it's a joke.

 

[Feed Me]

A typical Chief post:

fecking useless, bollocks argument.

Translation:

i've no fecking clue what i'm on about. if i act the e-smartarse, hopefully no one will notice my ignorance.

 

[Plechazunga]

I'm loving this new look to our online relationship Moz

the fact that you wrote a song about one of our players in a bad light is pathetic. you must really hate him huh.. oh well, not all fans have their heads on right

Not really, I've written piss-taking ditties about lots of our players, it's only a laugh

I doubt they mind that much, they're multi-millionaire football heroes who go out with models

Owen Hargreaves
Give me your answer, schnell
Here's my car-keys
Now can I bone Janelle?
I don't think I'm being greedy -
She's not as fit as Tweedy
But she'd look hot
Upon my cock
With my thumb up her arse as well

 

[RapidRed]

fecking hell!

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

The first song is quality Plech.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Just read, and deal with this.

feck what he said. The video doesn't agree with him. Hargreaves never jogged back

 

[VP]

This is how I imagine the Chief posting on this thread.

 

[VP]

He wears his hair (he wears a shirt)
In the German fashion (Woah-oh)
He plays with passion (Woah-oh)
If not aplomb...
He runs about (He runs about)
Like he's lost his car keys (Woah-oh)
He's Owen Hargreaves (Woah-oh)
He cost a bomb

He wears a shirt (he wears a shirt)
With a number four on (Woah-oh)
Looks like a moron (Woah-oh)
Rarely scores goals...
He grows his hair (He grows his hair)
Like a wilted cabbage (Woah-oh)
He's slightly average (Woah-oh)
Unlike Paul Scholes

He plays the role (He plays the role)
Of a water-fetcher (Woah-oh)
Like Darren Fletcher (Woah-oh)
But not so slow...
Paid eighteen mil (Paid eighteen mil)
To a club from Naziland (Woah-oh)
You could buy Swaziland (Woah-oh)
With that much dough

He cost a mil (He cost a mil)
More than Thierry (Woah-oh)
That's fecking scary (Woah-oh)
Quite a risky bet...
He gets stuck in (He gets stuck in)
With a certain gusto (Woah-oh)
But so did Mustoe (Woah-oh)
And what about the debt?

Can't believe I missed this.

 

[sammsky1]

He has suffered a couple of serious injuries only in the last 2 seasons at Bayern. Does a broken leg mean Hargreaves is a sicknote?

Hargreaves established himself as a regular at Bayern in the 01-02 season and made 29, 25, 25 and 27 league appearances in successive seasons until his injury. During the same seasons Ballack made 29, 26, 28 and 27 league appearances and was German player for the year in 3 of those seasons. The Bundesliga doesnt have 20 teams and at Bayern, even Ballack is rotated for rest/suspension or because they have already won the title. Maybe Ballack has a poor injury record too ?

Are we now making up stories about Hargreaves being injury prone to slate our own player ?

Rooney has probably missed more games in his first 4 seasons for us due to being injured than Hargreaves did for Bayern before he broke his leg. Is Rooney a sicknote ?

Great post backed up with good analysis. If the stats are true, you make a great point.

I think Hargreaves is a top top player. But that's not the issue and is being confused with how we justify his inclusion in the squad. So many things have happened in our midfield since that crazy situation a few years back when Rio played CM for a game or two and we had the giggs - Oshea partnership for 1/3 of the season.

I'm amazed at how Carrick has rapidly developed into such a genuine playmaker. Im gobsmacked at the emergence of Anderson who I'd never even heard of 9 months ago. I'm delighted that Fletcher had a great 2007 and this season has emerged as a genuine box to box player. I dont think anybody anticipated all of that to happen this season. And of course, Paul Scholes continues to delight in the autumn of his career and has at least 18 more months. And like 2004/5, if it goes belly up, we have Giggs, O'Shea & Ji-Sung who could fill in.

Its all just happened ahead of schedule and is better than we thought. Against that, poor old Hargreaves has a real job on to define a role for himself. It wasn't meant to turn out this way, he should have formed a interchanging 3-some with Carrick & Scholes whilst all 3 helped develop Anderson and Fletcher.

And so, the poor sod, who I think is very good at what he does, finds himself in a situation where he's useful for 10 or 12 games a season. Which is bullshit for a player of his class. I can imagine him moving to Italy, Spain or even Arsenal unless some movement is created because you cant keep a player of his experience, at the peak of his career reserves for away ties vs AC Milan.

Will be interesting to see how it develops but someone will have to go.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I, along with the vast majority of United fans, must have missed this humiliation that you talk about.

Yes. It wasn't humilliating to lose to Copnehagen while struggling and to scrap a 1-0 win at Lille in a match we should have lost.

We were never overran in midfield against Copenhagen. We had most of the play and were toothless up front.

That is not true at all.

We monopolised the play against Celtic and were punished for not creating much. That and Saha squandering two guilt edged chances.

While the goal we conceded came directly from Carrick's error. The "excellent shield" for our defence

Yes. Failing to track a player. Sam has just shown that Hargreaves is capable of a balls up in this department as well.

Carrick failed to track Nyakamura, a midfielder, while Hargreaves was tracking a man who isn't even his, a fecking striker

Overran? Bollocks. I remember the game and it was dire, but quite even.

In that game we hang on for dear life. It ws enevr even. Giggs stike spared our blushes.

He was okay, nothing special. That's all I said. We paidn £18 million for an "okay, nothing special" player. And don't say that price shouldn't be bought into it. For that, we could have bought a tasty striker in.

That is why you are an internet gimp passing igronant judgement on a player, while SAF is in the managers office at OT making the decsion that matter, for the club. Go figure

I'm knee deep in your shite. The pro-Carrick camp wins the argument..

My arse. In your fecking dreams you won.

Oh, and just for good measure.

Your posts reach new depths of stupidity

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from the "feck off" comments to me. You do not add anything to the debate...

While you calling me wanker adds a alot to the debate. You tosser. Up yours and er feck off

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

No, because your to stupid to see that you are wrong.

lame reply

 

[acnumber9]

Yes. It wasn't humilliating to lose to Copnehagen while struggling and to scrap a 1-0 win at Lille in a match we should have lost.

That si nto true at all.

While the goal we concede came directly from Carrick error. The "execellent shield" or our defece

Yes. Failing to track a player. Sam has just shown that Hargreaves is capable of a balls up in this department as well.

Carrick failed to track Nyakamura, a midfielder, while Hargreaves was tracking a man who isn't even his, a fecking striker

In that game we hang on for dear life. It ws enevr even. Giggs stike spared our blushes.

That is why you are an internet gimp passing igronant judgement on a player, while SAF is in the managers office at OT making the decsion that matter, for the club. Go figure


In your dreams moron


Your posts reach new depths of stupidity

While you calling me wanker adds a alot to the debate. You tosser. Up yours and er feck off

Perhaps Hargreaves should've tracked Fabregas, a midfielder, then in the game against Arsenal.

The Celtic free kick was given for a foul on Jarosik by the way. Oh and it was a dive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtSj30yPlrk

Not really sure how Carrick was supposed to stop that.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

He has suffered a couple of serious injuries only in the last 2 seasons at Bayern. Does a broken leg mean Hargreaves is a sicknote?

Hargreaves established himself as a regular at Bayern in the 01-02 season and made 29, 25, 25 and 27 league appearances in successive seasons until his injury. During the same seasons Ballack made 29, 26, 28 and 27 league appearances and was German player for the year in 3 of those seasons. The Bundesliga doesnt have 20 teams and at Bayern, even Ballack is rotated for rest/suspension or because they have already won the title. Maybe Ballack has a poor injury record too ?

Are we now making up stories about Hargreaves being injury prone to slate our own player ?

Rooney has probably missed more games in his first 4 seasons for us due to being injured than Hargreaves did for Bayern before he broke his leg. Is Rooney a sicknote ?

Superb post

 

[choiboyx012]

I'm loving this new look to our online relationship Moz



Not really, I've written piss-taking ditties about lots of our players, it's only a laugh

I doubt they mind that much, they're multi-millionaire football heroes who go out with models

Owen Hargreaves
Give me your answer, schnell
Here's my car-keys
Now can I bone Janelle?
I don't think I'm being greedy -
She's not as fit as Tweedy
But she'd look hot
Upon my cock
With my thumb up her arse as well

i haven't seen your songs so you'll have to excuse me.

 

[Sam]

lame reply

My heart bleeds. Oh and,

By the way...

 

[Feed Me]

Yes. It wasn't humilliating to lose to Copnehagen while struggling and to scrap a 1-0 win at Lille in a match we should have lost.

That is not true at all.

While the goal we conceded came directly from Carrick's error. The "excellent shield" for our defence

Yes. Failing to track a player. Sam has just shown that Hargreaves is capable of a balls up in this department as well.

Carrick failed to track Nyakamura, a midfielder, while Hargreaves was tracking a man who isn't even his, a fecking striker

In that game we hang on for dear life. It ws enevr even. Giggs stike spared our blushes.

That is why you are an internet gimp passing igronant judgement on a player, while SAF is in the managers office at OT making the decsion that matter, for the club. Go figure


My arse. In your fecking dreams you won.

Your posts reach new depths of stupidity

While you calling me wanker adds a alot to the debate. You tosser. Up yours and er feck off

 

[Feed Me]

Chief you complete fecking sad-act.