Hargreaves vs. Carrick, Feadingseagulls vs. Noodle, Chief (Bayern Fan!) vs. Logic

[Feed Me]

Yep, I somehow managed to change the picture, just so it suits my argument. Hargreaves is actually next to Adebayor, but I mystically made it look like he wasn't, and actually far behind him, trying to catch up.

Anyway here is your picture....

As you can see, Hargreaves is still behind Adebayor, not in between him and the crosser, like he should be.

VDS shouldn't have come out, but if he hadn't, Adebayor would still have controlled the ball, and then.....well who knows, he could have hit it into the top corner, he may have skied it into row Z, that's just something that we'll never know...

Shut it Sam. You have clearly photoshopped the image. There is no way Hargreaves would be the wrong side.

LIAR!

 

[FlawlessThaw]

Why should the thread be closed? Just don't open it yourself, surely?

It's generally the only active thread on the forum at the moment. Just got back from work and I am too lazy to do anything proactive.

 

[Sam]

Shut it Sam. You have clearly photoshopped the image. There is no way Hargreaves would be the wrong side.

LIAR!

What can I say.....you've caught me red handed!

 

[Instant Karma]

Hargreaves is no Keano. Keano is irreplaceable. Keano is god

Keano and the treble winning team running around like headless chickens leaving half the pitch free -

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhJc0M-lIis

Redondo dominated the game and arguably the best midfield under Fergie was made to look pub class.

If Hargreaves or Carrick had been a part of a team conceding such a goal with not a single player on the right side of the pitch, there would have been a dozen threads calling for their heads. They are not as good as Keane but somehow we still underperfomed year after year at the highest level.

 

[thebelfastboy]

I'm knee deep in your shite. The pro-Carrick camp wins the argument.

Oh, and just for good measure.

I would appreciate it if you would refrain from the "feck off" comments to me. You do not add anything to the debate...









....fecking wanker.

here here!!

 

[Feed Me]

So we've plunged to a new depth. Please tell me that IK hasn't just derided Roy Keane's achievements at United. Please tell me he hasn't done that...

 

[acnumber9]

You are trying to use Zidane as an example and it isn't working

Oh it is. Using Zidane as an example proves you can't compare players based on playing for a bigger club at a younger age and winning more medals.

Carrick has done nothing of note any where prior to coming to United. That fact remains. So your basis for calling him superior to Hargreaves is none existence. Judging them on their careers so far. It's that simple.

Furthermore, you can't use Zidane as an example. When he managed to do wonderful things at a smaller club like Bordeaux. Which Carrick didn't do. Hargreaves has proven himself at big stages and at the top level of football. Time and again. Carrick hasn't. It's that simple. There is no excuse you can use to down play what Hargreaves achieved at Bayern. It wasn't plain luck. It was talent. Carrick has never achieved as much because he isn't as good as you think. It's that simple

Like winning the UEFA cup? Any links to You Tube on that one for us? Keep ducking.

Hargreaves may or may not have proven himself at Bayern Munich. He hasn't done it at Old Trafford yet. Carrick has.

 

[Sultan]

Keano and the treble winning team running around like headless chickens leaving half the pitch free -

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhJc0M-lIis

Redondo dominated the game and arguably the best midfield under Fergie was made to look pub class.

If Hargreaves or Carrick had been a part of a team conceding such a goal with not a single player on the right side of the pitch, there would have been a dozen threads calling for their heads. They are not as good as Keane but somehow we still underperfomed year after year at the highest level.

 

[VP]

Keano and the treble winning team running around like headless chickens leaving half the pitch free -

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KhJc0M-lIis

Redondo dominated the game and arguably the best midfield under Fergie was made to look pub class.

If Hargreaves or Carrick had been a part of a team conceding such a goal with not a single player on the right side of the pitch, there would have been a dozen threads calling for their heads. They are not as good as Keane but somehow we still underperfomed year after year at the highest level.

Oh dear...

You have to be a WUM.

 

[Instant Karma]

So we've plunged to a new depth. Please tell me that IK hasn't just derided Roy Keane's achievements at United. Please tell me he hasn't done that...

No one is deriding his acheivements or ability as a player. Just that Hargreaves would have been labelled shite and worthless if we had conceded a similar goal with him playing. Top teams can also play well against us, have moments of class and score goals without anyone from our side being shite. Alternatively, however good a player you are - Keane or Maradona, you can still have a few bad games.

 

[acnumber9]

Fine i made a mistake about Zidane winng that trophy. But he did win the Inter Toto cup with them. But I haven't ducked squat. What has Carrick done for West Ham and Spurs? What finals has he reached? What did he achieved as a player for them? Zidane's achievements for Bordeaux were clear. Answer the question. Instead of consistently avoiding it.

 

[RapidRed]

Why should the thread be closed?

The very fact that you ask this question shows that you are blinkered buffoon who understands feck all about threads. You are just a moron who is a part of the thread close brigade who call for threads to be closed without knowing what they are talking about. You are just too dumb to be described by words.

just don't open it yourself,

by saying this you have shown that you are not only a moron but also a LIAR. You are the one who is not willing to accept facts and resorting to lying to prove your point. Anyone who has a clue will know that you are talking lies.

surely?

Milan away

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

This is what I'm talking about when I say you go overboard. It simply gets people angry and they stop taking you seriously. Devilish and GusHiddink are two great examples of people who sometimes make very good points, but because they go overboard the good points get lost in the rubbish. You're going down the same route.

Watching that video it's blindingly obvious that Hargreaves does well to get back and pressure Fabregas then pick Adebayor as his man, allowing Vidic to help Evra on the left. That's good work from Hargreaves. However, it's equally obviously that Hargreaves then gets ball-side of Adebayor and focused too much on the ball itself, and Adebayor uses this lapse of concentration to get a few steps ahead of Owen. A few steps which ultimately make the difference. If he'd stayed goal-side he'd have been able to stay with Adebayor, and VDS shouldn't have had to come out..

VDS never ahd to come out. By the time he brings himself out Hargreaves is reaching the ball, about to clear it out for a corner. That is pretty clear in the video. Van de sar panicked and displayed poor goal keeping there. Stop denying this obvious fact.

Yes Brown had a very big part to play. But so did Hargreaves.

That is wrong. Van de sar's pannicking caused the ball to spill to Sagna. While Brown watched Fabregas get to and use Sagna's pass. Hargreaves is blameless. Infact he shouldn't have had to be the one follwing Adebayor in to the box. Where the feck was Vidic then? Even later when Rio was covering the out of position VDS on the goal line and Fabregas was scott free to receive Sagan's cut back??

It's like how much you focus on Carrick as being the reason we failed against Milan last season. Yes, he was dissapointing. But there were so many other, probably bigger, reasons as well.

My focus wasn't on Carrick. My focus was on his weaknesses which were exposed badly vs Milan. Which people on here love to overlook when they are claiming he is superior to Hargreaves. Yet love to drum up every weakness of Hargreaves. Even those that clearly don't exist

This Carrick/Zidane thing - nobody is seriously comparing the two of them. But you and Karma were just putting so much emphasis on how much Hargreaves had won compared to Carrick. So people showed you that much better players than Hargreaves had also won nothing at that age, and much worse players had won just as much. Nothing more than that, and it's a very good point.

We put emphasis on ti ebcasue Hargreaves played key roles in all those triumphs. He wasn't just a bit part player. His reputationw as built on thsoe achivements. Manwhiel carrick, who people are claimg is a superior player achieved nothing of not till he came to United. Winning the league with us in a season in which: 1) Vidic and Evra finally settled, 2) Rio and Vidic gelled as a cenetr back paring,3) Ronadlo came of age, 4)Solskjaer and Scholes returned from long term injury and most importantly, 5) Giggs and Scholes retured to top form and lastly 6) Saha managed to show whata player he is for United and 6)Rooney was still a major force, despite a season of inconsistent form for him, clearly showing their claim that without him we couldn't have won the league is all the more flimsy. That his signing clearly wasn't the main reason we won the league.

Furthermore they keep trying to claim Carrick was exceptional in his first season at United that is why he is superior to Hargreaves. When Carrick merely moved from London to Manchester. In the same country. Yet Hargreaves came from a different culture, after 9 season in German, yet has still managed to perform like he has vs Arsenal and Liverpool. A thing excellent players like Evra and Vidic couldn't do in their first year in England.

Bottom line they can't be honest about Hargreaves or Carrick. Neither than they give Hargreaves any credit for what he has achieved in his career. Simply because it wont tally with their claims that Carrick is superior and Hargreaves is shit

 

[acnumber9]

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face.

What like saying Hargeaves was influential in our group games, or Manchester United's famous wins at Valencia and Celtic, or Bordeaux's glorious European victory?

 

[Sultan]

No one is deriding his acheivements or ability as a player. Just that Hargreaves would have been labelled shite and worthless if we had conceded a similar goal with him playing. Top teams can also play well against us, have moments of class and score goals without anyone from our side being shite.

Yes, they are humans...

The difference being Keane was consistently exceptional, Hargreaves has so far been at best, very average.

 

[Gazza]

The very fact that you ask this question shows that you are blinkered buffoon who understands feck all about threads. You are just a moron who is a part of the thread close brigade who call for threads to be closed without knowing what they are talking about. You are just too dumb to be described by words.



by saying this you have shown that you are not only a moron but also a LIAR. You are the one who is not willing to accept facts and resorting to lying to prove your point. Anyone who has a clue will know that you are talking lies.



Milan away

You had me going for a second! Dead on.

 

[Feed Me]

I don't mind admitting that I was wrong. I was initially quite pleased with Hargreaves' signing and early form. But I had barely seen the bloke play. I'm sure he's a nice fella who does fulfil a role in SOME OTHER team. But having seen him at close quarters, he is not impressive.

 

[acnumber9]

He touched it more than thrice. Besides, Our subs won us that game. Rooney's role was obviously more prominent. Sicne, he scored one and set up one. But to deny the impact of our subs is foolhardy. When our game clearly imporved when both came on pitch. Carrick for example was nothing creatively until Hargreaves stepped on pitch alongside him. Even though he was playing well as our anchor man

He was nothing creatively because he had a extremely below par Saha and quiet Ronaldo to aim at all day. Rooney and Rooney alone changed that game.

 

[VP]

Fine i made a mistake about Zidane winng that trophy. But he did win the Inter Toto cup with them. But I haven't ducked squat. What has Carrick done for West Ham and Spurs? What finals has he reached? What did he achieved as a player for them? Zidane's achievements for Bordeaux were clear. Answer the question. Instead of consistently avoiding it.

This thread's getting funnier by every post.

 

[Scholesy]

Hargreaves is world class

 

[Feed Me]

Talk about winning Intertoto Cup proves the Chief has lost the plot.

 

[Instant Karma]

Hargreaves has so far been at best, very average.

About 12 starts spread over 7 months when a player is returning from a year's injury lay off to a new side is the best way to judge him of course.
Get some perspective.

I bet you said Vidic and Evra were shite after 5 games in the season before last.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I don't mind admitting that I was wrong. I was initially quite pleased with Hargreaves' signing and early form. But I had barely seen the bloke play. I'm sure he's a nice fella who does fulfil a role in SOME OTHER team. But having seen him at close quarters, he is not impressive.

I think I'm with you on this one. I initially thought we needed someone like Hargreaves but the poor lad's been in and out of the team so much that this season is a write-off. I still don't discount on him just yet. But only an idiot would say at this present time that Hargreaves is better than Carrick.

However you can count on Owen Hargreaves still being a Manchester United player for the next year or so. Even Veron got three years.

 

[Wes]

he'll play with Carrick, of that i've no doubt.

It'll be 433, though which is actually a blessing. Anderson pushed up, Carrick sitting and Hargreaves running around a bit.

 

[Feed Me]

About 12 starts spread over 7 months when a player is returning from a year's injury lay off to a new side is the best way to judge him of course.
Get some perspective.

I bet you said Vidic and Evra were shite after 5 games in the season before last.

I'd wager a bet that Sultan is a more educated United fan than you.

 

[Feed Me]

I think I'm with you on this one. I initially thought we needed someone like Hargreaves but the poor lad's been in and out of the team so much that this season is a write-off. I still don't discount on him just yet. But only an idiot would say at this present time that Hargreaves is better than Carrick.

However you can count on Owen Hargreaves still being a Manchester United player for the next year or so. Even Veron got three years.

I reckon he'll be at United for years to be honest. No re-sale value whatsoever.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

he'll play with Carrick, of that i've no doubt.

It'll be 433, though which is actually a blessing. Anderson pushed up, Carrick sitting and Hargreaves running around a bit.

In all honesty I quite like that formation. And I only think Hargreaves has played anywhere near decent has been when he has played alongside Anderson.

 

[Instant Karma]

I'd wager a bet that Sultan is a more educated United fan than you.

Whatever....this thread isn't about me or Sultan. I hardly ever comment about another poster.

 

[Wes]

In all honesty I quite like that formation. And I only think Hargreaves has played anywhere near decent has been when he has played alongside Anderson.

its not bad. He's lack of footballing skill will be made up for. As i've said numerous times, he gets stuck in, which is what we need at times.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I reckon he'll be at United for years to be honest. No re-sale value whatsoever.

That's not strictly true. We could get up to £8 million for him and if he was a complete joke of a player this season which in all fairness he hasn't been, we would probably take it. He'll be at the club for three years minimum. Ferguson is a stubborn man and like it or not Hargreaves - Carrick - Anderson is the future.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

No one is deriding his acheivements or ability as a player. Just that Hargreaves would have been labelled shite and worthless if we had conceded a similar goal with him playing. Top teams can also play well against us, have moments of class and score goals without anyone from our side being shite. Alternatively, however good a player you are - Keane or Maradona, you can still have a few bad games.

Spot on

 

[Ekeke]

Are Mr. Hargreaves' mum and dad still trying to defend him?

 

[Feed Me]

That's not strictly true. We could get up to £8 million for him and if he was a complete joke of a player this season which in all fairness he hasn't been, we would probably take it. He'll be at the club for three years minimum. Ferguson is a stubborn man and like it or not Hargreaves - Carrick - Anderson is the future.

An £8 million sale would be confirmation that that is his value and that we vastly overpaid. He ain't going anywhere. Unfortunately.

 

[acnumber9]

Rather you are the liar. You coveninenlty chose that picture simple becasue it suited you argument. Which is based on a pure lies. Be a fecking man and post the picture in which Van der sar collides with Hargreaves. And show the whole world how in that instant, Adebayor is goal side of Hagreaves, as you claim. Instead of acting like a petty teenager

What did David May really do in all those trophy wins? Name any games and periods in which he was crucial? What global of Euroepan reputation did he posses? When was Unitd ever indebted to him for succeeding in a competition? When you do that you can use your fecking David May argument to stick up for Carrick. Rio in comparsion to him did wonders for Leeds. Even bigger for United. That is why fecking may can't compare, despite his more trophies. Your Carrick meanwhile did feck all for Spurs and West Ham and even got to play at championship level, while Hargreves was actually making a name for himself in Europe and being one of Bayern's key players. Plsu getting picked for England. But don't let that fact get in the way of your comparing Hagreaves achievements at Bayern to fecking David May's at OT . You cretin

When he scored the winning goal the day we won the league.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

An £8 million sale would be confirmation that that is his value and that we vastly overpaid. He ain't going anywhere. Unfortunately.

In any case the only person you could blame for this is Ferguson who has made a catastrophic error.

 

[acnumber9]

Yep. You never ever lie about results. Like our record in Europe since 1999, for example.

Where did I lie about a result? We hadn't won a game in two seasons way from home in Europe prior to last year. Prior to that the only time we had won an away game in the knockout stages since 99 was that very impressive win against Deportivo. If that's good enough for you then that's alright. I was wrong when I said it had been utter shite since 99, it was average at best with some very good results and sme frankly embarrasing ones.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Hargreaves eventually catches him, because Adebayor slows down, to stay onside and then goes to control the ball, which gives Hargreaves the time needed to catch up.

But then again, had Hargreaves being doing his job properly in the first place, he wouldn't have had to catch Adebayor as he would have been with him and between the crosser and Adebayor, and been able to clear it before it got through to Adebayor! But as we all know, he doesn't read the game properly, and spends half his time trying to atone for the fact that he is always a yard or two behind what's happening in the the game.

Bollocks post. Adebayor never slowed down at all. Hargreaves caught him easily. When the cross comes in, if Vds doesn't come out, Hargreaves was getting to it first. To watch that video and claim that bollocks about Hargreaves's positioning is beyond belief and fecking stupid. Espcial from some one who doesn't want us to hold against Carrick the time Kaka, an attacking mdfielder left him for dead vs Milan. Yet is all to willing to blame Hargreaves for chasing and catching a striker, who should be marked by a center back, namely one Vidic who is conspicuous by his absence in that replay video, during the events that lead to the goal ..

Yet some one will tell me it's abuse to call such a person a major feck wit

 

[Plechazunga]

He wears his hair (he wears a shirt)
In the German fashion (Woah-oh)
He plays with passion (Woah-oh)
If not aplomb...
He runs about (He runs about)
Like he's lost his car keys (Woah-oh)
He's Owen Hargreaves (Woah-oh)
He cost a bomb

He wears a shirt (he wears a shirt)
With a number four on (Woah-oh)
Looks like a moron (Woah-oh)
Rarely scores goals...
He grows his hair (He grows his hair)
Like a wilted cabbage (Woah-oh)
He's slightly average (Woah-oh)
Unlike Paul Scholes

He plays the role (He plays the role)
Of a water-fetcher (Woah-oh)
Like Darren Fletcher (Woah-oh)
But not so slow...
Paid eighteen mil (Paid eighteen mil)
To a club from Naziland (Woah-oh)
You could buy Swaziland (Woah-oh)
With that much dough

He cost a mil (He cost a mil)
More than Thierry (Woah-oh)
That's fecking scary (Woah-oh)
Quite a risky bet...
He gets stuck in (He gets stuck in)
With a certain gusto (Woah-oh)
But so did Mustoe (Woah-oh)
And what about the debt?

 

[Utd heap]

He wears his hair (he wears a shirt)
In the German fashion (Woah-oh)
He plays with passion (Woah-oh)
If not aplomb...
He runs about (He runs about)
Like he's lost his car keys (Woah-oh)
He's Owen Hargreaves (Woah-oh)
He cost a bomb

He wears a shirt (he wears a shirt)
With a number four on (Woah-oh)
Looks like a moron (Woah-oh)
Rarely scores goals...
He grows his hair (He grows his hair)
Like a wilted cabbage (Woah-oh)
He's slightly average (Woah-oh)
Unlike Paul Scholes

He plays the role (He plays the role)
Of a water-fetcher (Woah-oh)
Like Darren Fletcher (Woah-oh)
But not so slow...
Paid eighteen mil (Paid eighteen mil)
To a club from Naziland (Woah-oh)
You could buy Swaziland (Woah-oh)
With that much dough

He cost a mil (He cost a mil)
More than Thierry (Woah-oh)
That's fecking scary (Woah-oh)
Quite a risky bet...
He gets stuck in (He gets stuck in)
With a certain gusto (Woah-oh)
But so did Mustoe (Woah-oh)
And what about the debt?

, too much time on your hands...but brilliant.

 

[Feed Me]

He wears his hair (he wears a shirt)
In the German fashion (Woah-oh)
He plays with passion (Woah-oh)
If not aplomb...
He runs about (He runs about)
Like he's lost his car keys (Woah-oh)
He's Owen Hargreaves (Woah-oh)
He cost a bomb

He wears a shirt (he wears a shirt)
With a number four on (Woah-oh)
Looks like a moron (Woah-oh)
Rarely scores goals...
He grows his hair (He grows his hair)
Like a wilted cabbage (Woah-oh)
He's slightly average (Woah-oh)
Unlike Paul Scholes

He plays the role (He plays the role)
Of a water-fetcher (Woah-oh)
Like Darren Fletcher (Woah-oh)
But not so slow...
Paid eighteen mil (Paid eighteen mil)
To a club from Naziland (Woah-oh)
You could buy Swaziland (Woah-oh)
With that much dough

He cost a mil (He cost a mil)
More than Thierry (Woah-oh)
That's fecking scary (Woah-oh)
Quite a risky bet...
He gets stuck in (He gets stuck in)
With a certain gusto (Woah-oh)
But so did Mustoe (Woah-oh)
And what about the debt?

Genius and spot on!