Well that's just dumb to say. Yeah, he didn't win a trophy. But flick coached the team to play well. You going to sack a coach because their forwards missed a few sitters? Or do you put it down to what it is - tournament luck - and move on? It's not like they played like shit. It's not like Germany played like Belgium. Germany dominated their games, but didn't get out of the group largely because Spain didn't care in the final game and a 10 minute spell vs Japan. It happens in cup football. You don't sack a top manager because of it, that is laughably crazy. To say he's not suited to this job is mad, it's football, he did his bit. Players missed their chances, all it was.
Hansi Flick (sack) watch
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
I mean that's the point isn't it? Germany vs Japan had a bigger xG difference than England vs Iran, yet England won 6-2 and Germany lost 2-1.
Football variance combined with 0 tolerance for feck ups in cup football leads to this. Shit happens. It's still important to separate what was the reason for the failure, whether the coach was at fault and you need to replace the coach to expect improvement, or was it good performances but essentially - bad luck - and you stick with them because it should turn around if you continue playing the same way.
Looking at xG is a useful tool to determine when patience is required before making a hasty decision, or to see through what is ultimately a lucky run (Ole's first half season that got him the job for example).
It's not only about an absolute lack of efficiency, it's also about consistently receiving goals and never being able to more or less dominate a game, no matter the opponent there will always be those 20 odd minutes where they completely lose the plot. Was the same at Bayern - except that Lewandowsky helped a lot with the efficiency part. It's also about not being able to define a proper player formation and go with it. Or about not playing a lot of players out of position. And it's about the principle of performance: why leave Hummels, one of the best in form German CBs at home? Why bring in Klostermann who played a whooping 90mins this season so far and hasn't played since mid August. Why use the bulk of Bayern players but play them out of position? And while Bayern clearly suffered when they played without a dedicated #9 and absolutely improved with one (EMCM) why not play Füllkrug to fill in that spot but instead keep on relying on Müller as a #9 who never worked out there?
Flick's just clueless and only benefits from the circumstance that Löw and his abysmal last years set the bar so incredibly low that he gets away with it.
German posts seem to consider him an all time great after the success at Bayern
Surely he won’t get sacked? Germany are shite at the national level and the league is well below most standards, even German football itself and where that used to be 10 years ago.
Who does? He had one all time great season, but that's all and he isn't a young manager.
Reports so far aren't talking about Flick getting sacked, but more a out Flick possibly walking away if the new board should consist of people he doesn't like to work with.
Does it really matter at international level? Realistically Germany are 10-15 years away from possibly winning something be which point Flick won’t be the coach anyway.
Err...no? He's a great manager today and I think he should stay on.
German manager GOAT is Jupp Heynckes
Playing well means winning games in tournament football. Falling back on xG is dumb in any game but especially so in a tournament.
Missing a sitter or conceding through a mistake is bad luck, when it's happening every game it's bad coaching. Germany never look comfortable in a game. There is always a mad 5 minutes waiting to happen.
10-15 years? They’re hosting the next Euro’s. They’ll go far in that tournament.
Bierhoff's replacement matters, because he is the one organizing everything around the national team and therefore is the most important one to speak to about everything for the manager that isn't related to the players themselves, so where to have the training camp, how to organize the stay and travel during tournaments etc.
Surprised you didn't mention Klopp, Hitzfeld, Lattek, and Weisweiler.Err...no? He's a great manager today and I think he should stay on.
German manager GOAT is Jupp Heynckes
Klopp doesn't have their trophy cabinet, Hitzfeld is Swiss.
Is he? He's born in Lörrach
Flick is such a Chelsea appointment after Potter is sacked.
Or Barca.
International tournament football relies on luck far more. You can play well and not have luck. It's not falling back on xG to excuse a bad result, it's just using xG to point you towards "is this something they should worry about or no". It helps you with forward planning. Are you going to panic and sack a top manager who you can be successful with, or do you see past a bad run of results and will you stick with it because the underlying stats show that "the league table was lying".
3 games is a tiny sample size. Any international tournament is such a small sample that so much variance can play a part in results. It's what makes it exciting. But also you're able to look past results and see what the difference was between Germany and Belgium for example. Belgium was legitimately the worst team in that group and didn't deserve anything. Germany was arguably the best side, was arguably better than Spain but only drew in a tight game, but had a mad period vs Japan that cost them the tournament. That's just a shit happens moment.
its football, there is pretty much a mad 5 minutes that happens in every game against any opponent. You gotta ride it out, but sometimes it doesn't go your way. Of course they made mistakes defensively too, some mentality issues which is where you can point criticism, but past that? Nah. Think it'd be dumb for them to get rid of him and it'd be panicking after essentially bad luck (especially bad luck that Spain essentially weren't bothered about losing to Japan as it knocked out a competitor).
The German Di Matteo.
Hardly
He's better off as an assistant than as the manager and has a UCL to his CV while looking nowhere near the part outside of that.
His Bayern team was outstanding. RdM fluked a cup win.
I was half joking, thought the emoji would make it obvious
Am not old enough to see Lattek or Helmut Schon's teams so can't say. Hitzfeld is great, as is Klopp. Heynckes is underrated in my opinion though, reached the UCL final 3 years out of 4 he's managed a team participating in it, won it twice, the one time he didn't make the final was after an epic close battle with Madrid.
xG trophy goes to Germany this year then. We might even cancel the rest of the World Cup now, since xG is more important than winning the games.
xG trophy goes to Germany this year then. We might even cancel the rest of the World Cup now, since xG is more important than winning the games.
I'd rather look at performances instead of results over 3 games
You can, you have all the time in the world to analyze it now that you are out. I am sure England, Croatia, Japan, etc. wouldn't change their results for your performances.
Who said anything about that? Jesus
It's incredible that 90% of football fans can't grasp such a single concept...
Talk about asinine comments. Or a world class WUM.
Who said anything about that? Jesus
It's incredible that 90% of football fans can't grasp such a single concept...
Yeah, not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Who said anything about that? Jesus
It's incredible that 90% of football fans can't grasp such a single concept...
And what exactly did you mean by that, please enlighten me?
Also, which concept?
I meant that when deciding Flick's future, I'd rather look at how they performed (good tactically, high xG) instead of the results themselves. The players messed up vs Japan. So in reality it's actually 1 game that decided their fate.
Another example is Arsenal vs Spurs last season. Based on performances, it was obvious that Arsenal had a much higher ceiling and that long-term it doesn't really matter which of the 2 makes the CL. In the end, Spurs got 4th place due to Arsenal losing 2 of their last 3. 7 months later, it's evident that Arsenal are way ahead of Conte's team.
So my point was that over a sample size of 3 games, Germany didn't get the result they wanted but the performances showed a lot of promise. In addition, Flick has already proved himself to be a tactically astute manager at Bayern.
Sometimes the better team loses. Us United fans should know that after so many CL heartbreaks over the years. If Japan didn't undeservedly beat Germany 2 weeks ago, they would likely be facing Brazil in the QFs soon and not many would be doubting Flick.
Tuchel would be a good choice but I'd rather see Klopp get it
Good results are quite often followed by good performances. Actually, it's happening in most of the games, teams that perform better generally win their games.
You problem is that you only see parts of those performances that you like and think that was great performance all around, and ignore the fact that only 5 teams conceeded more goals than Germany at this World Cup. Which frankly, is horrible stat that shows that your manager didn't really have a clue how to set up his team defensively against teams he was supposed to attack, considering you conceeded 2 goals against Japan who are clueless up front, and you even conceeded 2 against Costa Rica(who scored 3 goals in total). You say good tactically but then you lose against Japan after leading the game, how exactly is that good tactically?
Being stubborn and arrogant in thier views, hence very unlikeable is the feature many german fans here have in common here for some reason, some of you think only your way of playing/watching football is the correct one, and anyone who doesn't agree with that is clueless or doesn't understand football. Reminds me of one Barca fan who said that Barcelona never had a poor game in their modern history, because they always play the correct way(tiki taka way). Fair to say is that no one liked him either.
I'm not German and never supported them, I'm 100% neutral in this.
It seems like you still don't understand my point. A lot of what you've just said is true but I'm saying that it matters much less because of the small sample size. That's what you don't seem to consider at all when making your point.
Who said anything about that? Jesus
It's incredible that 90% of football fans can't grasp such a single concept...
It's just black and white with lot of folk.
Think they be mad to sack flick. The attacking was their to see this world cup, should have killed of that Japan game. Lacking a striker defo,
But home tournament coming up in 2 years could build nicely into that and I'd expect them to go far and be one of the teams to beat on home turf.
I think so too. Expecting them to be one of the biggest favorites for the euros.
Much better suited to club football.