If Bayern were as ruthless as they supposedly will be with Flick neither Kovac nor Ancelotti would have survived (after) their first season. Especially with Kovac everyone knew that disaster was merely postponed. And I don't even mean that as criticism, in the end even the most principled management has to abide by the results to some degree.
Hansi Flick (sack) watch
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
If Bayern were as ruthless as they supposedly will be with Flick neither Kovac nor Ancelotti would have survived (after) their first season. Especially with Kovac everyone knew that disaster was merely postponed. And I don't even mean that as criticism, in the end even the most principled management has to abide by the results to some degree.
I don’t know if this is a joke, but it’s inevitable he’ll be moved on for a bigger name at some point.
Won't be for a bigger name, just for someone who they think might be more effective.
At Kovac especially that sentence backfires now:
"Man muss die Spielertypen haben", sagte er trotzig. "Man kann nicht versuchen, 200 km/h auf der Autobahn zu fahren, wenn sie nur 100 schaffen."
You have to have the right types of players for speedier football. You cannot try to go with 200 km/h down the highway if they only can drive 100 km/h...
"Man muss die Spielertypen haben", sagte er trotzig. "Man kann nicht versuchen, 200 km/h auf der Autobahn zu fahren, wenn sie nur 100 schaffen."
You have to have the right types of players for speedier football. You cannot try to go with 200 km/h down the highway if they only can drive 100 km/h...
Yeah no argument here. I'm also convinced Flick will at least get the full 20/21 season, provided we do not play a terrible league campaign, which pretty much means retain the title or at least be a close second due to freak circumstances beyond his control. But still next season will surely give some indication whether he's here to stay or not.
His name is already pretty big in Germany, that certainly won't be a reason. He'll stay for as long as he's successful.
You call it ruthless and pragmatic to sack a winning manager, I call it brainless 9 out of 10 times. As a principle to adhere to, it’s as intelligent as the idea ‘if it works - get rid of it’
It would need a historic collapse akin to the one of Louis van Gaal in 2010/11 for him to get sacked next season. Considering he's a much better player's coach and man manager than LvG I think that's highly unlikely.
It depends on how ambitious you are. Why settle if you think you can win even more and can do it playing even better football? And for clubs of Bayern's stature the goal is to win the CL playing box office football.
Let’s make a sack watch thread for every manager out there.
Maybe a Fergie would turn up somewhere and people will have a lot of fun bumping that thread 27 years from now.
Maybe a Fergie would turn up somewhere and people will have a lot of fun bumping that thread 27 years from now.
I don't know, you moved that Heynecks out when Pep came available despite him winning a treble I think?
I could easily see you going after someone like Klopp or even Nageslmann.
Apologies for my bad spelling of German names haha.
Richtig es ist grottenschlecht..
Heynckes retired
I mean, eventually he will be sacked, so why not make this topic?
Heynckes was supposed to be a caretaker, his contract was ending and it was ensure whether he was retiring or not. So Bayern who was very interested in Guardiola anticipated and brought him before Heynckes take a decision.
He was retired. Leaving after the treble season was not entirely his own choice to put it mildly, the contract with Pep had already been signed.
They kept Pep for 4 years despite his failure year after year in CL. Fairly sure they'll be patient with Flick considering how good they've been so far under his guidance.
Flick has just proven what everyone in Germany noticed: Kovac was horrendously bad for Bayern. Under Kovac they were even struggling against low-table Bundesliga sides and everyone was wondering if the squad has become that bad in such a short time. Immediatly after Kovac was sacked for Flick, Bayern is the same machine as they were before. It's not only Barca who got destroyed by Flicks Bayern, with the same squad at hand as Kovac.
I think most Bayern fans (at least all that I talk to regularly) knew from the moment he was announced that Kovac would fail, although nobody expected him to perform this badly. The ruthless, efficient thing would've been to sack him after his first half year because it was obvious that the team played like crap and got by on individual quality alone. The ruthless thing would've been to sack him after half a season, the efficient thing would've been to never hire him in the first place. How anyone thought he was the right man for the job is beyond me.
Pep spent 3yrs hardly leaving top spot in the league for even a week and made all CL semis. I think any coach who guarantees that will stay at Bayern
Ancelotti and Kovac won the league in their first season, it was when they started failing second season autumn that they got fired. Bayern already prepared for Kovacs sack when they drafted Flick to be his assistant. Most fans knew that move was just waiting for the next 2 poor games from Kovac and he is out
If you read the OP closely, it's not really about Flick or Kovac or any other name. It's about Bayern choosing the best trainer for their team regardless of sentimentality or feeling or nostalgia. I admire that pragmatism that stems from the principle that the club comes before any names. At English clubs in general, United in particular, there's almost a conditional worship of the manager which I don't really agree with. I understand where it comes from, I think it's a historical relic.
But of course that point is missed by half the Caff with their reading (mis)comprehension and just focusing on the title of the thread.
Anyways, good luck to Flick - I admire Bayern for the way they run the club and play football, and wish you well deserved success in the CL.
I thought my point was clear - you don't reward a coach for winning last year - that's what a pay package and bonuses are for. My point was/is, the moment that a coach starts fecking up (whether it's results, or tactics, or team chemistry is off, or players seem unhappy), Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and the board will start putting the succession plan in action to ensure the successful continuity of the club.
If you think about it, Fergie used to do that with a winning team all the time - star players who were past it or thought they were the shit were moved on, new ones were brought in to keep the environment fresh, hungry and complacency-free. There are countless examples to mention from Ince to Beckham to Ruud and it was no doubt a winning formula. Think of Bayern's "Fergie equivalent" as a carefully selected Board and you see how sacking a manager is no more brainless than moving a star player who's past it.
Didn't they mainly sack Kovac because Bayern were shite with him? I mean, even a limping horse still wins a one horse race, but they barely did.
They've been comfortable the best team in Europe this year.
They've been comfortable the best team in Europe this year.
So the title is wrong?
i think the reward point is completely moot - nobody decides manager or manager change based on the wish to reward a manager, and nobody thinks anybody does that.
Managers are hired or fired based on expectancy of success, and that‘s the expectancy of the Club hierarchy. They base their expectancy on what they see and some hopefully qualified ideas about what to look after. If they see a manager or interim manager do the right things in the right areas, that will stregthen their belief in his qualities. If they see that players and squad improves under him, so likewise. And if they see the team produce greatplay or great results under him, just the same.
if a struggling team turns around under a manager to win 30 of their next 33 games, winning the league and reaching the CL semis by butchering Barca 8-2 in a grandiose manner, 9 times out of 10 that’s indications of qualities in the manager you would want to see more of. If he looks like a deer in headlights on the training ground, that might for instance be a reason to think orherwise, but the OP made it sound like anyone with such results should be sacked after a few setbacks, which makes no sense.
Which they are closer to doing now than at any time since the 70’s. Of course results don’t make anyone immune to being moved on, but you’ll need pretty strong indicators that you can do better.
Maybe the whole thread is suboptimal if 80% on here unterstand it differently than the OP intended.
Yeah, I'm kinda getting at that. If it were one or two posters, ok, but in this case...
People need to read better.
They were sacked (Kovac and Ancelotti) because it wasn't working, despite them winning leagues.
They also retired Heynckes to get Pep in.
What an unbelievable comeback from Bayern this season under Hansi Flick.
A season that started poorly under Kovac, with Bayern off the pace and languishing in 4th, culminated in a 5:1 loss to Eintracht Frankfurt. Struggling domestically, barely beating Olympickos, a dressing room filled with tension, an unhappy Thomas Muller, Bayern was going nowhere under Kovac.
Enter Flick. Bayern slowly became a machine dominating both in Germany and Europe. On their way, they defeated Chelsea (on aggregate) 7:1, Barcelona 8:2, Lyon 3:0 and finally PSG 1:0.
Some stats worth mentioning:
No team before has ever won all CL games in one season
No team has scored more goals per game at 3.9
No team before has ever won a knockout game 8-2 against Barcelona
Credit to Hansi Flick who's done a remarkable turnaround job! This team is young and can be a force for years to come.
A season that started poorly under Kovac, with Bayern off the pace and languishing in 4th, culminated in a 5:1 loss to Eintracht Frankfurt. Struggling domestically, barely beating Olympickos, a dressing room filled with tension, an unhappy Thomas Muller, Bayern was going nowhere under Kovac.
Enter Flick. Bayern slowly became a machine dominating both in Germany and Europe. On their way, they defeated Chelsea (on aggregate) 7:1, Barcelona 8:2, Lyon 3:0 and finally PSG 1:0.
Some stats worth mentioning:
No team before has ever won all CL games in one season
No team has scored more goals per game at 3.9
No team before has ever won a knockout game 8-2 against Barcelona
Credit to Hansi Flick who's done a remarkable turnaround job! This team is young and can be a force for years to come.
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Bayern's two treble coaches...
Stolen from twitter...
In retrospect Nico Kovac was the only coach that knew this season how to stop this Bayern team...
Stolen from twitter...
In retrospect Nico Kovac was the only coach that knew this season how to stop this Bayern team...
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Makes one wonder how much "proven experience" is worth at a top club. Seems like it's much more important to be respected by your players and have a good relationship with them.
I don’t mean to be pedantic but the 7-2 over Tottenham that makes up the majority of that 10-3 was under Kovac
Increasingly less as players become more and more valuable.
Good coaches are still critical though, but football seems stacked full of them.
No. 1999 could have been one if there would not have been the overtime...
2001 Bayern just won the Bundesliga and the CL - in the Cup they went out in the second round against Magdeburg.
Flick has a tonne of experience. But at the national team level and not club level. The German internationals are familiar with him and it also gives him credibility and respect from the non-German players.
That's the understatement of the year. I still can't get my head around what has happened here. Never in my good 35 years as a fan I've been taken on such a glorious ride like in the past 10 months.
We've.beaten.them.all. In.style. Simply surreal
After that limp loss to the Scousers last season and the way they started this very recent campaign, everyone was saying Bayern needed major surgery. According to many people’s eyes, including mine, they had only 2 players who could really be argued as the best in the world in their positions, Kimmich and Lewandowski. Kovac then goes and loses 5-1 to a Frankfurt without Jovic, Rebic and Haller, getting himself deservedly fired. We all know the rest, and every Bayern player now each has a fair shout to being the best in the world in their positions.
Flick has really done magnificent job. What are the odds on them doing the Treble again next season and becoming the club with the outright most trebles ever?
Flick has really done magnificent job. What are the odds on them doing the Treble again next season and becoming the club with the outright most trebles ever?
Maybe just some unknown things to some... - a little trivia
Two players that played some years together at VfB Stuttgart.
Sane and Goretzka grew up just some kilometres from each other and both went into the same grade in school. They had different paths in their youth football years but later played together as young professionals at Schalke.
Thilo Kehrer (PSG) - a year younger than Gnabry and Kimmich - started at Stuttgart, too. Went to Schalke with 16 where he played in youth and as young professional with Sane...
Two players that played some years together at VfB Stuttgart.
Sane and Goretzka grew up just some kilometres from each other and both went into the same grade in school. They had different paths in their youth football years but later played together as young professionals at Schalke.
Thilo Kehrer (PSG) - a year younger than Gnabry and Kimmich - started at Stuttgart, too. Went to Schalke with 16 where he played in youth and as young professional with Sane...