Hansi Flick (sack) watch
- Thread starter Suedesi
- Start date
C’mon mate, to absolve the manager and the German team because they won the xG stats is something else!Yeah, completely irrelevant, right?
Pep’s won 5 champion leagues with Man City because of their xG!
He did okay but ultimately the Germany job post-Klose comes down to if you get the decision to play a false 9 vs a mid-table 9 right, and he got it wrong.
I do think they should see this World Cup the same way you would a shock R of 16 loss to the Japanese rather than a typical "we went out in the Group stage" like Belgium, who lost to Morocco and got outplayed by Canada but should have beaten Croatia.
Japan are a decent side who I think would have been favored to get out of the Argentina or England group in 2nd and 50/50 for 3 or 4 of the other groups. They battered the U.S badly pre-tournament and have good depth in midfield, players like Kyogo and Hatate weren't even picked and we know they're decent. And having one old CB (Yoshida) and one old FB (Nagatomo) has never really been a huge problem at the World Cup as long as you have pace and technical quality around them, as we're seeing again with CBs like Ream, Lovren and Pepe able to pair younger partners in Cameron-Vickers, Gvardiol and Dias and look alright.
The team can definitely perform better but to just look at the results ignoring that the team created more chances than the opponent in all three games is still nonsense.
I'm all for looking at the stuff you influence and try to improve those but I'm sure that the people in charge will recognize that this wasn't a performance as bad as the results suggest.
"We won the xG" just sounds kinda funny given the context.
Germany won in xG today yes, sure... they also won the game and scored 4 goals. So it's not really relevant. Against Spain, the difference in xG was small (something like 0.5) and the actual xG was not high (a little above 1). The game was a draw and Germany scored 1 goal, so again, the result matches the stats.
So really this xG business is just a way of saying "Germany did not deserve to lose the first game."
Germany won in xG today yes, sure... they also won the game and scored 4 goals. So it's not really relevant. Against Spain, the difference in xG was small (something like 0.5) and the actual xG was not high (a little above 1). The game was a draw and Germany scored 1 goal, so again, the result matches the stats.
So really this xG business is just a way of saying "Germany did not deserve to lose the first game."
Eliminated for not having a great striker/forward
Musiala can't score to save his life
Musiala can't score to save his life
2022 FIFA World Cup xG champions of the group stage
I still can’t believe Gotze somehow ended up playing twice at this World Cup… I’m all for a comeback story, but he’ll probably not play again until the 2030 World Cup.
Clueless.So isn’t the manager responsible for picking players that will actually finish the chances they should be scoring?
Starting Havertz with muller behind in first game didn’t work at all. Starting muller second game as striker didn’t work. The manager makes these calls.
Flick gave a chance to the players.
Are you asking him to invade the pitch and score the chances that Gnabry,Muller,Musiala, and Rudiger missed?
He did his job in the tactics, if the players miss their chances that's mostly on the players.
If they wouldn't have created any chance at all like Poland, then you can blame Flick
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One season wonder.
You love to see it.
You love to see it.
I don't think he's clueless, just completely deluded.
Well he didn’t. This is pretty desperate. If he did his job as a manager his team wouldn’t be going home in the group stages for the 2nd time in a row in a group that contained Costa Rica and Japan. You can dress it up how you like, they collectively failed including the manager.
I can’t believe this xG nonsense is even being brought into the equation.
Shouldn't be sacked yet, would give him till Euro 24 in Germany to try and prove himself.
Don't think people can blame him too much for the Spain and Costa Rica, we got a deserved draw and win in those two matches. It was the Japan game that killed us, and our complacency.
You can't blame him much for not starting Fullkrug in the first match because most managers would have gone with the same, giving the debut to a player in a world cup match would be risky. He definitely should have started the next two though, but we got the expected results from those.
Don't think people can blame him too much for the Spain and Costa Rica, we got a deserved draw and win in those two matches. It was the Japan game that killed us, and our complacency.
You can't blame him much for not starting Fullkrug in the first match because most managers would have gone with the same, giving the debut to a player in a world cup match would be risky. He definitely should have started the next two though, but we got the expected results from those.
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I only blame him for sticking with the Müller CF idiocy. It's been proven again and again for years that it's a shit setup not suited to his strengths up to the point where it's better not to play Müller at all.
Before the World Cup, there was one scenario that I was entertaining in the event that Germany would carry on that bad streak from recent years. It goes in this order:
1) Germany doesn't make it beyond the group stages... CHECK
2) Hansi Flick gets sacked... Probable
3) The DFB gives a phone call to a certain German in Liverpool... Possible.
4) That certain German leaves Liverpool and answers the call of the nation... Dream scenario.
On the balance of everything after Euro 2016, I think it's obvious that Germany is in need of a new identity that Flick will not provide because he's a symbol of a continuity that may not be viable. Moreover, I can't imagine how hard the anti-Bayern lobby inside Germany will push to get his head after that recent elimination.
1) Germany doesn't make it beyond the group stages... CHECK
2) Hansi Flick gets sacked... Probable
3) The DFB gives a phone call to a certain German in Liverpool... Possible.
4) That certain German leaves Liverpool and answers the call of the nation... Dream scenario.
On the balance of everything after Euro 2016, I think it's obvious that Germany is in need of a new identity that Flick will not provide because he's a symbol of a continuity that may not be viable. Moreover, I can't imagine how hard the anti-Bayern lobby inside Germany will push to get his head after that recent elimination.
It's very improbable that Flick will be sacked. To the point of certainty that he won't.
Don't see Klopp doing a national team gig yet, unless he wants a quieter job for a few years.
I think Klopp is a great manager, the second best in the world, but I don't think he's suited to international football. I think he needs to be working with players every day and moulding them exactly into what he needs for his system. Having a mish-mash of players from a whole host of different systems would be detrimental, IMO.
Herr Flick is in a bit of a bother.
Flick the fraud! hehe go on…
But but he won the xG!
Ironically that's all a coach can do, the rest is luck... Over the long term, in league football it'll work out. Obviously in tournament and cup football you only have very few games so coaches can do everything right and still lose...
Well yes he did. In regard to tactics he did a good job, proven by the xG stats. That's the claim you dispute, but that is correct.
However you are right that the collective including the manager failed, but that's not about tactics. Lack of finishing or stupid mistakes are mostly a lack of concentration or insecurities, so essentially psychologically.
So I would say he failed at building a resilient team, but he didn't fail tactically. If you want improvement you need to get a clear picture of the issues.
Would suck it this happened. Flick doesn't deserve the sack given this was his first tournament, there was very little time to prepare given it was in the middle of the season and they weren't horrible over the three games.
Should get atleast another shot with Euro '24 in Germany.
This job has Thomas tuchel all over it. Would be a good fit for them aswell.
I think people need to look at the squad before looking at the manager. Even though, I do not rate Hansi Flick that highly, there is so much a manager can do with the players available.
A poor defence and a lack of striker does not help.
I do not think he should be sacked, another tournament should be given to him.
I'm a big fan of Flicks work during that breakout season for Bayern. Played some of the best football I have seen from these modern set of coaches of the last 10 years. Hope he doesn't end up in the league at one of the rivals. I think Germany played well in parts this WC but wasted chances. No established striker has been what's undone them, Spain were in a similar boat before Morata was substituted on in one of their games.
Agreed, they can take home the xTrophy for xWinning the xTournament.
Unfortunately that's not a real trophy so he actually won feck all.
Edit: they will be significantly worse under Tuchel. Flick is a better coach than him, just not suited to this job.
It'd be a shame for Tuchel if he took the Germany job. He's a top coach - I'm sure a top European club would rather take him on.
If I was him Euros at home in 18 months’ time would sound more tempting than a club job. Club jobs will still be there after the Euros.
I guess - I'm not saying international football is 'easier' per se, but if I were a top coach (which I believe he is) I'd want to stay in club football for as long as possible.
Germany has played well in this World Cup. It is the only team that has been far superior to Japan, neither Spain nor Croatia were able to impose their game against them.
The lack of success in front of goal and defensive errors has meant that they are eliminated.
Processes take time. I would give him until Euro 2024.
The lack of success in front of goal and defensive errors has meant that they are eliminated.
Processes take time. I would give him until Euro 2024.
For some periods. Terrible in others.
Tuchel's perfect for it. Just the right amount of interaction without souring relations people around him. That's been his downfall in his last 3 clubs.
This again - xG isn't nonsense. That's like people closing their eyes and ears 10 years ago and saying all the pressing stuff was nonsense because it was a change they didn't like. A coach can only influence the team play up until the final touches. A system is designed to increase the quality and frequency of chances and reduce chances against. Germany wasn't great at the 2nd part (not terrible but not very good either), but they were by a big distance the best in the world Cup in creation, despite being in a tough group. They just didn't finish when it mattered and were punished.
Following the xG and not just a bad trend of results/luck is a big reason why Brighton stuck with Graham Potter and their fortunes naturally turned around.
Tuchel would be a lovely choice. He'd clearly come in for 18months only so no need to play nice and pure focus on the tourney.
He can be pragmatic which you absolutely need as a German coach nowadays, it's one of the clear downsides of Flick who seemed at Bayern and now on the NT not to be able to overcome his ideology. His one mad run in that crazy covid season, while also benefitting from coming in after Kovac, covers up a lot of inconsistencies in his coaching.
He can be pragmatic which you absolutely need as a German coach nowadays, it's one of the clear downsides of Flick who seemed at Bayern and now on the NT not to be able to overcome his ideology. His one mad run in that crazy covid season, while also benefitting from coming in after Kovac, covers up a lot of inconsistencies in his coaching.