I read an Italian woman on the bridge had a compound leg fracture. There must have been some horrific sights after the carnage. Credit to the medics coping with that.
Gun shots outside Parliament: Police shoot assailant following car attack on Westminster Bridge
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Do you have any evidence of this? Specifically in the UK?
Cheers. Given the state of this thread, I'm wary that even genuine questions are taken as slights!
So IS claimed that the guy was their warrior (whom they couldn't name for almost a day) and when cops finally put a name to him, they were like "Yeah!! Thats the guy. Our man"
Yes, that's exactly why I'm here. Your almost Trumpesque fake accusations designed to divert attention from your own crazy thread from last year. It was a reference to Dwayne's post, and admittedly it was probably a bit mean. It has nothing to do with your religion, it was more based on your post which seemed to sneer at the general intelligence of caf posters despite your belief in often debunked conspiracy theories.I resent your accusation though.
How dare you accuse me of "muslim bashing"
We should make up a fake terror event and when they claim responsibility we say, actually, dudes, that never happened.
Sandals' wifi has blocked it, saying it's cos of 'hate speech/inciting violence'. That's me on the watchlist now!Now we are finally getting closer to the nub of the problem. You cant examine terrorism in the west without first recognising western state warfare in Middle East first.
In fact, perhaps the 40 innocent Syrian civilians recklessly murdered by Western soldiers on Tuesday 21st WERE THE TRIGGER for yesterdays attack? Would make sense to me.
Honestly I have not. I hear lots of moral indignation but nothing beyond that.
I'd take anything Fearless says with a very large pinch of salt, from his previous antics in the CE.
It's a useless link anyway, sensationalism at its best. The majority of the attacks are listed in war zones e.g Iraq, Syria so misinterpretation of statistics really.
Sandals are censoring what I read though! Down with luxury hotels.
Great post and exactly my train of thought although I had neither the eloquence or patience to express it in such a way.
Going out on a limb here but this isn't the first time that Sandals wifi has recoiled at your online depravity, is it Jips?
Which is where the UK Government is currently at. So they accept yesterday's actions as collateral damage. Whats so hard to accept that?
I was providing a solution to help stop it. And I'm being vilified for providing a solution. Thats fine, This is a tough uncomfortable subject so I have no problem with that, but I expect other solutions being put forward if somebody wants to critique this opinion.
We had one proposal which is the forced expulsion of muslims from UK, but then no follow up on how that should happen.
If you're gonna whinge about muslims, then tell what you want done about it.
My first time at a Sandals. Shangri-La may have blocked a few risque links though!I'm curious - how do you explain Al Shabab or Boko Haram or Bangladesh extremists who go out of their way to target non-Muslims?
Spot on.
I'm not sure about that first part. Terrorism as we know it started at the Munich Olympics in '72. Other organizations soon adopted the tactic of using violent means to achieve political ends.
Also not sure how the US bombing civilians results in a terror attack against the UK Parliament but as you say these perpetrators usually aren't right in the head.
So you propose that we massively invest in extreme security apparatus (which massively curtail an individuals freedoms) for around 200 years (around the time its took to normalise mockery and abuse towards the Christians in Europe). And events like yesterday are regrettable but there is nothing we can do about it.
Beyond laudable philosophy, you've not proposed anything that changes the status quo.
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Saud funded around 6% of UK mosques, I can't remember where I read that, but it was on a reputable site, I don't do conspiracy stuff. They have spent much more in Germany, I believe there was a motion by German politicians to block some of the spend, not sure what the result was.
A good overview of just how much money they have spent pushing wahhabism can be found on this huff post article, although it only talks of general expenditure.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yousaf-butt-/saudi-wahhabism-islam-terrorism_b_6501916.html
I'd quite like to travel ban Nige (announced when he's abroad, of course.)
The 'Muslims' who commit these terrorist crimes put 'faith' above nationality. They take the religious 'brotherhood' much further than 99.9% of other muslims. And so in his head, he is fighting for his highest cause. Quite nuts, but that's his reality. Perhaps because he experienced deep trauma in his relationship with his own family.
And its this emotional imbalance that ISIS ruthlessly exploit to create their caliphate and commit terrorist crimes.
As to your first point, surely you recognise how western atrocities during the illegal Iraq war provided the conceptual framework for ISIS?
Hmm? What posts / attitude is that? I'm honestly not sure what you're referring to
.I completely agree, on both counts. On your first point, Charlie Brooker, in his program Newswipe, covered the issue of rolling news coverage in response to tragedies of this sort (in this case, the 2009 Winnenden school shooting):
I resent your accusation though.
How dare you accuse me of "muslim bashing"
Because its something you've done before - the accusation stands.
And as far as Im aware: this thread is not about 9/11 and more than 50% of US citizens also believe it was an inside job. I may be wrong, but that does not make me 'crazy' as you suggest. So in fact, its you trying to derail, not me. So stop trolling.
Freedom of speech doesn't need to be used respectfully. Freedom of speech isn't something you're handed as a reward for beeing a good boy. It's yours already and you're free to use it as you want, respectfully or not. It wasn't a problem in most parts of Europe until muslims started making it a problem of violence.
They don't become violent because they feel emotionally injured, they become violent to opress thought they don't like. It's not about what they don't want to hear, it's about what they don't want to have said at all.
I want to keep an open mind to the idea that people should be able to avoid beeing offended within reasonable limits, but that's about how and when freedom of speech is used. We can't submit to religious control of speech, that's giving up on Western civilization.
Yep. I can agree with most of that. Is the disconnect that normal Muslims get that they don't need to defend their beliefs through violent retaliation? Like if God is so powerful he doesn't need you to kill infidels on his behalf?
I see the formation of ISIS a bit differently. Terrorists from the ME were using their religion to justify bombings, kidnappings and hijackings long before ISIS came to the fore; well before 1991, even.
Hmm? What posts / attitude is that? I'm honestly not sure what you're referring to
Don't worry Akshay, he ignores my posts too.
He's good at ignorance. Really good.
I don't want to change the legal status quo (if anything I want stronger protection of freedom of speech in Europe). I am against any massive build-up of the security apparatus and I am very much against reducing FoS protection. The legal framework and the institutional capabilities are fine. We need cultural change how we react to these incidents and we need to stop being so sensitive when ideas that we hold are getting ridiculed/criticised. The state can't mandate these things so.
This is a good read. And, in a way, a very accurate summary of the path this thread has taken. For which I blame myself as much as anyone else.
Wahhabism/Salafism is indeed is big problem, and should be opposed everywhere. Its most dangerous contribution to the variety of Islamist currents floating around is intolerant sectarianism which has helped fuel what I would call a genocidal anti-Shi'a sentiment across the Sunni world.
However IMO its appeal is more a product than a cause of the general malaise in the Islamic world which is producing many of these problems. In terms of the jihadi problem specifically, it is the fusion of Wahhabism/Salafism with the revolutionary Islamism of the Qutbian wing of the Muslim Brotherhood which has produced groups like al Qaeda and ISIS. With regard to their anti-Western political agenda and obsession with an Islamic State and restoration of the caliphate, that is a product of the Brotherhood's contribution to the fusion.
Basically, the problem runs a lot deeper than Wahhabism and the foreign policy of Saudi Arabia. Nevertheless, they need to be addressed.
Thank you!
99.9% of Muslims either dont care, will use peaceful means of protest or believe God will take care of it. I fall into the last 2 categories. Like I'm trying to do in this thread.
99.5% of Muslims also dont understand why 0.05% get so emotionally affected, from which a tiny few feel the need to react through violent terrorism. Its as abhorrent to me and 99.5% of others as it is to you and others. We are all on the same side.
Sadly the problem exists. And if you want to stop it, you need to do something about it. The Muslim community does more to help solve this problem than anyone else in the UK. And yet we continue be accused for the problem by many. Its incredibly tiresome and sometimes we feel there is not reward so we should just stop bothering.
I'm merely providing one solution (in the knowledge that there are no others).
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Changing the status quo for something much worse isn't really proposing a solution it is escalating a problem.
Having worked so long and hard on this you will have an idea of the draft law you want to introduce to stop people offending Muslims and save us all.
Let the cafe have a look at it will you so we can tell if it is workable. Also what punishment will you apply to the many freedom of speech activists who get themselves arrested defying the sammsky law.
Kinell.
Not something I'm aware of doing. If you want to pm me how I've done it or post my muslim bashing in one of the other threads (this one's probably too far derailed by now so maybe even here) then feel free.