Really? Did you read the article? I feel very sorry for the kid and to think he'll be in prison for the majority of his life for something like this does not feel like justice to me.
Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
- Start date
Really? Did you read the article? I feel very sorry for the kid and to think he'll be in prison for the majority of his life for something like this does not feel like justice to me.
Yes I did. I can understand the law being in place but putting aside the appeal to emotion, does his crime deserve 55 years in jail?
He committed unarmed burglary. What happened afterwards is tragic and I don't blame the homeowner either but I'd argue that a state should be making use of it's citizens in a productive way so they can contribute to society not locking them up for whats basically their entire life. Isn't the prison term for first degree murder something like 25 to life? I find it crazy that this kid could have shot someone and killed them and received a lighter sentence than whats basically a robbery gone wrong.
In your version of justice how long should this kid serve? I would say somewhere in the 4-10 years range.
You said it was a dumb and broad interpretation of the law but you don't really feel sorry for the kid. I asked why and you've responded with snark.
If you think he's being unjustly sentenced why wouldn't you feel sorry for him?
If you think he's being unjustly sentenced why wouldn't you feel sorry for him?
That was interesting. what on earth just happened?!Nothing of importance
Did he delete his posts?
Not in New Jersey
Charging criminals with murder if someone dies as a result of their crime they commit might be tempting e.g. armed gang rob a bank and kill a teller resulting in all getting charged with murder and not just the one who pulled the trigger, this interpretation is downright insane.
Last edited:
Don’t know if this has been posted but the man talks sense.
Fair enoughI think @Wibble has posted that about seven times
Colorado Pushes For Concealed Guns In K-12 Schools
http://www.npr.org/2015/02/27/389245938/colorado-pushes-for-concealed-guns-in-k-12-schools
http://www.npr.org/2015/02/27/389245938/colorado-pushes-for-concealed-guns-in-k-12-schools
Excellent, further reduce restrictions on guns, just what America needs.
The premise being that the existence of gun free zones makes said zones easy targets for those who intend to cause mass casualties. There is merit to this...however...
I'm not sure if it will work as a deterrent, mostly because I don't even think there's much of a threat to begin with. Mag-locks and key fobs on all interior and exterior doors would be a better place to begin.
I'm not sure if it will work as a deterrent, mostly because I don't even think there's much of a threat to begin with. Mag-locks and key fobs on all interior and exterior doors would be a better place to begin.
Does that include students?
Unlikely since most would be too young to obtain a carry permit.
Ah alright, that's good to know. What a clusterfeck that would've been.
Indeed. Recess would never be the same.
Begin the countdown until a teacher in Colorado shoots a student over a small discipline issue. Or some other incident happens caused directly by this law if it passes.
Wonder if in these polls they bothered to ask teachers if they'd be ok carrying and using a gun? After serious training of course. And yes, it wouldn't be long until a teacher shoots a colleague, parent or student. Then the conversation will switch to arming parents and kids to prevent that.
It's completely insane, I can't get over that decision to charge him for murder because his friend was killed by the home owner. It is incredible.
Last edited by a moderator:
If everyone was armed, just think how few shootings there would be.
Right! And if someone does go crazy, then imagine how easy it would be to kill them back if you have a gun yourself!If everyone was armed, just think how few shootings there would be.
Right! And if someone does go crazy, then imagine how easy it would be to kill them back if you have a gun yourself!
For sure. We would never have any mass shootings because someone with a gun would always be nearby to take out the shooter.
Anyone nearby would assume the last person to shoot was the gunman, so it would just spiral out of control until everyone is dead.
I suppose the logic would work as long as everyone who was armed bought into logic of deadly force and when to use it. Trouble is there are also nutters in society who would bend and break the rules as they see fit. But yeah, if everyone were a rule of law android, it would definitely work.
It's not even just nutters. What about people who can't control their temper? How many people would just shoot someone after an escalation if that was an option at the time? It happens every day already and that is without everyone being armed. It would make for a very nervous world.
Not if one of the shooters was a baby who'd accidentally blown his mother's head off. Who'd shoot a baby? So have a baby with access to his mother's loaded gun to stop it spiraling out of control.
I think @Wibble has posted that about seven times
I did? I only remember once but it is the sort of thing I'd do. It is brilliant.
The only answer is for fetuses to be armed so they could take the baby out before they shoot the mother.
Involves a man with a gun but probably goes well beyond simple gun control - this guy has probable psychological issues.
The man allegedly tracked the dogs down and dispatched his own version of justice, and without any probable cause. He'll claim protecting his livestock and/or property of course. Sick bastard.
I've seen the images - sickening.
(Exert)
A volunteer firefighter in Royce City, Texas, has been forced to resign after he killed two dogs and callously boasted about it by posting a photo of their lifeless bodies on Facebook.
Tim Conatser claims he killed the two Labradors after warning their owner, his neighbor, to keep them away from his livestock.
The incident has enraged animal lovers worldwide and now the owner of the dead animals – a black dog called Gordo and a yellow lab called Spike - is denying that Conatser ever approached him to complain about them.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-shot-attacking-livestock.html#ixzz3TBjMAQ00
(Exert)
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/02/26/...dogs-shot-by-firefighter-attacking-livestock/
HUNT COUNTY (CBSDFW.COM) – A followup on the story of a Facebook picture showing two dead dogs, apparently killed by a North Texas volunteer firefighter. A friend had said the man was protecting his livestock, but investigators now say that’s not true. (Read more)
The man allegedly tracked the dogs down and dispatched his own version of justice, and without any probable cause. He'll claim protecting his livestock and/or property of course. Sick bastard.
I've seen the images - sickening.
(Exert)
A volunteer firefighter in Royce City, Texas, has been forced to resign after he killed two dogs and callously boasted about it by posting a photo of their lifeless bodies on Facebook.
Tim Conatser claims he killed the two Labradors after warning their owner, his neighbor, to keep them away from his livestock.
The incident has enraged animal lovers worldwide and now the owner of the dead animals – a black dog called Gordo and a yellow lab called Spike - is denying that Conatser ever approached him to complain about them.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-shot-attacking-livestock.html#ixzz3TBjMAQ00
(Exert)
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/02/26/...dogs-shot-by-firefighter-attacking-livestock/
HUNT COUNTY (CBSDFW.COM) – A followup on the story of a Facebook picture showing two dead dogs, apparently killed by a North Texas volunteer firefighter. A friend had said the man was protecting his livestock, but investigators now say that’s not true. (Read more)
That stuff happens a lot. I love dogs but people have a bad habit of letting them roam and insisting they couldn't possibly do anything wrong. This type of dog owner is a dick.
And then they let them do this next to a property owned by someone who thinks firearms are good at solving problems and also believes in teaching others "hard lessons". This type of person is a dick, too.
So what we have are cnuts being cnuts but they're not man enough to take each other on and the poor dogs are left holding the bag, or dead as in this case.
America in a nutshell, all personal freedom no personal responsibility.
And then they let them do this next to a property owned by someone who thinks firearms are good at solving problems and also believes in teaching others "hard lessons". This type of person is a dick, too.
So what we have are cnuts being cnuts but they're not man enough to take each other on and the poor dogs are left holding the bag, or dead as in this case.
America in a nutshell, all personal freedom no personal responsibility.
It also makes any altercation potentially deadly. Imagine you get in a minor tussle with some guy over some issue or other, and during the course of your handbags/shoving match you notice he's carrying a concealed firearm, and then he notices that you've noticed his firearm... suddenly you could both find yourselves engaged in a life and death struggle, with each man assuming that the first one to draw the weapon will use it (and then in turn feeling justified in using it themselves in self-defence, should they be the one that gets hold of the gun).
Er...let's try not to resort to "minor tussles" perhaps?
This petty violent streak we insist on maintaining is precisely why there is an over saturation of guns in America. Be civilized, people!
This petty violent streak we insist on maintaining is precisely why there is an over saturation of guns in America. Be civilized, people!
Lots of liberal Brits in here scared of big bad guns. (Full disclosure - I'm a Brit who's about to become a proud American citizen)
In an ideal world there wouldn't be guns. But that's the problem with left-wing idealists - they mean well but this isn't an ideal world so their idealistic views don't always translate to the real world. The UK banned hand guns before they irreversibly permeated society. There are so many guns in circulation now in the US that banning them would be futile (aside from the fact that some people that would literally revolt). Some good folks would surrender their firearms as the law mandated, some wouldn't, but criminals definitely wouldn't. Guns are not a factor of most crime in the UK and that's great. Not the case in the US. If someone tries to invade my home and threatens me and my loved ones it is likely they will be armed and so will I. I'll happily shoot to kill and not think twice about it before they harm me or my family. Pretty much that simple. Oh, and there's also this whole thing called the second amendment.
Unfortunately the US goes overboard on lots of prison sentences. The rate of incarceration is out of control, specifically regarding drug crimes. On the other hand, the UK is FAR too lax with its sentencing. Like with many social issues it is my opinion that the middle ground between the US and the UK would be optimal.
In an ideal world there wouldn't be guns. But that's the problem with left-wing idealists - they mean well but this isn't an ideal world so their idealistic views don't always translate to the real world. The UK banned hand guns before they irreversibly permeated society. There are so many guns in circulation now in the US that banning them would be futile (aside from the fact that some people that would literally revolt). Some good folks would surrender their firearms as the law mandated, some wouldn't, but criminals definitely wouldn't. Guns are not a factor of most crime in the UK and that's great. Not the case in the US. If someone tries to invade my home and threatens me and my loved ones it is likely they will be armed and so will I. I'll happily shoot to kill and not think twice about it before they harm me or my family. Pretty much that simple. Oh, and there's also this whole thing called the second amendment.
The crime doesn't deserve 55 years in jail but the law itself makes a ton of sense. He was the proximate cause for the other's kid's death. The law is in place so that if someone robs a bank, for example, and draws a gun and the guard opens fire and injures the robber but a stray bullet of his hits a bank customer then the robber is held responsible. But-for him robbing he bank the customer never would have been shot and killed. If you try to evade the cops and another car swerves out of your way and hits a pedestrian, you're responsible for the death because the pedestrian wouldn't have been hit if not for your criminal act. Makes a ton of sense to me even if the sentencing was overdone.
Unfortunately the US goes overboard on lots of prison sentences. The rate of incarceration is out of control, specifically regarding drug crimes. On the other hand, the UK is FAR too lax with its sentencing. Like with many social issues it is my opinion that the middle ground between the US and the UK would be optimal.
Yeah, that what some people call "Canada".